Does a Mooring Reset the 14 Days Rule ?

[Paul C]

Good question can anyone Paul? Lol

 

From what I've only read on here it means I have to move to another parish every 14 Days, how far who knows ?

 

We work on 4 miles every 7 days with 2 days back in the marina then 4 - 10 miles the opposite way out of the marina.

 

The norm around here is

 

14 Days - move up 3 mile

14 Days - move up 3 mile

 

Vice versa - this is not our pattern but it's works for others from what I can imagine.

 

That perfectly illustrates the confusion. There is no requirement for a home moorer to move to a different place after 14 days. That requirement is solely with CCers - its in the wording of the legislation

 

There is a second area whose time is 14 days - that of towpath moorings which aren't otherwise signed - the maximum stay, as detailed in the Terms and Conditions (not the law....unless the T&Cs are deemed to be legally binding, which has never been tested so remains indeterminate).

[Arthur Marshall]

 

That perfectly illustrates the confusion. There is no requirement for a home moorer to move to a different place after 14 days. That requirement is solely with CCers - its in the wording of the legislation

 

There is a second area whose time is 14 days - that of towpath moorings which aren't otherwise signed - the maximum stay, as detailed in the Terms and Conditions (not the law....unless the T&Cs are deemed to be legally binding, which has never been tested so remains indeterminate).

It's been accepted practice for as long as I've been boating, which is nigh on thirty years now, that you can stay at any spot on the towpath for up to 14 days unless it's signed otherwise. For home moorers, this may not be enshrined in legislation, but it's certainly been accepted as a "rule" by everyone I've known at my various moorings over that time. CRT have codified it into their T&Cs and sooner or later, no doubt, it'll go to court, CRT will probably win and everyone else will lose yet another bit of flexibility.

Sometimes, a certain amount of confusion is to everyone's advantage. Having every possible i dotted and every possible t crossed is not always an outcome to be desired.

[NigelMoore]

It's been accepted practice for as long as I've been boating, which is nigh on thirty years now, that you can stay at any spot on the towpath for up to 14 days unless it's signed otherwise. For home moorers, this may not be enshrined in legislation, but it's certainly been accepted as a "rule" by everyone I've known at my various moorings over that time.

 

It used to be longer. As I have observed elsewhere, from pre-BW days enforcement as in removing a boat on the towpath “to a convenient place” – at the owner’s expense - could take place under s.19(6) of the 1958 Act once a month had elapsed and a week’s notice ignored.

 

BW having reduced the tolerance period to a customary 14 days, they really missed a trick by abolishing s.19 in its entirety in 1983. Arguably, however [and I agree with the argument], any stay longer than that 14 days - or shorter when on public facilities - can be treated as obstruction and the boat moved away. The only power now missing from that course of action, following 1983, is charging the boater for the action.

 

[mayalld]

 

 

Are you being particularly unimaginiative today?

 

The problem is there is likely to be letters from CRT accusing them (incorrectly) of overstaying, and the OP will then have to waste time and effort explaining their movements to CRT.

 

Not a big problem, granted, but one likely to occur.

 

But that is just a feature of interactions with others.

 

From time to time, they will make an error, and you will have to explain it to them.

 

Last week the bank had the audacity to suggest that I'm insufficiently rich to have the bank account that I have with them, and wanted to take away my privileges (which actually amounts to the ability to get Morrisons vouchers for using the credit card).

 

I had to TELEPHONE them (oh the hardship of it), and explain that whilst I certainly don't earn the £100k that is their primary qualification, I do have investments (as a trustee) through them that meet the secondary qualification.

 

Problem solved (and an extra £25 of vouchers to say sorry for doubting me)

[Athy]

 

 

 

Problem solved (and an extra £25 of vouchers to say sorry for doubting me)

Morrison's Signature Range, here you come!

[Greylady2]

In theory yes, but in practice I'd say no.

 

The problem is, a CRT spotter is unlikely to record the absense of your boat for the three days, so the CRT komputa will assume you've been there the whole time.(Leading to them sending you letters.)

Komputas are taking over from people, what happened to knocking on a boat window and having a chat with someone made of flesh.

[dogless]

Komputas are taking over from people, what happened to knocking on a boat window and having a chat with someone made of flesh.

Strange you should say that. A young man from C&RT gave us a knock whilst we were at Nantwich, to say he'd clocked us Friday, and as it was Monday, we needed to move off the 48 hr moorings.

 

I explained we'd moved to Hurleston for the weekend and returned for our new cover fitting at 9am that morning, and therefore just moored up. He was more than happy. No problem and glad he knocked.

 

Rog

[Greylady2]

Strange you should say that. A young man from C&RT gave us a knock whilst we were at Nantwich, to say he'd clocked us Friday, and as it was Monday, we needed to move off the 48 hr moorings.

I explained we'd moved to Hurleston for the weekend and returned for our new cover fitting at 9am that morning, and therefore just moored up. He was more than happy. No problem and glad he knocked.

Rog

Proper nice that no hassle just job sorted, a good outcome Rog. :-)

 

Maybe we could have signs in our windows saying 'CRT just knock and have a chat with us if needed' :-)

[David Mack]

 

...that a mooring or other place where the vessel can reasonably be kept and may lawfully be left will be available for the vessel, whether on an inland waterway or elsewhere;"

 

Nothing here about the 14 day "rule".

 

The relevant bit for those with a home mooring is in the licence t&cs with nothing about the board getting satisfaction.

Except if they think, rightly or wrongly, that you haven't been using you home mooring they might conclude it is not 'available' and so when applying for licence renewal the onus might be back on you to satisfy the Board...

[Athy]

Except if they think, rightly or wrongly, that you haven't been using you home mooring they might conclude it is not 'available' and so when applying for licence renewal the onus might be back on you to satisfy the Board...

That's daft thinking. If you aren't using it, of course it's available, because it's empty. If you are using it, it's not available because it's full.

[Greylady2]

Except if they think, rightly or wrongly, that you haven't been using you home mooring they might conclude it is not 'available' and so when applying for licence renewal the onus might be back on you to satisfy the Board...

 

Luckily our Marina let's them in to register us offline, quite reassuring really and I am thinking of being on the jettie for 2 days on week days since someone told me the 'wardens' don't do weekends. ?

 

Why do I feel like I am driving a car but they don't tell me the rules until the letter tells us we've broke one

 

 

What sort of legislation can we follow with no real quide lines?

 

Tommy time guide to the Canals.Com

Edited June 27, 2016 by Greylady2

[onionbargee]

No, but then I don't envisage ever needing to.

From the tenor of your remarks I infer that you have had a problem arising from your mooring choices.

Oh, I don't have to demonstrate my innocence; CART have to demonstrate my guilt, as I hinted in post no.12.

You have to "satisfy the board" that you are genuinly CC'ing, rather than the board prove you weren't . so in this respect you are in theory guilty until proven innocent.

[onionbargee]

 

It used to be longer. As I have observed elsewhere, from pre-BW days enforcement as in removing a boat on the towpath to a convenient place at the owners expense - could take place under s.19(6) of the 1958 Act once a month had elapsed and a weeks notice ignored.

 

BW having reduced the tolerance period to a customary 14 days, they really missed a trick by abolishing s.19 in its entirety in 1983. Arguably, however [and I agree with the argument], any stay longer than that 14 days - or shorter when on public facilities - can be treated as obstruction and the boat moved away. The only power now missing from that course of action, following 1983, is charging the boater for the action.

 

I'm sure you know the T&C's schedule 2 (6) states that they think they can charge , citing 1983 sec 8 (5) ?

 

Surely not another lie ?

[Arthur Marshall]

Luckily our Marina let's them in to register us offline, quite reassuring really and I am thinking of being on the jettie for 2 days on week days since someone told me the 'wardens' don't do weekends. ?

 

Why do I feel like I am driving a car but they don't tell me the rules until the letter tells us we've broke one

 

 

What sort of legislation can we follow with no real quide lines?

 

Tommy time guide to the Canals.Com

CRT have already said thst home moorers have no problem with returning to the same spot regularly after a return to a home mooring. You really don't need to worry - most of us have been doing something similar for years and never had any problems whatsoever.

[Greylady2]

CRT have already said thst home moorers have no problem with returning to the same spot regularly after a return to a home mooring. You really don't need to worry - most of us have been doing something similar for years and never had any problems whatsoever.

Thanks Arthur for explaining it simply, CRT for a newbee like me is like the highway code book with bits missing.

 

Cheers

[Arthur Marshall]

Thanks Arthur for explaining it simply, CRT for a newbee like me is like the highway code book with bits missing.

 

Cheers

Most of it is common sense and a bit of consideration for others. I knew nothing about anything when I bought a boat in a fit of manic enthusiasm (and rare moment of having some money) all those years ago. I didn't even have a mooring sorted and the boat was a wreck but I've never had any hassle with BW or CRT. Refitting the boat was fun, the farm where I found a mooring was full of helpful boaters (including the engineer who i still regard as one of the best I've ever known) and I've never regretted a moment of it. The internet is a useful tool but you do need to regard some of the more aggressive posts with a tolerant scepticism. The specialist forums on here that deal with living on, or engine problems, maintenance etc, however are worth their weight in gold and heaving with seriously valuable expertise.

[Tony Dunkley]

CRT have already said thst home moorers have no problem with returning to the same spot regularly after a return to a home mooring. You really don't need to worry - most of us have been doing something similar for years and never had any problems whatsoever.

 

There shouldn't be any 'problems' whatsoever on any occasion when a boat returns to the same spot, or place, irrespective of whether or not it has returned to it's [home] mooring in the intervening time.

There is absolutely nothing in either statute or Byelaw that entitles C&RT to demand that a [home] mooring is used at all, let alone returned to regularly, and neither is there any sort of 'clock' that needs 're-setting', other than in the warped and feeble minds of a few ill-intentioned twerps at C&RT.

 

Thanks Arthur for explaining it simply, CRT for a newbee like me is like the highway code book with bits missing.

 

Cheers

 

You really should not lose sight of the fact that in buying a boat Licence you have bought and paid for the right to use the waterways under C&RT's control in much the same way as Taxing a motor vehicle entitles you to the use of public roads.

Taking your Highway Code analogy a little further, . . . would you find it acceptable to have DVLA or the Highways Agency dictating where, when, and how frequently you were allowed to use your car ?

[Mike Todd]

That's daft thinking. If you aren't using it, of course it's available, because it's empty. If you are using it, it's not available because it's full.

Not daft at all.The issue arose under circumstances where the boater cited a home mooring that was, in fact, shared with others and much of thew time was not available.

 

Many marinas strike a careful balance. To avoid issues over residential status their mooring contract allows or requires movement from one mooring location to another. In many cases you are not guaranteed the same place and it may well be let out in your absence. The balance is that they have to manage the mooring s so that when you do return, perhaps unannounced, there is a space for you. At the moment, most mooring providers do not have too much of a problem but in times of mooring shortages it could be.

 

But having a 'real' mooring is a necessity, short of making a CC declaration.

[Athy]

Not daft at all.The issue arose under circumstances where the boater cited a home mooring that was, in fact, shared with others and much of thew time was not available.

 

 

Ah, you have introduced a new factor, shared home moorings, which I must admit I hadn't heard of before.

[Greylady2]

Most of it is common sense and a bit of consideration for others. I knew nothing about anything when I bought a boat in a fit of manic enthusiasm (and rare moment of having some money) all those years ago. I didn't even have a mooring sorted and the boat was a wreck but I've never had any hassle with BW or CRT. Refitting the boat was fun, the farm where I found a mooring was full of helpful boaters (including the engineer who i still regard as one of the best I've ever known) and I've never regretted a moment of it. The internet is a useful tool but you do need to regard some of the more aggressive posts with a tolerant scepticism. The specialist forums on here that deal with living on, or engine problems, maintenance etc, however are worth their weight in gold and heaving with seriously valuable expertise.

Arthur you talk good sense and thank you.

 

I've got to say I love living aboard and hope I too will have no reason or need to talk to the crt for anything other than a new licence.

 

Cheers.

 

There shouldn't be any 'problems' whatsoever on any occasion when a boat returns to the same spot, or place, irrespective of whether or not it has returned to it's [home] mooring in the intervening time.

There is absolutely nothing in either statute or Byelaw that entitles C&RT to demand that a [home] mooring is used at all, let alone returned to regularly, and neither is there any sort of 'clock' that needs 're-setting', other than in the warped and feeble minds of a few ill-intentioned twerps at C&RT.

 

 

You really should not lose sight of the fact that in buying a boat Licence you have bought and paid for the right to use the waterways under C&RT's control in much the same way as Taxing a motor vehicle entitles you to the use of public roads.

Taking your Highway Code analogy a little further, . . . would you find it acceptable to have DVLA or the Highways Agency dictating where, when, and how frequently you were allowed to use your car ?

To answer that question 'No', boating should be enjoyed with basic clear guidelines but their not clearly explained by Crt in basic layman's terms to new boaters.

 

Tony I just want to boat freely like anyone else and enjoy the good life :-).

Edited June 28, 2016 by Greylady2

[carlt]

Except if they think, rightly or wrongly, that you haven't been using you home mooring they might conclude it is not 'available' and so when applying for licence renewal the onus might be back on you to satisfy the Board...

So what?

 

If the mooring is legitimate then it merely needs to exist and be available.

 

You are not obliged to use it.

Edited June 28, 2016 by carlt

[Paul C]

No it's not.

 

It is up to them to prove the validity of the mooring, not the other way round.

 

The only "satisfaction" necessary is when you declare no home mooring.

 

Worth a review of the wording in the legislation here.

[carlt]

 

Worth a review of the wording in the legislation here.

It certainly was...edited accordingly.

 

However it still doesn't present any problem for the boater with a legitimate mooring.

 

The mooring must exist and be available, that is all. The law does not require you to actually use it.

[Paul C]

It certainly was...edited accordingly.

 

However it still doesn't present any problem for the boater with a legitimate mooring.

 

The mooring must exist and be available, that is all. The law does not require you to actually use it.

 

CRT must be satisfied of this. In theory its possible there's a mooring which does exist and is available, but that CRT deem unsatisfactory. In practice that scenario has not occurred (yet).

[Tony Dunkley]

Arthur you talk good sense and thank you.

 

I've got to say I love living aboard and hope I too will have no reason or need to talk to the crt for anything other than a new licence.

 

Cheers.

 

To answer that question 'No' boating should be enjoyed with basic clear guidelines but their not clearly explained by Crt in basic layman's terms to new boaters.

 

Tony I just want to boat freely like anyone else and enjoy the good life :-).

 

That is something nether realistic, nor even remotely achievable until the national disaster that is C&RT becomes part of the 'history' they pretend to be so concerned about.

Being left in peace to enjoy what you've paid for should not be a matter of hoping for the good fortune and luck.*

 

*This post has been 'Moderated' to remove "abusive content".

For the information of anyone wondering what 'abusive content' needed 'moderating' out, it was simply a reference to the fact that some people who work in Milton Keynes suffer from an anatomical abnormality that causes the small bony protrusions on the backs of their hands to come into frequent contact with the ground.

The original, uncensored post is quoted in it's full abusive horror in post #56.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Tony Dunkley
Remove abusive content.