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Chimney chain..?


rivergate

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Basically because they came off old GMB's, but there were two types; with a flat link, and without. I have no idea what quality those from abroad are, or from which country. If it's India, there are many very crafted metalworkers there, much like there was in and around Birmingham and elsewhere here, and small production runs are quite likely to be done in small shops. I think if we worried about sweat shops such as exist in China, none of us would be wearing many clothes.

 

What's a "genuine" clip? If it looks right, feels right, and polishes right (chrome is a bit out of place) - then does it matter?

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Thanks Darren, that answers why they looked a bit "funny" and some odd marks on them - most likely made when the links were turned. No disrespect meant.

And if as Derek says in his post, then why pay loads for an older, real, one?

 

I really must stop over thinking this.

 

Maybe I should stop reading this thread but it is about the only one in which I can contribute to with some knowledge.

 

Sad isn't it.

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Sorry to ask but what is it about these links? I know that Pete is looking for a copy as the overall chain is "cleaner" because the fold to the D ring is on the same side as the hook - I get that but Darren's 2 chains on the outside are't quite right. Is this because someone has fiddled with all but the top links or because they were never on a gas mask bag in the first place and does it matter? They look great anyway and as he says that they were on a boat back in the day. Is that more important than them being liberated from old gas mask bags?

So what makes them genuine?

Is it that they were used back in the day on a boat or that they came from old GMBs?

Are the chains Pete is looking for just as genuine as any other because they were used back in, his and mine, day?

Just asking.

I think there are three levels going on here:

 

1 = being difficult to get hold of makes them desirable, and the originals appear harder to get hold of so increasing their desirability.

 

2 = they are particularly suitable for purpose in that they are substantial whilst decorative.

 

3 = they have some historical integrity in that they were used 'back in the day'.

 

Whether these are original or reproduction links is irrelevant to me, and both are considerably more suitable than the off the shelf and rather flimsy chimney chains available from chandlers nowadays. I think a chimney chain made from original links and has 'historical' provenance, i.e. has a known history and is linked to a boating family, will always be more desirable but is clearly no different from one made up from original links bought off Ebay - so as to value you pay your money and take your choice. Should a reproduction link chain have less value ? I think yes, but the problem is what is an original worth ?

 

Would I buy one of these Indian link chimney chains ? probably if the quality is good enough, but my quest for a Doug Greaves reproduction will continue.

 

When I worked on the boats, and before I bought a reproduction chain from Doug Greaves, I used a length of ordinary brass chain - and that worked just as well but at a fraction of the cost captain.gif

Edited by pete harrison
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Pete, raymond has a good quality brass normal chain (this looks just as good in my opinion) this will be my second choice if can cant decid if i like the ww2 hooks on my tall brass stack but would like to use them on this as the stack is made from ww1-ww2 parts (so is my short stack but no need for a chain on this)

My middle brass stack im going to puy a normal brass chain as this has no ww2 parts its just old. + ill use this chain to tie up the water cans on the roof.

I think as said what makes these ww2 links so popular is the use and there age and there brass if they were chrome i dont think they wouldhave been used.

 

I think as far as the brass between the link and d link some are one way round some the other im going to see how hard it will be to add d links helt on with a brass plate to the ones i currently have.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just received my reproduction gas mask bag straps from Soldier of fortune:

 

Repro on left original on the right:

 

 

 

The reproduction are quite crude, the link is not fully rolled around the D ring. There are marks where it looks as if a chisel of some sort has been used to force the metal down. The repro's are about a 1/4 of an inch shorter than the original and are not as nicely shaped.

 

Still, I suppose a gongoozler running up the cut to get out of a shower of rain wouldn't notice.

 

I am glad I did not pay more than a tenner each for them though. I don't think they would suit your practiced eye, Pete.

 

 

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I showed this picture to Mike Humphris today and he thought the gent on the left might be a "Carter."

 

He didn't recognise the other two though.

gallery_5000_522_107636.jpg

 

Further to this picture Mrs T is working on family history for a boating family and came across these pictures:

 

 

 

They are small unfortunately but it is the best we can get. Abel Beechey perhaps?

Edited by Ray T
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Just received my reproduction gas mask bag straps from Soldier of fortune:

 

The reproduction are quite crude, the link is not fully rolled around the D ring. There are marks where it looks as if a chisel of some sort has been used to force the metal down. The repro's are about a 1/4 of an inch shorter than the original and are not as nicely shaped.

 

Still, I suppose a gongoozler running up the cut to get out of a shower of rain wouldn't notice.

 

I am glad I did not pay more than a tenner each for them though. I don't think they would suit your practiced eye, Pete.

Unfortunately these sound to be as I suspected they would be, so I shall not be placing an order.

 

We will have to see what those being made for 'billybobbooth' are like, which were due to arrive at the end of August captain.gif

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  • 1 month later...

I got one come threw but was one without the d link after a long awaited responce it got sent back as was a modern brass clip without d link on it. I emailed them a pic of the one they were ment to be sending me ive been told they have the correct one and should be sent out.

I think as its coming from a foreign country its not the fastest service.

Edited by billybobbooth
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Arrived today. All i can say is mmmmmmm there ok but need some work the overall shape is ok but is a tiny bit shorter but the clip part has no shape just been bent over so going to do some work to it and get the shapes right if all goes well ill order the rest mod them and sell but im going to post up before and after pics see what you guys think.

 

Look sim to the ones that were posted a bit ago but dont have the dent marks in them.

Nice solid brass though with a bit of work could be made to look old quite easly

I can see how they are done i might if i can see if i can make some with correct length and shapes if my mods dont work

Edited by billybobbooth
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I'd prefer them to look authentic, not old ..... unless you mean the same thing.huh.png

Yes ment same thing.

 

As some new brass looks cheap and very shiny but week and just rubbish. The brass looks good has a real good strong feel to it even the d link feels solid as strong like it will last its just not been finished off cut shaped and job done no final clean or tidy up like the old ones. My only down side is the back the shape of the clip is wrong its just strait so with a little work i think i can get the shape right if so as said ill show a photo and we can go from there.

 

I have an old one so i have something to go from and shape it from.

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Not all clips have all the features that you are referring to. Some have a small crease on the "flat" side some don't, some are shorter than others and some the open end of the hook has a little up-turn making the opening larger and others have not. I will post pictures when there is a little more light.

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The top pictures show the difference between various "hooks"

The bottom left show the crease on the back (I hope) Crease on the left and a flat hook on the right.

The picture on the right shows the different sizes and shape.

All are genuine!

Hope this helps

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All of these "clips" are from British MK VI gas mask bags 1940 to '41 (ish). MK VII had no clips and the MK V had one with a canvas link between the hook and the "D" ring.

Ones i have are more like the ones at the bottom right

 

But if you look at all yours they have a nice big curve where you link onto the next d ring mine are very sharp curvs so ive started to re cirve it then will put a small flick on the end as it looks far better.

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  • 6 months later...

Sorry been such a long time far more important things came up.

After so lengthy talks with the people i was having mine made up the cant seam to do a good job! I fianaly got the shape right so the hook part (not the d ring other end) curves and shapes match the original what i cant get right is the loop round the d ring nearly every attempt they do the finish is rubbish so ive told them im not happy with the finish and wont be getting any more prototypes made, they were an good nice thick brass but getting them to understand i wanted quality was very hard, i will continue to see if i can find someone else but its looking grim.

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