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Still no joy


Benno 1688

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So you still have air entering the system or a fuel blockage. That's what the revving up is telling you as long as you have ensured the regulating valve is clean and free (as per another Tony's advice).

 

have you done what Bizzard suggests, that is dismantle and closely inspect all parts of the fuel filter for cracks, twisted or misplaced sealing rings or even the incorrect sealing ring. Where did you get the centre bolt O ring from? Unless it came from a CAV/Lucas/Delphi agent or branded filter box it may still be the wrong one and is it diesel resistant.

 

Are you sure your filter head bolt is supposed to be sealed by an O ring? Its easy to tell by looking at the top of the hole the bolt goes through. If it has a shallow taper at the top it needs an O ring. If it is flat with a machined "disk" on the filter head it needs a soft washer.

 

The fact that it now idles properly but starts to give problems when you rev it could be taken as indication a blockage in the fuel supply but as the transfer pump will starts to increase its suction as you rev it then it could just as well be sucking air through a faulty joint or badly assembled system component like the filters and any water traps.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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Been down to the boat this morning done the stop disconnected the cable and checked it I'm happy that it's ok. Put a new non return valve on the filter and a new rubber o ring on the filter bolt. Ran it for about five minutes and it started to rev up again. It ticks over with no problems as soon as I put some revs on it starts.

 

Looking back through all your posts, I can't see anything to confirm that you have done anything more than loosen and then re-tighten the [larger] hexagon fitting on the transfer pump end plate, under which is situated a pressure regulating valve and a very fine gauze strainer that Tony Brooks referred to in post #4.

 

If either the gauze is clogged up with gum and/or muck, and /or the regulating valve is not operating freely and correctly for the same reason, then you will get just the symptoms your engine is displaying.

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So how do I check that the regulator valve is operating freely, please.

 

The other Tony put some links to CAV Publications re. DPA injector pumps for you in post #6.

 

You will also need to check the fine nylon gauze strainer to make sure it's clean, and not clagged up with the same sort of gummy muck that can make the regulating valve stick. Depending on the the sort of muck that you will probably find in it, it may not be possible to clean it successfully, but new ones are obtainable in service/repair kits.

 

I would advise removing the endplate assembly from the transfer pump [ after first slackening the larger hexagon with the endplate still in situ, and all 4 x small retaining nuts/studs still tightened ] and then dismantling and cleaning the regulating valve and gauze somewhere where you'll be able to find all the small valve parts and springs that you'll probably drop whilst doing it.

Reassembly is a simple reversal of the dismantling process, and final tightening of the large hexagon fitting is done with the endplate back on the pump and immediately prior to reconnecting the 'fuel in' pipe from the lift pump.

 

As you will be dealing with internal components of the F.I. system, the utmost cleanliness in essential during reassembly.

Wash/rinse all parts, including any new stuff, in clean fuel and assemble wet and without wiping.

Edited by Tony Dunkley
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I have removed the gauze and the springs etc from the hexagon nut and cleaned the, although they were not that dirty. The engine is running much better with only the occasional surge but it's still not right. I think it's best that I take the pump off and take it to the local diesel specialist so they can sort it. I'm wary of doing it myself and as its a 1800 I would have to take all the injector pipes off if I was going to take the end plate off.

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I have also checked the filter housing, the.filter was a Delphi so I have used the rubber o ring that comes with it. Every thing appears to be in order. I did replace the filter housing last year as I learnt to my cost that they crack very easily if you are a bit heavy handed

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As a last resort before you remove the pump I'd try this wheese which I've done many times on diesel road vehicles in the past for similar problems. Get a bottle of ''diesel fuel system cleaner'' Redex, Wynns, a few companies make it and is available at motor factors, spares shops ect.

Remove the engines filter bowl empty out half of the fuel and top up with the cleaner, roughly 50/50 mix. Whack the filter bowl back on and start up on a highish throttle setting and keep it there for ten minutes or so to pump the cleaner through the system, injector pump. injectors and away to exhaust. The exhaust will be very clean whilst this is going through and will revert to the usual a little bluey haze when running back on neat diesel fuel. It often works and will also clean the injector nozzles.

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I have removed the gauze and the springs etc from the hexagon nut and cleaned the, although they were not that dirty. The engine is running much better with only the occasional surge but it's still not right. I think it's best that I take the pump off and take it to the local diesel specialist so they can sort it. I'm wary of doing it myself and as its a 1800 I would have to take all the injector pipes off if I was going to take the end plate off.

 

What exactly does 'etc' comprise ? . . . there are a number of small parts under the large hexagon fitting in the endplate, some of which are difficult to nigh on impossible to remove/re-assemble with the endplate in situ, . . . 2 x washers, 3 x springs, a plunger and a peg in a sleeve, the transfer pressure adjuster, and the small cylindrical nylon gauze filter.

The fact that the engine is now running better after the transfer pressure regulating valve assembly has been disturbed does suggest that the internals may be gummed up, and not operating correctly.

 

I'm baffled by your comment re. the injector pipes. You will have to remove all the injector pipes anyway, irrespective of whether you're just taking the endplate off the transfer pump or removing the complete injector pump.

 

It may help if you could post some photo's of the entire fuel system from tank to injectors, . . . there is another thread running at the moment on a BMC 1.5 [almost identical fuel system] that's behaving in a similar fashion to yours, and it is now evident, since a photo was posted, that the pipework has been messed about with in a way which will almost certainly induce similar problems.

Edited by Tony Dunkley
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Hi all many thanks for all your advice here are some photos, I really carnt believe that after all the money work and head scratching it came down to a four quid bottle of red x. It runs like a dream touch wood. Once again thanks for sharing your invaluable knowledge with me. Happy at lastpost-22783-0-32373000-1469636017_thumb.jpegpost-22783-0-63708300-1469636070_thumb.jpeg

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Where woul l fit the return. I guessing it comes off the banjo that the spill rail * connects to, do I need a longer banjo bolt and a barb fitting.

 

That's one way of doing it, and is in fact, how some 1.8's and, as far as I know, all, or most, 1.5's were piped up from the factory.

There is, however, the alternative of running the return pipe across the front of the engine, and back to the tank in tandem with the lift pump feed pipe, from either a double or a two way banjo on the leak-off connection of No.1 injector.

 

Your engine may be piped up like this already, but without a photo showing No.1 injector [timing case end], we can only guess.

 

The flexible pipe connections in the photo's are distinctly 'iffy' and need improving. It looks as though the flexible is just pushed over a plain pipe stub, . . . they need changing to a nozzle fitting plus clip.

 

* The term 'spill rail' is now frequently, and wrongly, used when referring to injector leak-off piping or rails. In the context of diesel Fuel Injection, 'spill' is something entirely different, and 'spill cut-off ' is a method for setting injection timing on engines equipped with single or multi-element jerk pumps instead of the DPA type of injector pump, such as fitted to your engine.

Edited by Tony Dunkley
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Yes, you can get double length banjo bolts with two horizontal holes in them.

 

I suggest you read and fully understand the requirements re the BSS and fuel hoses. A barbed fitting implies that you intend to use hose and I think the BSS does not allow worm drive hose clips. It needs to be a crimped sleeve on the hose (as I understand it). It also uses phrases like "minimum length" and specifies type of hose.

 

If yours is a middle level or sea boat then you only need to do as your insurance company asks, for all other inland waterways the BSS is mandatory.


 

That's one way of doing it, and is in fact, how some 1.8's and, as far as I know, all 1.5's were piped up from the factory.

There is, however, the alternative of running the return pipe across the front of the engine, and back to the tank in tandem with the lift pump feed pipe, from either a double or a two way banjo on the leak-off connection of No.1 injector.

 

Your engine may be piped up like this already, but without a photo showing No.1 injector [timing case end], we can only guess.

 

Good point.

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BSS compliant or not, I think I'd be fitting jubilee clips around those flexible hoses on that filter head immediately. Sort out the BSS compliance thereafter. At the moment it looks positively unsafe to my eyes - the hoses don't even appear to be pushed on very well. (Sorry to detract from the 2 Tonys' splendid fault finding assistance) :)

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That's a very good point and the hose on the feed into the filter could be a source of air leaks.

 

However while the OP is sorting it I think he might just as well fit BSS complaint hoses.

Absolutely Tony and, whilst you or I might, at the rate of the OP's progress to date, I suspect it'll be a fair few engine hours before that happens! In the meantime, for the price of a couple of hose clips and a couple of minutes work, he'll be a fair bit safer. Plus, at least two potential sources of air ingress will be crossed off the extensive list so it may still pay dividends even if he isn't running the engine other than for fault finding. It won't get fixed if it bursts into flames. ;)

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Hi it's not what it looks like I have not just pushed the hose onto cooper pipe, it is in fact bss standard hose with cooper pipe running all the way through it with the copper fittings on the end. It's a bit over the top but it is protection should the pipe ever rub against metal.

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You need to ensure that both the injector leak off pipe AND the return from the banjo on the filter returns to the tank. What order and how does not matter. I have seen the injector leak off pipe connected to the filter banjo with along banjo bolt in number two injector connecting the leak off pipe back to the tank. Why, I have no idea but it worked.

 

Air WILL collect in the top of the filter so you need to get rid of it so it, plus some fuel, is returned to the tan. by what route does not matter. You could use two pipes, one from the injectors and one from the filter but that is a waste of copper pipe and effort so combine them into one. Exactly how does not matter muc.

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I've been looking at some images on the net, some bmc engines appear to be plumbed into the fuel tank straight from the leak rail without going to the filter head. Is that what you are suggesting Tony.

 

No, . . . there MUST be a tank return/bleed-off connection from the top of the filter head in order to ensure that the system is being constantly purged of any air that may have got in, before it reaches the injector pump.

 

As long as there is a route for a fuel/air return from the top of the filter to the top of the fuel tank, it matters not whether it goes there direct or joins up, at some point, or any point, with the injector leak-off.

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That is hardly likely, is not a petrol engine. Even if you spray diesel on a hot exhaust manifold it normally just vaporises. its hard to ignite diesel, you normally need a wick.

Bit of dramatic licence there Tony (hence the wink). However, we also know that diesel can explode if it vaporises under pressure and since the OP mentioned in his first post that he'd replaced all the pipework, I was also wondering what the other joints were like. Still, it seems all is not as it appears in the photograph, and we're really seeing properly terminated copper pipe in a heavy rubber sheath. That being the case (and reassured that the OP is safe) it's time I stopped drawing the thread away from your sterling fault finding support! :D

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