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Locks, another thought


Ricco1
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In an ideal world, with well looked after gates, everyone could leave gates open on leaving a lock. It is overall less work for everyone.

 

But because the gates haven't been maintained, they leak, so the standard rule is to close, hence there is no advantage to leaving them open

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This is not true. The rate of leak is roughly proportional to the pressure ie the water level difference. If the lock leaks to half full, the leak rate at each gate is half what it would be if one gate was left open. And the leaks are "in series" so the overall leak rate is halved. However leaks are not always as simple as that, sometimes a leak only occurs at a certain level of the gate which may or may not stop at 1/2 level. But overall shutting both gates will reduce the risk of a severe leak. Also we quite often seem to find paddles not fully wound down. If gates a left open with paddles at the other end not fully closed, there can be a significant waste of water and lowering of pound levels.

 

Bottom line, as I have said repeatedly, is just shut the gates on canals as per the Boater's handbook and the many signs on lock flights. Or if you are a lazy arrogant arse who knows better than everyone else, then leave them open and be hated by all.

 

Yes you have said it repeatedly, and yes I do follow the boaters handbook. It is possible for someone to follow the rules whilst questioning the reasons behind them.

 

Your inability to conduct a discussion without making unwarranted assumptions and throwing insults says quite a lot about you.

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Leaving gates open is common practice on the G.U. but not usual elsewhere.

 

Upon reading your other thread it appears you're trying please everybody and avoid confrontation, I don't think leaving gates open will achieve that.

I wouldn't worry about any of this, especially meeting grumpy buggers.

Some people won't get out of bed in the morning until they've decided what's going to upset them today.

 

Stop trying to find the perfect answer to impossible questions, just get out on your boat and enjoy yourself.

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I have to admit the when coming to a flight going in the same direction as the last boat where they have left all the gates pen does get me annoyed.

Especially if it's going downhill and there are 2 bottom gates. Because I don't step over the bottom gates with only 1 closed (not having long enough legs and being a it of a coward) I have to walk up and down the lockside twice before I can even start to fill the lock.

 

So I say leave all gates closed when you leave the lock.

The only exception for us is when we've closed the gate then notice it's opened again when we've left. You can only lean against it for so long so they get left open, but that's a rarity, so if it's on a whole flight I know someones just been lazy.

 

Sue

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Yes you have said it repeatedly, and yes I do follow the boaters handbook. It is possible for someone to follow the rules whilst questioning the reasons behind them.

 

Your inability to conduct a discussion without making unwarranted assumptions and throwing insults says quite a lot about you.

If you are referring to some imaginary assumption on my part that you don't shut the gates, or that you are an arrogant arse, then these are just that - your imaginary assumptions. If you routinely shut the gates as per the boater's handbook etc, which I think you do (although of course I don't actually know) then of course those comments don't apply to you. If you read my post properly you will see that my last sentence use the word "if" which I think makes my position quite clear to anyone other than somebody looking to be insulted.

 

So I am able to conduct a discussion without making unwarranted assumptions and throwing insults. That you can't interpret posts correctly, seeking instead an incorrect interpretation that allows you to be "outraged" says quite a lot about you.

 

There is no reason not to question the rules, whilst following them, other than that it has been done to death so many times before.

Edited by nicknorman
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If you are referring to some imaginary assumption on my part that you don't shut the gates, or that you are an arrogant arse, then these are just that - your imaginary assumptions. If you routinely shut the gates as per the boater's handbook etc, which I think you do (although of course I don't actually know) then of course those comments don't apply to you. If you read my post properly you will see that my last sentence use the word "if" which I think makes my position quite clear to anyone other than somebody looking to be insulted.

 

So I am able to conduct a discussion without making unwarranted assumptions and throwing insults. That you can't interpret posts correctly, seeking instead an incorrect interpretation that allows you to be "outraged" says quite a lot about you.

 

There is no reason not to question the rules, whilst following them, other than that it has been done to death so many times before.

 

I thought your response before you edited it was quite reasonable. It's a shame you felt the need to change it.You are clearly looking for an argument and I have no intention of complying.

 

If the repetition of the subject irritates you so much, you could always just ignore the thread.

Edited by billS
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I follow CRT's guidance on this, not just because it's what the navigation authority says and they ought to know better than the average boater, but because I think they're right. The various exceptions are dealt with by notices at locks, but for most locks it makes sense to have us close all gates and paddles unless someone's coming that way or a gate simply refuses to stay shut.

 

The main reason as I see it is that if either gate is more leaky than the other it's particularly important not to leave the least leaky end open for a long period, as that can cause a serious loss of water. In practice an open top or bottom gate may swing shut after a while as water slowly flows past it, but closing it at the outset should slow down the loss of water. Also Churchward is right that a leak in a bottom gate may not lose a whole lock of water. In my experience the usual place for a leak is where gunwhales have rubbed a hole away, often on double gates, so at least the last foot or so of water might be saved.

 

It's also an argument that lots of people operating locks will not be happy to step across a narrow lock where one gate is open; I usually do it but I can fully understand why anyone less agile or of a nervous disposition wouldn't want to.

 

At a bit of a tangent to this topic, I wonder whether gates really were less leaky in the past, before the post-war decline of the canals. Would the canal companies really have forked out promptly for repair or replacement as soon as a problem began, or are people romanticising the past?

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I'm not having a pop here but...

What would you call someone who made an extra job for you

with the only justification being, to make less work for them.

 

I think that the leakage situation on most locks makes closing all gates and paddles the best option.

 

But we deal with whatever we come across, so try not to worry about it.

 

Rog

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rivers are a special case - water loss is not an issue.

But all rivers are not equal - see the Nene as above.

 

The MLC also ask that Ashline lock is left with downstream doors open, most seldom do so if leaving the levels as the penstocks/slackers/paddles are a right slow bugger to wind - result if you are heading away from Whittlesey with the lock in your favour though.....

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I'm not having a pop here but...

What would you call someone who made an extra job for you

with the only justification being, to make less work for them.

 

I think that the leakage situation on most locks makes closing all gates and paddles the best option.

 

But we deal with whatever we come across, so try not to worry about it.

 

Rog

What would you call someone who made less work for you?

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What would you call someone who made less work for you?

But you'd quite obviously leave the gates for an approaching boat.

 

If you cannot see an approaching boat you have to shut up shop as the guidance suggests for good reasons.

 

Rog

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On balance, it's probably best to make the extra effort and close them, so that's what I'll do.

As a singlehander, think of the extra work for you if someone had left all the other end gates open on a long flight... it may save time overall for crewed boats (though I'm still unconvinced by the maths), but it certainly doesn't if you're on your own.

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But you'd quite obviously leave the gates for an approaching boat.

 

If you cannot see an approaching boat you have to shut up shop as the guidance suggests for good reasons.

 

Rog

If we can't see a boat traveling downstream toward us we empty a Nene lock as is the norm.

If a boat should appear into view while I'm lifting the guillotine gate I more often than not will drop it back down for them - especially if it hasn't lifted too far, after that it's their lock to refill. We get away leaving them a free landing stage to continue filling the lock and a little less work for the downstream boat.

It's frustrating for both parties but as no one is psychic or can see round corners you have to take it as the luck of the draw.

Every now and again we hit it right and meet a boat either coming downstream or just leaving the lock pen upstream, not often do the sun, moon and planets line up to have this happen though smile.png

Edited by gazza
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Ricco, you're on a roll today !

 

Can't remember the last time anyone posted something that got everyone 'at it' straight away, and you've done it twice straight off. I'd go buy a lottery ticket if I were you ;)

 

Rog

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But all rivers are not equal - see the Nene as above.

 

The MLC also ask that Ashline lock is left with downstream doors open, most seldom do so if leaving the levels as the penstocks/slackers/paddles are a right slow bugger to wind - result if you are heading away from Whittlesey with the lock in your favour though.....

Good reason for that, The owner of the house next to the lock does not want a swimming pool in his basement.

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At a bit of a tangent to this topic, I wonder whether gates really were less leaky in the past, before the post-war decline of the canals. Would the canal companies really have forked out promptly for repair or replacement as soon as a problem began, or are people romanticising the past?

 

On the wide bits of the GU all the bottom gates have leaks 2-3 feet above bottom water level, as the mating edges of the gates are worn away by the rubbing strips of narrow boats using single gates. (There is no corresponding problem with top gates as the wear takes place above top water level).

 

In working days the vast majority of passages would have been either wide boats (on the lower GU) or paired narrow boats, in both cases using both gates, and so the same level of wear would not have occurred, and so there wouldn't be the same leakage.

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Good reason for that, The owner of the house next to the lock does not want a swimming pool in his basement.

 

I followed an arse of the highest order off the Levels up the Nene, every lock was left full from Ashline until we thru the towel in at Stibbington - to say I was annoyed was an understatement, sadly due to having to work the locks thrice I couldn't catch the bastard! probably just as well, bit of river rage is no good for anyone smile.png

Edited by gazza
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Good reason for that, The owner of the house next to the lock does not want a swimming pool in his basement.

 

BTW, the new bywash gear looks a treat at Ashline, the MLC lads were just leaving after having a bit of an inspection of it as we went by the other week.

 

Now if they would just get rid of those hateful eyebolts and chains in the lock chamber.....

Edited by gazza
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