* FOUND * Stolen Boat - from Mercia Marina

[steven wilkinson]

I thought he was just noticed with keys (which may or may not have been the right ones), and then he was off with the boat fairly quickly. He might have had other ways of getting in and starting the boat.

 

and this is after sussing the boat out at Fradley (possibly)

[Guest]

I thought he was just noticed with keys (which may or may not have been the right ones), and then he was off with the boat fairly quickly. He might have had other ways of getting in and starting the boat.

The key to start most Narrowboats is readily available on eBay, I got a couple of spares from there for our boat.

 

You just need to know what to search for.

[MtB]

 

If they do, it is only a fuel shut-off solenoid. Shutting off the fuel is the only way to stop ANY diesel engine, I believe.

 

Edit: Or decompressing the cylinders!

 

 

Or stopping the air supply. But that's tricky!

[Yank on the Cut]

The bit I don't understand is that apparently the thief had keys to the boat, was observed unlocking it, starting it up and driving off.

Whether he had a set of the boat's actual keys, or as money have posited on here he used a lock bumping technique and then a common engine key, we do not yet know. What we do know was that he was very plausible in that he walked straight to the boat in question, after he had enquired from a moorer the location of the pontoon, and when asked said he was taking the boat away for work on the engine as it was still under warranty.

This should worry all because it is the behaviour of an accomplished thief skillfully executing out a well thought out plan.

 

His plan was thwarted only by the actions of boaters determined to find him.

[Laurie Booth]

 

 

Or stopping the air supply. But that's tricky!

Or remove the engine !!

[Grassman]

I don't think stealing boats is going to become commonplace, however I think these two recent thefts will have made the majority of the boating community more vigilant.

 

Most people's phones have an integral camera and I will now take a photo of anybody I see taking the boat out of our marina if I knew they weren't the owners, no matter how plausible their reasons seem.

 

If they were to object then that would increase my suspicions and I'd get the marina to contact the owners.

[Tonka]

Whether he had a set of the boat's actual keys, or as money have posited on here he used a lock bumping technique and then a common engine key, we do not yet know. What we do know was that he was very plausible in that he walked straight to the boat in question, after he had enquired from a moorer the location of the pontoon, and when asked said he was taking the boat away for work on the engine as it was still under warranty.

This should worry all because it is the behaviour of an accomplished thief skillfully executing out a well thought out plan.

 

His plan was thwarted only by the actions of boaters determined to find him.

 

As the boat is a cruiser stern he did not have to go into the cabin a) to turn the batteries on . Most cruisers have a battery switch on the stern deck and ( to start the engine as again the panel is not in the cabin

He could have gained access to the cabin later when not in plain sight

Edited August 9, 2016 by Tonka

[RLWP]

A fuel tap can be turned back on by someone that knows to look. A small toggle switch can be hidden anywhere

 

It does depend on the engine - if you run our BMC dry you are into half an hour of bleeding

 

Modern engines have a stop solenoid, it would be possible to fit a switch to either switch that out (if it is a power to run solenoid), or energise it when the ignition is switched on (if it is a power to stop solenoid)

 

Richard

[mross]

For engines with an energise-to-stop solenoid, I quite liked the idea of a randomly timed pulse to simulate a fuel problem. The solenoid would probably fail through overheating if 'permanently' energised.

 

But I prefer some method of securing the rudder as this would make the boat hard to tow. It could be defeated with a grinder but that would be noisy.

[zenataomm]

 

 

Or stopping the air supply. But that's tricky!

 

Decompressing a running engine doesn't always stop it and can damage exhaust valves and seats.

 

Stopping the air supply on a running engine, can result in a runaway engine resulting in fly wheels self destroying under centrifugal force and major moving parts welding themselves together due to loss of lubricating oil.

[mross]

Stopping the air supply on a running engine, can result in a runaway engine resulting in fly wheels self destroying under centrifugal force and major moving parts welding themselves together due to loss of lubricating oil.

 

Well, that would deter the thief.

 

 

 

How can blocking the air make an engine runaway? Some marine engines had a damper fitted in the air supply as a safety device in case a lube oil leak sprayed into the air intake.

Edited August 9, 2016 by mross

[Tiller1]

It seems to me that either the thief was incredibly confident, or took the boat in the belief it was legitimate.

 

Only very few people will have that degree of confidence so I agree boaters shouldn't overreact to this incident.

 

To be so casual seems to indicate that the thief knew there were no other security measures fitted to the boat. How would the thief have reacted if he couldn't have started the engine, or struggled to get in?

[cuthound]

Decompressing a running engine doesn't always stop it and can damage exhaust valves and seats.

 

Stopping the air supply on a running engine, can result in a runaway engine resulting in fly wheels self destroying under centrifugal force and major moving parts welding themselves together due to loss of lubricating oil.

Quite the reverse. I have specified loads of standby generators to be fitted with these to give protection against a runaway engine.

 

http://www.chalwyn.com/products/air-intake-shut-down-valves

 

Usually they work by the increased volume of air being ingested by the overspending engine overcoming a spring, which causes a flap to drop a d seal the air inlet, but they do electric ones, which possibly could be modifed to stay closed?

 

However they are not cheap.

 

Edited to correct the predictive text gobbledygook.

Edited August 9, 2016 by cuthound

[MtB]

Discharging CO2 fire extinguisher into the air inlet is another way. supposedly. I've never tried it.

 

It takes away the oxygen so combustion ceases. I suspect the fire extinguisher would run out before the engine doing 8,000rpm slowed to a total stop. If this happens, the engine will just pick up again and resume running away.

[cuthound]

Discharging CO2 fire extinguisher into the air inlet is another way. supposedly. I've never tried it.

 

It takes away the oxygen so combustion ceases. I suspect the fire extinguisher would run out before the engine doing 8,000rpm slowed to a total stop. If this happens, the engine will just pick up again and resume running away.

The manufacturers of air shut off valves don't recommend CO2 being used to stop thecengine. Apparently the sudden temperature difference can cause damage, valves shattering, turbos exploding etc. Not sure if they say this to sell more shut off valves, but I think a CO2 based system would be easier to engineer than a proper air shut off valve, so it may be true.

[Graham Davis]

It seems to me that either the thief was incredibly confident, or took the boat in the belief it was legitimate.

 

Only very few people will have that degree of confidence so I agree boaters shouldn't overreact to this incident.

 

To be so casual seems to indicate that the thief knew there were no other security measures fitted to the boat. How would the thief have reacted if he couldn't have started the engine, or struggled to get in?

 

Really?

Thieves can be very confident if they see lots of £'s at the end of it.

Back in the days that that the 300Tdi was introduced into the Discovery I knew of at least 3 cases in Birmingham where the vehicle was stolen off the drive of the owners house in broad daylight. Thieves turned up with a sign-written flat bed recovery truck with lots of flashing lights, wearing hi-vis and being very obvious. When asked by neighbours they said it had broken down and was being taken in for repair. No-one questioned it until the owners came home that night!!

Of the 3 I knew about only one was "recovered", and that was found in a container about to be loaded onto a ship a couple of days later. The others were presumed to have been stripped.

[gazza]

Quite the reverse. I have specified loads of standby generators to be fitted with these to give protection against a runaway engine.

 

http://www.chalwyn.com/products/air-intake-shut-down-valves

 

Usually they work by the increased volume of air being ingested by the overspending engine overcoming a spring, which causes a flap to drop a d seal the air inlet, but they do electric ones, which possibly could be modifed to stay closed?

 

However they are not cheap.

 

Edited to correct the predictive text gobbledygook.

We have several gensets so equipped.

A mandatory requirement along with dirty great spark arrestors to work in places like Esso Fawley.

 

As you say, not cheap!

[zenataomm]

 

Well, that would deter the thief.

 

 

 

How can blocking the air make an engine runaway? Some marine engines had a damper fitted in the air supply as a safety device in case a lube oil leak sprayed into the air intake.

 

Suddenly starving a fast running diesel of oxygen creates a vacuum within the cylinder during the induction stroke.

Nature abhors a vacuum consequently the air in the crankcase (along with lubricating oil) can be forced up between the piston and cylinder wall into the combustion chamber.

Once there is negative pressure within the crankcase the oil seals at the ends of the crankshaft can be sucked in enough to allow fresh air in and away we go.

The engine will exceed its maximum operating RPM before it has consumed all of it's lubricating oil and will start to self destruct, all of the time getting hotter and hotter.

Recovery is unlikely.

 

This has been covered before on this forum.

When I trained at Lister in the early 80s they showed a film of a single cylinder stationary being deliberately set up like this. As it converted itself into scrap the film froze we were all asked to explain what had happened. We first saw them clamp a seal over the air inlet and squash the fuel pipes flat. We all got it wrong.

 

Clearly the more worn the engine is the more likely it is to occur.

 

I wouldn't risk it.

[Hawkmoth]

Don't most diesels have an electric cut out to turn them off?

Yes, but it requires the voltage to actually stop the engine. Once started only fuel cutoff will stop it. Someone I helped on the cut once had this problem, the engine wouldn't stop and it turned out to be a failed alternator and flat battery. Engine wouldn't stop.

[gazza]

Yes, but it requires the voltage to actually stop the engine. Once started only fuel cutoff will stop it. Someone I helped on the cut once had this problem, the engine wouldn't stop and it turned out to be a failed alternator and flat battery. Engine wouldn't stop.

Operating by hand the stop control lever the solenoid is connected to works well....

[Tiller1]

 

Really?

Thieves can be very confident if they see lots of £'s at the end of it.

Back in the days that that the 300Tdi was introduced into the Discovery I knew of at least 3 cases in Birmingham where the vehicle was stolen off the drive of the owners house in broad daylight. Thieves turned up with a sign-written flat bed recovery truck with lots of flashing lights, wearing hi-vis and being very obvious. When asked by neighbours they said it had broken down and was being taken in for repair. No-one questioned it until the owners came home that night!!

Of the 3 I knew about only one was "recovered", and that was found in a container about to be loaded onto a ship a couple of days later. The others were presumed to have been stripped.

That does sound quite a cheeky way to steal a car. Stealing a 50 foot narrowboat in broad daylight in front of fellow boat owners has to be more risky than a stealing a car from someone's drive when they are not in.

 

I see the incident has got lots of people on the forum worried about security. May I ask whether you are considering any security updates to your boat?

[Hawkmoth]

Operating by hand the stop control lever the solenoid is connected to works well....

I know, that's what I did to stop it. I'd never given any thought up to that point that one required power to shut off the engine.

Bob

[gazza]

I know, that's what I did to stop it. I'd never given any thought up to that point that one required power to shut off the engine.

Bob

Sorry, I misread full cutoff for fuel cock, should have gone to specsavers

[Albion]

Yes, but it requires the voltage to actually stop the engine. Once started only fuel cutoff will stop it. Someone I helped on the cut once had this problem, the engine wouldn't stop and it turned out to be a failed alternator and flat battery. Engine wouldn't stop.

I've certainly had that on a Beta engine. The starter alternator/water pump fan belt failed and left a friend's boat engine running but with no skin tank water circulation. The engine was getting hotter and hotter and could not be shut down. Luckily I was boating along side him and after he moored quickly was able to manually operate the stop solenoid lever on the injection pump.

Roger

[mross]

If your engine only has an electric stop solenoid it's quite easy to add a cable for manual operation like a car choke cable. Position it where it can be operated in case of an engine fire (which might burn the electric wiring and stop the solenoid working). I've done this mod to a few boats and it was cheap to do.