Volunteer lockers; help or complete nuisance

[RufusR]

Now don't get me wrong people willing to give up their spare time to help inexperienced or even experoenced boaters traverse locks should be lauded however surely they should be trained correctly

 

We had what could have been a nasty experience at 3 locks last week when a volunteer opened all th gate paddles into the open front of our boat when we shouted to hiim to stop or he would sink us we were met with abuse about how he knew how to handle a lock and we didn't and he walked off being quite unnoleasant , surety CaRT needs to train these people properly or stop using them before someone's boat is damaged or god forbids a boat is sunk in a lock

 

Thoughts

[ditchcrawler]

Now don't get me wrong people willing to give up their spare time to help inexperienced or even experoenced boaters traverse locks should be lauded however surely they should be trained correctly

 

We had what could have been a nasty experience at 3 locks last week when a volunteer opened all th gate paddles into the open front of our boat when we shouted to hiim to stop or he would sink us we were met with abuse about how he knew how to handle a lock and we didn't and he walked off being quite unnoleasant , surety CaRT needs to train these people properly or stop using them before someone's boat is damaged or god forbids a boat is sunk in a lock

 

Thoughts

You should report this to CRT as soon as possible with as much information as possible.

[Guest]

Now don't get me wrong people willing to give up their spare time to help inexperienced or even experoenced boaters traverse locks should be lauded however surely they should be trained correctly

We had what could have been a nasty experience at 3 locks last week when a volunteer opened all th gate paddles into the open front of our boat when we shouted to hiim to stop or he would sink us we were met with abuse about how he knew how to handle a lock and we didn't and he walked off being quite unnoleasant , surety CaRT needs to train these people properly or stop using them before someone's boat is damaged or god forbids a boat is sunk in a lock

Thoughts

First thoughts, was it definitely a genuine vol Locky ?

 

There are (or was) a couple of randomn geezers on the system complete with blue sweat shirts, we met one once on the T&M.

 

Second thoughts, have you discussed this with CRT and what did they say?

[magnetman]

Report to CRT with time and date and location.

 

Personally I think the volunteer lock attendants are a bad thing but as I do most of my boating through locks on the Thames these days I don't really notice them much.

It definitely seems to me that people who are not skilled at interacting with the public should not be allowed to be in charge of locks (I know the boat owner is in charge technically but that's another topic)

 

One does wonder about insurance

[nicknorman]

Before commenting I think we need to know if there was actually a risk, or whether it was just because you felt you weren't "in charge".

 

By which I mean what was the actual risk, which depends in the boat length (if not that long, did you need to be at the front of the lock) and more importantly, the design of the gate paddles. Some folk get very excited about gate paddles but the reality is that most have baffles these days, that prevent a great torrent flowing sideways into the lock. Also the lock depth (ie how far above the water level were the paddles).

 

I'm asking all this because it seems that the gate paddles were opened and yet there was presumably no water sprayed into your boat. So was that by sheer luck and a very close call, or was it in fact because what the volocky did was fine from a safety point of view, just not what you wanted to happen?

 

By the way, I'm not saying that the latter makes your complaint unreasonable, just trying to understand what the volocky was thinking.

[RufusR]

It's all in hand as frit my poor old mum to death as she was I the front at the time and well he did have CaRT symbols on his sweat shirt and a CaRT life jacket on so we assumed he was genuine , let's see what CaRT say

[RufusR]

It's all in hand as frit my poor old mum to death as she was I the front at the time and well he did have CaRT symbols on his sweat shirt and a CaRT life jacket on so we assumed he was genuine , let's see what CaRT say

[BruceinSanity]

Before commenting I think we need to know if there was actually a risk, or whether it was just because you felt you weren't "in charge".

By which I mean what was the actual risk, which depends in the boat length (if not that long, did you need to be at the front of the lock) and more importantly, the design of the gate paddles. Some folk get very excited about gate paddles but the reality is that most have baffles these days, that prevent a great torrent flowing sideways into the lock. Also the lock depth (ie how far above the water level were the paddles).

I'm asking all this because it seems that the gate paddles were opened and yet there was presumably no water sprayed into your boat. So was that by sheer luck and a very close call, or was it in fact because what the volocky did was fine from a safety point of view, just not what you wanted to happen?

By the way, I'm not saying that the latter makes your complaint unreasonable, just trying to understand what the volocky was thinking.

Don't care what the rights and wrongs are, there is no excuse for abuse. CRT have said over and over again that the volockies are taught that the steerer is in charge. The volocky, by this account, opened the gate paddles before the steerer was ready for them. I'd have taken his name and told him I was reporting him. A bit of video footage on the mobile wouldn't come amiss, either.

[micky1010]

My father is a volunteer lock keeper and trains all the volunteers who work his flight, He would be shocked by the actions of the volunteer you had, they would be dismissed immediately if the CRT were told of this, volunteer or employee. All volunteers are instructed to wait until the boats skipper gives them permission to open any paddles and then they have to ask if you want it full open or partially.

As an unfit single hander I welcome every volunteer and help I come across,I wish every lock was manned at all times it would greatly increase my ability to travel further afield.

The help I have had through the atherstone and fradley locks has been invaluable, it would have taken me whole days to get through them otherwise.

[dmr]

Its a mixture, most are very good and are often boaters, but a few are still dangerous and CaRT really need to sort this out.

So far this year......

K&A Devizes, two old blokes watched us do the first lock to see what out technique was then helped perfectly with the rest. Both boaters. Superb

Napton OK and friendly

Hilmorten Dangerous! particularly sad after Alan Finchers bad experience there. Decided not to report them as it was 5% my fault and so CaRT would have blamed me.

Middlewich. Very good and understand all about getting full length boats round the tight bend.

Bunbury Staircase (Shroppie): Dangerous. So excited about doing the "Bunbury shuffle" lost all common sense.

Chester Staircase. Very good.

 

..............Dave

[RufusR]

Ok Nick I agree with you ! We are not a 70 footer only 60 but I was a bit forward as I didn't expect the gate paddles to be opened before they were covered and yes mum did get a bit wet but probably no immediate danger as i backed off but surely it's not worth the risk it's not a race and there were 2 boats in the lock

 

Maybe I am over reacting it was not a control thing as after a long day locking I was quite glad initially for the help but just shocked that it happened

 

At the end of the day it's my home

[nicknorman]

Don't care what the rights and wrongs are, there is no excuse for abuse. CRT have said over and over again that the volockies are taught that the steerer is in charge. The volocky, by this account, opened the gate paddles before the steerer was ready for them. I'd have taken his name and told him I was reporting him. A bit of video footage on the mobile wouldn't come amiss, either.

Not enough information to make this assertion. You say "no excuse for abuse" however we don't know the manner in which the OP objected to what was happening.

 

Yes there is no disagreement that the volocky opened the paddle before the steerer was ready, but my point was to try to determine whether there was an actual hazard (along the lines of the Fincher incident) or whether the steerer was simply miffed to not be "in charge".

 

The former is really bad, the latter is only slightly bad!

Edited July 10, 2016 by nicknorman

[magnetman]

If I ever help anyone through a lock (I'm an antisocial git so I usually don't) I will always gain eye contact and a thumbs up or a nod from the person in charge of the boat before beginning to wind any paddle. Lock operation should be entirely under the direction of the boat person unless there are other circumstances such as trying to get through quickly due to delays or something in which case this should be explained to the boat person.

 

I find the fact that the op's mother was alarmed is enough to make it offensive. Going through locks should always be pleasurable. Its a basic breakdown in the whole operation if people become frightened.

[Pie Eater]

First thoughts, was it definitely a genuine vol Locky ?

There are (or was) a couple of randomn geezers on the system complete with blue sweat shirts, we met one once on the T&M.

Second thoughts, have you discussed this with CRT and what did they say?

As I sometimes assist boaters I have been mistaken for a volunteer probably because I wear a high vis tabard when I am out cycling.

 

Steve

[magnetman]

Do you ask if people want help or just go for it and help them anyway?

[alan_fincher]

Following an incident involving a volunteer lock keeper and one of our boats, we were invited to meet with CRT South East Waterways manager Vicky Martin and with CRT's Head of Health and Safety, Tony Stammers.

 

Amongst several other key points that were agreed, the following two are particularly important.....

 

1) The volunteer lock keeper should always ask the boater before offering assistance

 

2) The boater has the overall responsibility/control. The lock keepers are there to advise, guide and assist

CRT undertook to re-iterate these points to all existing volunteers, and to make sure all new ones were trained to respect them.

 

If you feel you have been treated in a way that ignores either of these points, then I believe your experiences should be reported, and that you should ensure your concerns are addressed at a high enough level, that the necessary actions are taken in respect of the volunteer involved.

 

EDITED TO ADD:

Cath has just reminded me that Tony Stammers actually said at our meeting that it is very important that people do report cases where they believe a volunteer has not acted within the rules they should be working to.

Edited July 10, 2016 by alan_fincher

[Pie Eater]

Do you ask if people want help or just go for it and help them anyway?

I always ask and I never start anything without the steerers thumbs up. If a boat has plenty crew I tend not to ask.

 

Steve

[Lysander]

Just a thought. The OP did say there were two boats in the lock. Is it possible the lockie got the nod from the steerer of the other boat? No excuse for rudeness though.

[Cheshire cat]

It's historical now but we had a problem with volunteers at the Foxton flight two years ago. They whizzed the paddles up and then stood and watched as a leak from the lock gates proceeded to flood our fore deck. The lock currents meant that my wife was unable to pull the boat back from the front gates. A wet lounge was the result.

[RLWP]

I'm sure it depends on who you meet, I have found the volunteer lockies we have met on the last few trips to be absolutely fine

 

Mind you, one pair started out to set up ahead of us but ended up closing up behind. We were quicker than they were

 

Richard

[john6767]

The one on Delph was a real pain, he was helping the boat in front down and left the bottom gates open, so for us he just made it more work.

 

Last week at Wilmncote one just leaned on an open bottom gate and watched us coming up, and then when we got to the lock he was at my wife had to close the gate he was leaning on.

[Tom and Bex]

Over the past couple of years or so we've had mixed experiences.

 

Have nothing but praise for the Lapworth ones and nearly always had help there. They ask us if we want assistance then seem to follow our lead with how quick to wind paddles etc. Similar at the Delph this year going down.

 

Have yet to have any help at Hatton despite seeing volunteer lock keepers there on several occasions (the only time I've seen them do anything was a couple of times when they closed the gates and turned the lock against us)!

 

Worst experience was Foxton when they refused to leave an empty lock behind us going down and resulted in us taking on significant water into the back cabin through leaking gates despite the rear doors being shut. Braunston we were having to help them understand how to let water down and they significantly added to confusion on the flight!

 

Tom

[NB Lola]

Not had a problem, fastest passages through Fradley ever and no thought police to boot!

Edited July 10, 2016 by NB Lola

[Horace42]

Volunteers helping with locks is fine with us. No problems for us on the few occasions we have been helped - and grateful for it.

It is other boaters, following or passing - novices in a hurry - are the worse ones.

 

[bassplayer]

 

1) The volunteer lock keeper should always ask the boater before offering assistance

 

 

Well I have NEVER been asked if I wanted assistance. So if CRT really did say that they are not following thier own guidelines.

 

Out of curiosity, did the issue of the boater taking responsibility for thier own actions come up at the meeting?