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The Boat Behind You.......


Woodstock25

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Last week we (a crew of 6) moved our 62' semi-trad from Cheshire down to Braunston (around the top via Middlewich), via the Trent and Mersey, Coventry Canal and finally the Oxford Canal. A great trip that was largely uneventful, apart from the odd grumpy so and so at couple of locks who didn't want the help we offered!

Anyway, we were happily cruising between Great Haywood and Fradley Junction, and hadn’t long gone through Colwich Lock when I noticed a large Trad behind me – one of those that sell gas and fuel etc. The reason it caught my interest was that a few hours previously, it had been moored up, with a queue of boats waiting for gas/fuel, and it looked like the same boat. I thought to myself at the time, it must have made good progress. By the time it got to just east of Rugely it was less than a boat length away from me, and to be quite honest, felt quite intimidating.

I started to slow down a little as I approached a tight right hand bend, which was met with a tirade of abuse by the chap driving the boat behind.. “ Don’t f’ing slow down!, stop slowing down you f’ing idiot! Don’t you know I can’t stop this….. plus lots more expletives, as the bow of his boat came level and perhaps just past the stern of mine on the sharp bend. I responded in the heat of the moment with something along the lines of “ well don’t drive so close you idiot” , while at the same time trying to dig myself out of an over-cooked bend! More ranting from the boat behind, “if you can’t drive your boat properly, f’ing pull over and let me past”

 

At this point the hackles were up, but I did the right thing and pulled over and let him past…. (He did say ‘thank you’, followed by some other mutterings as he disappeared into the distance).

We settled back into our journey, all calmed down, and he clearly disappeared into the distance at great speed, and for a while all was well….. We then spotted the boat ahead drifting around, centre rope only, as he had stopped to refill another boat. Slowing to pass, we passed him again, hoping to make reasonable progress so as not to have him up so close behind us again.

By the time we got to the narrow section which was the former Armitage Tunnel, the boat was a couple of boat lengths behind us again, and he came steaming through without any regard for the fact that there were boats waiting to come through. We are not sure if he stopped shortly after that, as he disappeared for a bit. When we got to Woodend Lock, there was a bit of a queue and we had been sitting waiting when ‘Jaws’ (which we had nicknamed him by then) came into view. There was a bit of a delay at the lock as there was a CRT volunteer doing a water survey for boats on the way up and down.

We eventually got into the lock and had literally just cleared the bottom gates when the top paddles were cranked fully open in quick succession by Jaws (bottom gates still open at this point!) who then proceeded to close each of the bottom gates with an almighty crash against the flow of water, followed by shouts from us, the CRT volunteer and other boaters who were waiting to go up/come down, about the right way to fill a lock. (I am really surprised that the gates were not damaged).

 

We proceeded on, hoping not to have him on our back again. He caught up with us as we turned onto the Coventry Canal (having stopped for an ice cream), and we made the deliberate decision to moor up and let him past.

 

Personally, I found his very aggressive and intimidating and arrogant attitude very out of character with most other people I have met on the cut over the past 25 years…. In fact, this almost stands out as the worst case of canal; rage I had met (up to that point – It has since been exceeded, but that’s for another time).

 

Surely, if somebody operates a boat that cannot be controlled as easily as another (ie the one in front), then it is their responsibility to ensure that they keep a safe separation - isn't it?

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Last week we (a crew of 6) moved our 62' semi-trad from Cheshire down to Braunston (around the top via Middlewich), via the Trent and Mersey, Coventry Canal and finally the Oxford Canal. A great trip that was largely uneventful, apart from the odd grumpy so and so at couple of locks who didn't want the help we offered!

Anyway, we were happily cruising between Great Haywood and Fradley Junction, and hadn’t long gone through Colwich Lock when I noticed a large Trad behind me – one of those that sell gas and fuel etc. The reason it caught my interest was that a few hours previously, it had been moored up, with a queue of boats waiting for gas/fuel, and it looked like the same boat. I thought to myself at the time, it must have made good progress. By the time it got to just east of Rugely it was less than a boat length away from me, and to be quite honest, felt quite intimidating.

I started to slow down a little as I approached a tight right hand bend, which was met with a tirade of abuse by the chap driving the boat behind.. “ Don’t f’ing slow down!, stop slowing down you f’ing idiot! Don’t you know I can’t stop this….. plus lots more expletives, as the bow of his boat came level and perhaps just past the stern of mine on the sharp bend. I responded in the heat of the moment with something along the lines of “ well don’t drive so close you idiot” , while at the same time trying to dig myself out of an over-cooked bend! More ranting from the boat behind, “if you can’t drive your boat properly, f’ing pull over and let me past”

 

At this point the hackles were up, but I did the right thing and pulled over and let him past…. (He did say ‘thank you’, followed by some other mutterings as he disappeared into the distance).

We settled back into our journey, all calmed down, and he clearly disappeared into the distance at great speed, and for a while all was well….. We then spotted the boat ahead drifting around, centre rope only, as he had stopped to refill another boat. Slowing to pass, we passed him again, hoping to make reasonable progress so as not to have him up so close behind us again.

By the time we got to the narrow section which was the former Armitage Tunnel, the boat was a couple of boat lengths behind us again, and he came steaming through without any regard for the fact that there were boats waiting to come through. We are not sure if he stopped shortly after that, as he disappeared for a bit. When we got to Woodend Lock, there was a bit of a queue and we had been sitting waiting when ‘Jaws’ (which we had nicknamed him by then) came into view. There was a bit of a delay at the lock as there was a CRT volunteer doing a water survey for boats on the way up and down.

We eventually got into the lock and had literally just cleared the bottom gates when the top paddles were cranked fully open in quick succession by Jaws (bottom gates still open at this point!) who then proceeded to close each of the bottom gates with an almighty crash against the flow of water, followed by shouts from us, the CRT volunteer and other boaters who were waiting to go up/come down, about the right way to fill a lock. (I am really surprised that the gates were not damaged).

 

We proceeded on, hoping not to have him on our back again. He caught up with us as we turned onto the Coventry Canal (having stopped for an ice cream), and we made the deliberate decision to moor up and let him past.

 

Personally, I found his very aggressive and intimidating and arrogant attitude very out of character with most other people I have met on the cut over the past 25 years…. In fact, this almost stands out as the worst case of canal; rage I had met (up to that point – It has since been exceeded, but that’s for another time).

 

Surely, if somebody operates a boat that cannot be controlled as easily as another (ie the one in front), then it is their responsibility to ensure that they keep a safe separation - isn't it?

 

Must be quite easy to identify who this was, did you get the boat name??

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One would have thought that, if he earns a living selling to the boating public, his people skills would be a bit more finely tuned. We travel that part of the cut fairly regularly and I will watch out for this chap because we don't hurry ourselves.

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I'd need to know what you consider to be a fair cruising speed before assuming the other boat was going over-fast. Even a part loaded working boat needs plenty of water to make 4mph so if it caught up with you my money's on you being a dawdler. Before being at lot further away than 'less than a boats length away' from you it would have been very obvious it was going faster than you. All you had to do to avoid the 'intimidation' was let it past sooner.

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Before being at lot further away than 'less than a boats length away' from you it would have been very obvious it was going faster than you. All you had to do to avoid the 'intimidation' was let it past sooner.

By the same token, all it had to do was slow down to the same speed as the boat in front. A lot of people do that to avoid ramming the boat in front of them, indeed I would suggest that it is the normal practice. If it was unable to do so, perhaps there was a serious fault with either the boat or its driver.

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By the same token, all it had to do was slow down to the same speed as the boat in front. A lot of people do that to avoid ramming the boat in front of them, indeed I would suggest that it is the normal practice. If it was unable to do so, perhaps there was a serious fault with either the boat or its driver.

 

But that means having to adopt the same (possibly unnecessarily) slow speed as the boat in front whether it suits or not. I've had boats going so slowly we had to knock ours out of gear to stay away from them, and the only way to get the message across to the oblivious crew was get up close.

Edited by twbm
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I'd need to know what you consider to be a fair cruising speed before assuming the other boat was going over-fast. Even a part loaded working boat needs plenty of water to make 4mph so if it caught up with you my money's on you being a dawdler. Before being at lot further away than 'less than a boats length away' from you it would have been very obvious it was going faster than you. All you had to do to avoid the 'intimidation' was let it past sooner.

 

 

I'm sure 4MPH is the maximum speed - not a target!

 

I defy anyone to make 4MPH (on average) on a windey, narrow section of canal. I've a tracker on my boat so know exactly what speed I do - and I certainly ain't a dawdler! Anyway, even if I was (and I've met plenty), I cannot see anything wrong in having a little common decency.... and recognise that the boat in front is going slower, and make due al.owance in the manner in which you drive your boat. You wouldn't tail-gate on a motorway with defective brakes (or would you) - why do it on a canal??

Edited by Woodstock25
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But that means having to adopt the same (possibly unnecessarily) slow speed as the boat in front.

In what circumstances are particular speeds "necessary" on a canal?

 

Of course, people who enjoy going slowly often, out of courtesy, pull over and wave the boat behind past them. But they don't HAVE to - and, in the circumstances described by the OP, I am not sure that they ought to, as scant courtesy has been shown to them.

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Or you could have a little common decency, realise the boat behind is going faster and make due allowance in the manner in which you drive your boat by getting out of the way? You wouldn't do 30 mph in lane 3 of the motorway would you?

 

 

yawnnn..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Just to add, you weren't there - so being quite so judgemental without being in possession of all the facts has no value at all. Thanks for your contribution! Oh, and it wasn't just us, as the boat in front of me had the same issue!

Just thought I say hello by the way. My third post on here.....clapping.gif , and not quite the response I was expecting!!!

Edited by Woodstock25
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Or you could have a little common decency, realise the boat behind is going faster and make due allowance in the manner in which you drive your boat by getting out of the way? You wouldn't do 30 mph in lane 3 of the motorway would you?

 

Err yes, if road/traffic conditions/overhead signs indicated that this was the speed limit.

 

I spend ages driving on single track roads and always pull over to let cars overtake - get the idiots in front of you, same principle applies on canals.

 

Most of the fuel boats round our way (Southern GU) are good boaters no problems occur.

 

L.

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I think the point is that you have given your version of events, the other chap isn't in a position to do likewise, and things are often different according to the perspective. So yes it is annoying / irritating / upsetting to have someone up your chuff ranting at you, opening top paddles before the bottom gates are closed etc. But equally it is annoying to have the "slow boat to China" ahead of you, slowing right down every time there is a bit of a bend etc and not offering an overtake.

 

So the way you tell it, yes he was an arse. But I wonder how he would tell it? Bottom line is that it does take 2 to have an argument.

 

As you have told it, he was 80% the arse for being hard up your backside but you were 20% ditto for not letting him past until he made a big point of it. I wonder if it would be the same ratio if he told it?

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Just thought I say hello by the way. My third post on here.....clapping.gif , and not quite the response I was expecting!!!

...and hello to you. What type of response did you expect? It's a fair bet that a post on CWF will elicit a cross-section of responses, as the only thing which boaters have in common apart from boats is that they're all different. So, this thread is probably typical of the species.

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I think the point is that you have given your version of events, the other chap isn't in a position to do likewise, and things are often different according to the perspective. So yes it is annoying / irritating / upsetting to have someone up your chuff ranting at you, opening top paddles before the bottom gates are closed etc. But equally it is annoying to have the "slow boat to China" ahead of you, slowing right down every time there is a bit of a bend etc and not offering an overtake.

 

So the way you tell it, yes he was an arse. But I wonder how he would tell it? Bottom line is that it does take 2 to have an argument.

 

As you have told it, he was 80% the arse for being hard up your backside but you were 20% ditto for not letting him past until he made a big point of it. I wonder if it would be the same ratio if he told it?

 

...and hello to you. What type of response did you expect? It's a fair bet that a post on CWF will elicit a cross-section of responses, as the only thing which boaters have in common apart from boats is that they're all different. So, this thread is probably typical of the species.

 

 

 

I think the point is that you have given your version of events, the other chap isn't in a position to do likewise, and things are often different according to the perspective. So yes it is annoying / irritating / upsetting to have someone up your chuff ranting at you, opening top paddles before the bottom gates are closed etc. But equally it is annoying to have the "slow boat to China" ahead of you, slowing right down every time there is a bit of a bend etc and not offering an overtake.

 

So the way you tell it, yes he was an arse. But I wonder how he would tell it? Bottom line is that it does take 2 to have an argument.

 

As you have told it, he was 80% the arse for being hard up your backside but you were 20% ditto for not letting him past until he made a big point of it. I wonder if it would be the same ratio if he told it?

You're own confirmation bais has already judged me as going too slow as well...

 

I should have known better. I've resisted contributing to CWF for so many years, because of the frankely pathetic judgemental attitude of so many people on here on here, and now bitterly regret posting... I thought it would be a useful post - clearly I misjudged that!

 

I won't even go on to to the next days post when my son's fiance (26) was violently threatened by a boater while opening a lock paddle for him, which required the intervention of 3 people to calm the situation, and included me calling the police - oh because that will be my fault as well.

 

Last post.....I'm off

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the guy is presumably making a living out of providing a service to other boaters.

 

it is hardly surprising that he wants to get on with it; it's easier for you and the rest of the world just to let him get on with it.

 

he probably believes he is a professional full-time boatman, while you and your ilk are just 'leisure boaters'.

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yawnnn..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Just to add, you weren't there - so being quite so judgemental without being in possession of all the facts has no value at all. Thanks for your contribution! Oh, and it wasn't just us, as the boat in front of me had the same issue!

Just thought I say hello by the way. My third post on here.....clapping.gif , and not quite the response I was expecting!!!

 

Yes I can understand your frustration at some of the replies you have received.

 

My opinion FWIW is that there is absolutely no excuse for the boat you mention following so close, attempting to draw alongside you on a bend, shout abuse, and open paddles prematurely without being asked.

 

Having said that and having a heavy 60 ft, 34" draught boat, I often find myself managing less than 3 mph on many of the shallower canals including the section you mention. Although I try to maintain at least 3 mph, it often becomes physically impossible for me to go faster despite using more power, which only serves to slow me. I am very surprised therefore (and maybe frustrated) on the rare occasions I do get stuck gehind a slower boat. In such cases I politely make my presence known, and often when able the boat in front pulls over.

 

I cruise with a handheld GPS so am always aware of exact speed I'm making. In order to catch a boat they would probably need to be doing less than 2.5 mph on the straight sections though.

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the guy is presumably making a living out of providing a service to other boaters.

 

it is hardly surprising that he wants to get on with it; it's easier for you and the rest of the world just to let him get on with it.

 

he probably believes he is a professional full-time boatman, while you and your ilk are just 'leisure boaters'.

 

True, but they are also customers................ hope the OP keeps on posting - sounds as if he had a tough time and no mention of any probs with anglers....... hang on in there!

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Last post.....I'm off

Do you feel that you gave CWF a fair test drive?

In my view, your post brought a wide cross-section of replies, which I don't think is a bad thing. I would say that some posts were supportive of your stance and that others took a different view.

The story of the young man being threatened by a boater whom he was trying to help sounds exciting, and incredible - but I am not sure how it could be construed as being your fault. I guess we shall never know now.

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I'm sure 4MPH is the maximum speed - not a target!

 

I defy anyone to make 4MPH (on average) on a windey, narrow section of canal. I've a tracker on my boat so know exactly what speed I do - and I certainly ain't a dawdler! Anyway, even if I was (and I've met plenty), I cannot see anything wrong in having a little common decency.... and recognise that the boat in front is going slower, and make due al.owance in the manner in which you drive your boat. You wouldn't tail-gate on a motorway with defective brakes (or would you) - why do it on a canal??

But if you don't want to travel at 3.4759 knots, and somebody behind you does, one would have thought it common courtesy and good manners to wave the faster boat through. Obviously not in your case.

 

Which tracker do you have that tells EXACTLY, what speed you do, as I'd be most interested?

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Interesting,

We had some character of a similar nature follow us out of Braunston tunnel the other year. I had gone ahead to take over from the people leaving the lock and as their boats were leaving I watched this boat try to pull into the side. He executed a "superb cock up" with the boat going all over the place. I was rather worried at that point about how we would would get down the locks together.

BUT NO he held back and would not come with us.

Later Kathy told me he had, in fact, tried to sideswipe us into the shrubbery, presumably out of his way. It didn't work however! our boat is deep and heavy... He then played the same tricks with the lock paddles as you describe, no worry to us and we soon left him to play on his own. He passed us much later after we had tied up and I was doing the chimney brasses.

 

Earlier in the day we went up the Buckby Locks with a nice couple with a smallish boat and they were still shaken up from a similar sideswiping incident with a fuel boat------ |This boater?,when asked said he took exception too their notice about speeding boats and had done it on purpose.

 

I'll leave that story for your judgment.

Edited by JohnB
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It seems to me, and I am certainly no expert, that old working boats do tend to slip through the water at a high cruising speed. Perhaps its the engine/prop combination. Or the fact that they are generally lightly loaded in comparison to what they are capable of carrying. I admit to generally being a bit of a dawdler and the old working boat types always seem to catch me up far quicker than leisure boats. I am always aware of what is behind me as much as what is in front, and slow down and pull over to let others pass at the earliest safe opportunity.

 

Ken

Edited by NB Ellisiana
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When you're caught up by a faster boat, on which side should you let them pass?

They should overtake on the left.

 

It is actually easier for everyone if the boat in front goes over to the bank and stops completely for the few seconds which it takes for the one behind to get past.

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True, but they are also customers

a bit like asking a petrol tanker to drive with particular courtesy to crawling holiday drivers in Devon while he is trying to make several deliveries during the day while keeping within his working time limits.

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