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The Boat Behind You.......


Woodstock25

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I was 'that boat behind' and perhaps the original poster won't see this as he obviously has some problems with a serious and sedate conversation due to the daily problems of boating.

 

First off, I'd like to set some truths in the situations and locations. I first met the boat in question while I was waiting for my delivery next to the water point near the Ash Tree. If I saw him the previous day, I don't recall. He went past the water point, and then decided to reverse back to it (bumping my boat and causing a following boat to stop after coming around the bend from the bridge). Eventually my gas turned up, loaded, and as I went to pay the calorman the OP decided to set off again.

 

By the time I dropped my lines I could see I was going to catch them up shortly, and did so as I passed the Plum Tree. The tunnel/narrows there isn't a first come first served tunnel, if there is a boat in it coming the opposite direction you let it through, but even though there was a boat waiting at the other end (didn't know that BTW, you can't see) I continued to follow the OP into the narrows as normal operation dictates.

 

The OP had several places he could have pulled into the bank safely and easily but decided not to do so. I followed at about 70-90 foot, about my stopping distance at tick-over but we were going faster, maybe about 3.4 mph. A boat came the other direction in the narrow section before the sharp turn before Armitage Shanks, and the OP went to close to the bank hitting the bottom. He slammed it in reverse, and not having the space to maneuver due to the oncoming boat shouted for him to keep going. It's hard to communicate verbally over distance without it sounding angry, but if I swore I didn't mean too, and at worse would have been a 'bloody' just to push home how important it was otherwise I'd bump the boat up the backside. He obviously heard, and started moving forwards again.

 

I wasn't expecting to be able to overtake until reaching the deeper and wider bit near Shank's, so hung back. However the OP cut the corning into the bridge, and went straight on. I couldn't see that he hadn't made the corner, and again he was in reverse. Again I shouted, probably very likely with swear words this time, as I was already committed to going around the outside of the bend, and going astern would beach me on the shallow hard bottom on the outside of the bend. I continued my corner, and the OP put power on to complete the turn and move out of my way.

 

He pulled over once through the bridge, and I shouted (as it's all you can do to communicate over engines) that none of this would have happened if he'd let me in front when he first noticed me, and not to bloody cut corners especially into blind bridge holes (as seems to be the want these days).

 

People, please line up for bridges as soon as possible to make it far easier to get through, and even more important to get a good sightline!

 

I stopped to do diesel to a boat at Kings Bromley, and the OP passed again. I caught him back up at Wood End, as there is a paddle out queues were building quickly. I had lunch while waiting, but it seemed like there was no rush from anyone and went back to the lock to get it ready for myself. The OP left the lock, and I lifted the single gate paddle expecting the people from that boat to pull the gates shut. I had walked down to the other end of the lock before they made a move, but were quite happy to shout and scream that this CRT lady was counting boats for water usage, I explained that water was quite happily running down the bywash, and it would speed things up as the queue was now 4 boats, with room for two on the moorings as someone else decided it would be a good place to moor up. The gates did not bang about as the flow was not great, though appeared impressive from the gate.

 

Again, if I swore I apologise, but you really didn't help matters at all.

 

Mike

 

Well done for putting the other side.....I personally think everyone should try steering a deep draughted heavy boat to see just how different a beast they are. That...along with the lack of understanding about by washes etc and water flow is getting quite depressing just recently.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

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I was 'that boat behind' and perhaps the original poster won't see this as he obviously has some problems with a serious and sedate conversation due to the daily problems of boating.

 

First off, I'd like to set some truths in the situations and locations. I first met the boat in question while I was waiting for my delivery next to the water point near the Ash Tree. If I saw him the previous day, I don't recall. He went past the water point, and then decided to reverse back to it (bumping my boat and causing a following boat to stop after coming around the bend from the bridge). Eventually my gas turned up, loaded, and as I went to pay the calorman the OP decided to set off again.

 

By the time I dropped my lines I could see I was going to catch them up shortly, and did so as I passed the Plum Tree. The tunnel/narrows there isn't a first come first served tunnel, if there is a boat in it coming the opposite direction you let it through, but even though there was a boat waiting at the other end (didn't know that BTW, you can't see) I continued to follow the OP into the narrows as normal operation dictates.

 

The OP had several places he could have pulled into the bank safely and easily but decided not to do so. I followed at about 70-90 foot, about my stopping distance at tick-over but we were going faster, maybe about 3.4 mph. A boat came the other direction in the narrow section before the sharp turn before Armitage Shanks, and the OP went to close to the bank hitting the bottom. He slammed it in reverse, and not having the space to maneuver due to the oncoming boat shouted for him to keep going. It's hard to communicate verbally over distance without it sounding angry, but if I swore I didn't mean too, and at worse would have been a 'bloody' just to push home how important it was otherwise I'd bump the boat up the backside. He obviously heard, and started moving forwards again.

 

I wasn't expecting to be able to overtake until reaching the deeper and wider bit near Shank's, so hung back. However the OP cut the corning into the bridge, and went straight on. I couldn't see that he hadn't made the corner, and again he was in reverse. Again I shouted, probably very likely with swear words this time, as I was already committed to going around the outside of the bend, and going astern would beach me on the shallow hard bottom on the outside of the bend. I continued my corner, and the OP put power on to complete the turn and move out of my way.

 

He pulled over once through the bridge, and I shouted (as it's all you can do to communicate over engines) that none of this would have happened if he'd let me in front when he first noticed me, and not to bloody cut corners especially into blind bridge holes (as seems to be the want these days).

 

People, please line up for bridges as soon as possible to make it far easier to get through, and even more important to get a good sightline!

 

I stopped to do diesel to a boat at Kings Bromley, and the OP passed again. I caught him back up at Wood End, as there is a paddle out queues were building quickly. I had lunch while waiting, but it seemed like there was no rush from anyone and went back to the lock to get it ready for myself. The OP left the lock, and I lifted the single gate paddle expecting the people from that boat to pull the gates shut. I had walked down to the other end of the lock before they made a move, but were quite happy to shout and scream that this CRT lady was counting boats for water usage, I explained that water was quite happily running down the bywash, and it would speed things up as the queue was now 4 boats, with room for two on the moorings as someone else decided it would be a good place to moor up. The gates did not bang about as the flow was not great, though appeared impressive from the gate.

 

Again, if I swore I apologise, but you really didn't help matters at all.

 

Mike

 

Thanks for your take Mike. Earlier on I mentioned the balance of "arsiness". I will change it a bit, however by your own words you are condemned a bit. You need to remember that you are a "full time boater" and presumably, with your daily exposure, you have become reasonably good at it. However you should remember that these days the canals are primarily for leisure use and, more importantly, many people have less exposure and experience and are thus may not be as good at it as you are. That they are somewhat incompetent by your standards, is nevertheless no good reason to get arsey.

 

On the overtaking thing, there is no point in being up someone's arse when there is no immediate prospect of overtaking due to sharp bends etc. and yes, lots of folk aren't very good at steering a boat - but get over it!

 

As to the lock it does seem that you opened the top paddle fully with the bottom gates open and this can never be the right thing to do, even though we know that the paddle is fairly small on that lock. That is not the point, it is the impression generated that is the point.

 

In summary, you came across as a bit of an arse. So take that as a gift since it's not often that people really say what they think about you. Use the gift to improve your public's perception in the future.

 

I've been boating since the late 60s, am routinely gobsmacked by the incompetence of some, but know that if I let that show it only reflects badly on me. Not on them.

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Sometimes opening a top paddle is a necessity as the bottom gates will not stay closed without some water behind them. So sometimes it can be the correct action.

Stop making excuses for others! No it is never right to fully open a paddle before there has even been an attempt by the people at the other end to close the gates.

 

Mike has been shown to have become a bit out of order, on that day at least. Pretending he isn't, isn't going to help him in the long run.

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Stop making excuses for others! No it is never right to fully open a paddle before there has even been an attempt by the people at the other end to close the gates.

Mike has been shown to have become a bit out of order, on that day at least. Pretending he isn't, isn't going to help him in the long run.

I disagree......if you are boating on your own I've had to do this many times as the gates have swung fully open before you can get to draw a paddle......

 

I also find your reply a little sanctimonious to say the least.

 

Gareth

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I disagree......if you are boating on your own I've had to do this many times as the gates have swung fully open before you can get to draw a paddle......

I also find your reply a little sanctimonious to say the least.

Gareth

If you are boating on your own then as you say, sometimes it is necessary to crack a paddle in order to get the gates to stay shut.

 

However this bears no relation to a situation where there are people at one end yet to start closing the gates, and you at the other end decide to fully open the paddle to demonstrate how irritated you are by their slowness.

 

You find my post sanctimonious, I find yours a complete non-sequitur. Which is worse?

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Snip.........<I had walked down to the other end of the lock before they made a move>

 

Thanks for posting the other side of this story.

 

If you were at one end of the lock and you had time to walk to the other 'before they had made a move', I'm assuming to close the gates, and there was a queue of boats waiting, then this crew were just faffing about and wasting everyones time.

 

I'm sure i would have been pizzed orf had I been waiting to come through.

 

I like to think when we're out boating we work efficiently, there is much satisfaction in doing so.

 

Pity the OP seems to have flounced, I'd be interested in the details of the other incident he mentions.

Thanks for your take Mike. Earlier on I mentioned the balance of "arsiness". I will change it a bit, however by your own words you are condemned a bit. You need to remember that you are a "full time boater" and presumably, with your daily exposure, you have become reasonably good at it. However you should remember that these days the canals are primarily for leisure use and, more importantly, many people have less exposure and experience and are thus may not be as good at it as you are. That they are somewhat incompetent by your standards, is nevertheless no good reason to get arsey.

 

On the overtaking thing, there is no point in being up someone's arse when there is no immediate prospect of overtaking due to sharp bends etc. and yes, lots of folk aren't very good at steering a boat - but get over it!

 

As to the lock it does seem that you opened the top paddle fully with the bottom gates open and this can never be the right thing to do, even though we know that the paddle is fairly small on that lock. That is not the point, it is the impression generated that is the point.

 

In summary, you came across as a bit of an arse. So take that as a gift since it's not often that people really say what they think about you. Use the gift to improve your public's perception in the future.

 

I've been boating since the late 60s, am routinely gobsmacked by the incompetence of some, but know that if I let that show it only reflects badly on me. Not on them.

OK CWDFers.

 

Your starter for ten is to underline the part of the above that fits the following words........pot, kettle and black.

 

wink.png

 

And............If there was a queue of boats why wasn't the CaRT lady helping at the lock as well as counting boats?

Edited by Victor Vectis
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OK CWDFers.

 

Your starter for ten is to underline the part of the above that fits the following words........pot, kettle and black.

 

;)

If you have some insults to fling, at least be man enough to name them rather than just timidly implying that they might exist!

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You're own confirmation bais has already judged me as going too slow as well...

 

I should have known better. I've resisted contributing to CWF for so many years, because of the frankely pathetic judgemental attitude of so many people on here on here, and now bitterly regret posting... I thought it would be a useful post - clearly I misjudged that!

 

I won't even go on to to the next days post when my son's fiance (26) was violently threatened by a boater while opening a lock paddle for him, which required the intervention of 3 people to calm the situation, and included me calling the police - oh because that will be my fault as well.

 

Last post.....I'm off

Woodstock25, welcome to the forum and I hope you stick around. But frankly I think you will have to wise up if it isn't going to be a painful experience.

 

What puzzles me is that you have clearly read this forum as a guest and identified it can be a bit of a battleground. You then choose to open your account with a criticism of a fellow boater and given you must have known which boat was involved and could have easily found they are a contributor on here - and to canal related stuff online in general - you should have realised that they would be well known and likely to able to respond or be defended by others.

 

So maybe don't regale us with your even more disastrous events of the following day just yet - as we may conclude there is a trend with a common denominator - but how about you go to the new to boating bit and introduce yourself and tell us about yourself and your boating. Then we can restart on the right footing.

 

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg
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A boat comes up behind I move over let him pass.

 

We recently did this with a boat that caught us up, and after half a mile they pulled over as they found it was too hard to stay ahead of us. I guess our speeds must have actually been quite similar, only with them being a short GRP cruiser and us being a 70' narrowboat we were each 'faster' under different conditions

 

Richard

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When I see a boat behind is gaining on me, I wait until there is room enough for them to safely pass me and I slow right down towpath side. By slowing down they shouldn't have to accelarate to get past. And by being on the towpath side I'm likely to be in deeper water in case they do gun it past me, then I'm less likely to get the water sucked out from under me leaving me on rocks or mud.

 

When I'm gaining on someone who's fumes or radio I don't want to share, I will gain on them otherwise they'll never realise they have a part to play. How I pass them is up to them, I look to them for a lead as to how they want to manage it.

Should they be bloody minded I simply tie up and let the boat that was behind me have a go.

 

If I see an ex working boat, I will give them the channel regardless of their direction. I've steered a few in my time and am aware of how they require it, in fact they often behave like a tram on rails does.

 

However if I see a boat that's working of any vintage, privately owned or CRT. I give it priority ..... It's Working!

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However if I see a boat that's working of any vintage, privately owned or CRT. I give it priority ..... It's Working!

Nothing wrong with that - up to you. But I just wonder if you do the same thing on the roads, ie always give priority to busses, taxis, vans etc? If not, why not?

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Nothing wrong with that - up to you. But I just wonder if you do the same thing on the roads, ie always give priority to busses, taxis, vans etc? If not, why not?

I am with you on this Nick. Tardiness as a "Working Boater", cuts no ice. Rudeness has no excuse.

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Where can I instantly acquire the necessary all encompassing experience needed to set off in my new boat without fear of being variously bullied and sneered at?

 

I can't, so be ready to be told to "do one" if that's you, fuel boat or not. I'll be doing my best, if you get angsty, I'll do it slower.

 

Not looking forward to this after reading this thread.

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I like to cruise at my own comfort speed, which might be faster than the boat in front, or slower than the boat behind.

 

If the latter, I pull over and let them through. Sometimes stepping on to the towpath to hold my boat on the rope until they pass safely.

 

Sometimes I increase speed if there is no towpath or its narrow and bendy stretch.

.

But catching up with slow boats, quite frankly, I find dawdlers a menace when they won't let you pass - particularly those who decide their speed is the 'correct one' for the canal.- and following boats should space themselves all pretty in line astern.

 

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I think the point is that you have given your version of events, the other chap isn't in a position to do likewise, and things are often different according to the perspective. So yes it is annoying / irritating / upsetting to have someone up your chuff ranting at you, opening top paddles before the bottom gates are closed etc. But equally it is annoying to have the "slow boat to China" ahead of you, slowing right down every time there is a bit of a bend etc and not offering an overtake.

 

So the way you tell it, yes he was an arse. But I wonder how he would tell it? Bottom line is that it does take 2 to have an argument.

 

As you have told it, he was 80% the arse for being hard up your backside but you were 20% ditto for not letting him past until he made a big point of it. I wonder if it would be the same ratio if he told it?

 

 

Indeed, it does take two to have an argument, but only one to shout 'Don’t f’ing slow down!, stop slowing down you f’ing idiot! Don’t you know I can’t stop this….. plus lots more expletives'. So unless you are calling the OP a liar, this is pretty conclusive evidence as to who was the arse.

Edited by homer2911
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Indeed, it does take two to have an argument, but only one to shout 'Dont fing slow down!, stop slowing down you fing idiot! Dont you know I cant stop this.. plus lots more expletives'. So unless you are calling the OP a liar, this is pretty conclusive evidence as to who was the arse.

I don't know. Let's see if the OP sticks around. ?

Edited by Captain Pegg
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Nothing wrong with that - up to you. But I just wonder if you do the same thing on the roads, ie always give priority to busses, taxis, vans etc? If not, why not?

 

Yes I'm that annoying one in front of you letting trucks pull out and hanging back when they negotiate a roundabout.

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Nothing wrong with that - up to you. But I just wonder if you do the same thing on the roads, ie always give priority to busses, taxis, vans etc? If not, why not?

 

For buses, at least because it is what the Highway Code asks you to do......

 

Rule 223

Buses, coaches and trams. Give priority to these vehicles when you can do so safely, especially when they signal to pull away from stops. Look out for people getting off a bus or tram and crossing the road.

 

Yes I'm that annoying one in front of you letting trucks pull out and hanging back when they negotiate a roundabout.

 

Yep,

 

And I'm the one who stops well short of obstructions like bridges where a tall vehicle can only go through in the middle, in order to allow passage of one coming the other way. The only problem being that some plonker in a BMW or Merc may use this as an opportunity to try coming around you only to then be faced with an HGV coming straight at them!

Edited by alan_fincher
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Thanks for posting the other side of this story.

 

snip

 

And............If there was a queue of boats why wasn't the CaRT lady helping at the lock as well as counting boats?

Because she's not a "CRT lady", she's the resident of the lock cottage doing the survey for CRT. When we went through last she was wearing mufti and I doubt if she's had the volocky training.

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Indeed, it does take two to have an argument, but only one to shout 'Don’t f’ing slow down!, stop slowing down you f’ing idiot! Don’t you know I can’t stop this….. plus lots more expletives'. So unless you are calling the OP a liar, this is pretty conclusive evidence as to who was the arse.

By the same token, if you accept the O.P.'s version of events as gospel, you are calling Mr. Askin a liar. The moral maze, eh?

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Mike was tied at the Black Country Museum when I arrived yesterday. Had I known it was him, I'd have stopped for a chat to find out more. From what I know of him, the behaviour detailed in the OP is out of character.

 

Dave

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.

But catching up with slow boats, quite frankly, I find dawdlers a menace when they won't let you pass - particularly those who decide their speed is the 'correct one' for the canal.- and following boats should space themselves all pretty in line astern.

 

a bit like those brave and angelic motorists who lead a convoy, made up of like-minded drivers interspersed with some rightfully indignant drivers, along a country road at 20mph when the safe speed is 40ish but there is no opportunity to pass. It would never occur to such self-righteous eejits to pull in to a lay-by or farm entrance to let the followers pass. frusty.giffrusty.gif

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