New widebeam, rust coming through already?!

[alexander1234]

I have a 1 year old widebeam, every time I scrape rub or touch the paintwork in the wrong way it seems to go back to bare steel, along the handrail of the boat (square) a patch of rust seems to be peeling its way down.

I have random spots of rust appearing in many places including in the bilge, under hatches, and in the middle of paintwork areas.

Not sure exactly what I'm doing with this at the moment, I'm waiting to hear back from the builder, thought I would see if anyone has heard of this before, or might know what I should be looking out for when dealing with the builder.

Thanks

[Murflynn]

can we assume that you bought the boat already fully painted?

[alexander1234]

Yep, sorry I didn't say, yes fully painted top coat and all

[Glynn]

What make of boat is it ?.

PM me if you want.

[Robbo]

Was the boat grit blasted before painted?

[BruceinSanity]

Was the boat grit blasted before painted?

Yeah, sounds like mill scale coming through. Boat needs repainting, basically.

[alexander1234]

No sure if the boat was grit blasted or not, is this common practice?

[dave moore]

Few builders will grit blast unless requested, and charge for the facility, it sounds to me as though you have received a minimal paint job just to get you out of the yard. I could be wrong, though as someone working in the business......

 

Dave

[BEngo]

A good buillder will use blasted and primed plate for the hull and pickled and primed plate for the cabin. Both sorts of plate have had the mill scale removed.

Economy builders paint onto the millscale. This will rust anywhere the paint is damaged.

N

[mark99]

Unfortunately it's one of those areas that's easy to short cut on to save time and money.

 

See what builder says. You may have an honourable type. Getting an expert witness and the resulting argument could be messy and expensive, stressful and even if found in your favour, no guarantee you will get the thing sorted.

 

Take a look here re millscale.

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=JY-01v13P4UC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=spalling+%22differential+thermal+expansion%22+steel+%22mill+scale%22&source=bl&ots=UH2_kCpfzu&sig=DyZ2e1yiBCoOGMx8-H0WF2qNZlg&hl=en#v=onepage&q=spalling%20%22differential%20thermal%20expansion%22%20steel%20%22mill%20scale%22&f=false

Edited July 11, 2016 by mark99

[raymondh]

A good buillder will use blasted and primed plate for the hull and pickled and primed plate for the cabin. Both sorts of plate have had the mill scale removed.

Economy builders paint onto the millscale. This will rust anywhere the paint is damaged.

N

Hi,

Can you name some of these good builders with photo's as when we looked at many here none used the materials you describe

Ray

 

edit

one we looked at pics of latest builds looks like untreated steel ?

 

 

http://www.tylerwilsonboats.com/index/#/brigantine/

Edited July 11, 2016 by raymondh

[b0atman]

I know of a widebeam from what was Midland boat builders Stenson, had paint problems, kept peeling off where all the welds where had used filler to smooth out welds which did not like temperature changes.

[mark99]

Hi,

Can you name some of these good builders with photo's as when we looked at many here none used the materials you describe

Ray

 

edit

one we looked at pics of latest builds looks like untreated steel ?

 

 

http://www.tylerwilsonboats.com/index/#/brigantine/

 

 

I've never head of them but this lot say they do.

 

http://www.bluewaterboats.co.uk/shot-blasting/

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

I've never head of them but this lot say they do.

 

http://www.bluewaterboats.co.uk/shot-blasting/

 

VW said their diesels met certain standards. - and gave test results to prove it.

[mark99]

I found this from an old thread - Dave Moore may be able to confirm.

 

"Norton Canes Boatbuilders have a standard build/painting process. The hulls etc are built, left outside for a few months to rust, before being bought back in, shot blasted and then painted. In Grahams words - it allows the steel to rest after the bending, heating & welding and then helps get rid of the millscale before final cleaning up and painting"

 

 

Tyler Wilson blurb suggests they linish the steel before painting suggesting <as in I'm guessing> their steel may be supplied oiled and pickled as bright steel.

Edited July 11, 2016 by mark99

[raymondh]

Asking re

 

A good buillder will use blasted and primed plate for the hull and pickled and primed plate for the cabin. Both sorts of plate have had the mill scale removed.

 

Not a builder who claims to shotblast, however this would be good if protected immediately after blasting

 

Ray

[mark99]

 

VW said their diesels met certain standards. - and gave test results to prove it.

 

 

Nope never seen a VW narrowboat or widebeam yet.

[alexander1234]

All of this is interesting, but what is my next move? Does the whole boat need a repaint then?

[ditchcrawler]

All of this is interesting, but what is my next move? Does the whole boat need a repaint then?

Who can say without looking at it.

[mark99]

All of this is interesting, but what is my next move? Does the whole boat need a repaint then?

 

 

Speak to the builder and see how the land lies. Don't wade in all guns blazing. How about some images?

 

This is quite good background info to millscale.

 

http://www.duluxprotectivecoatings.com.au/technotespdf/1.1.4%20Millscale.pdf

Edited July 11, 2016 by mark99

[Phil Ambrose]

All of this is interesting, but what is my next move? Does the whole boat need a repaint then?

It's a possibility but approach the builder first and see what they have to say, however do not be fobbed off.

Phil

[DHutch]

I would also in many ways be far more upset and worried about the rust in the bilges then on the outside as atleast there is access to correct this.

 

That said, a lot of boats are rusting on the inside and there is a lot of steel to get through!

 

All the best and keep us in the loop.

 

 

Daniel

[MtB]

I have a 1 year old widebeam, every time I scrape rub or touch the paintwork in the wrong way it seems to go back to bare steel, along the handrail of the boat (square) a patch of rust seems to be peeling its way down.

I have random spots of rust appearing in many places including in the bilge, under hatches, and in the middle of paintwork areas.

Not sure exactly what I'm doing with this at the moment, I'm waiting to hear back from the builder, thought I would see if anyone has heard of this before, or might know what I should be looking out for when dealing with the builder.

Thanks

 

 

I feel driven to enquire, was this a bargain basement priced new boat, or a 'money no object' type of new build commission?

 

I'm not sure previous posters have fully outlined the size of the saving for the builder if he paints straight onto millscale. I'd say £5k to £10k difference in build cost between doing it cheap and doing it right.

[Grebe]

When I was working as a quality auditor we made a quick reference sheet for when we encountered surface preparation tasks. This document was last reviewed when I retired in 2007, however the principles will be the same. The observant will have noticed I worked in the rail industry.

 

 

SURFACE FINISH INFORMATION.doc

[peterboat]

I found this from an old thread - Dave Moore may be able to confirm.

 

"Norton Canes Boatbuilders have a standard build/painting process. The hulls etc are built, left outside for a few months to rust, before being bought back in, shot blasted and then painted. In Grahams words - it allows the steel to rest after the bending, heating & welding and then helps get rid of the millscale before final cleaning up and painting"

 

 

Tyler Wilson blurb suggests they linish the steel before painting suggesting <as in I'm guessing> their steel may be supplied oiled and pickled as bright steel.

As I have watched many including my own boat being built by Jonny I can assure you they are linished before painting! Very noisy and dirty but produces a very shiny finish that paints up nice. Dont know about other builders though