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wrigglefingers

Brexit

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And on the subject of mixed races in school, I got fed up of boys just walking into my dorm so I put this notice on the door.

 

12 other pupils kindly added a translation to my notice. (1965)

 

 

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Edited by Laurie.Booth

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Education should remain compulsory, but only English (or Welsh) speakers should be entitled to an education provided free, by the state.

 

If a non-English speaking family arrives in the UK they should arrange for English language teaching for their children (and ideally themselves) which could be subsidised by the state. Only when the children are tested and found to be competent to attend an English speaking class should those children be admitted to a state school.

Bloody hell does that apply to the so called English kids I hear sometimes talking some language I don't understand.

I am currently volunteering in a Refugee Camp in Greece with 175 Syrian Families the majority of the kids speak English as do a vast number of the parents so they should be OK to come over.

I always thought education was a government investing in the future of the young.

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I'm sure they would be OK to come over, and many others like them. But as there are already issues around school places any such moves can only compound the problem.

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Bloody hell does that apply to the so called English kids I hear sometimes talking some language I don't understand.

I am currently volunteering in a Refugee Camp in Greece with 175 Syrian Families the majority of the kids speak English as do a vast number of the parents so they should be OK to come over.

I always thought education was a government investing in the future of the young.

It is all about education, however that depends on who is doing the educating. Young people can become leaders of peace, equally, they can become terrorist.

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Bloody hell does that apply to the so called English kids I hear sometimes talking some language I don't understand.

I am currently volunteering in a Refugee Camp in Greece with 175 Syrian Families the majority of the kids speak English as do a vast number of the parents so they should be OK to come over.

I always thought education was a government investing in the future of the young.

Glad to hear that you are OK John how are conditions out there? My friend Alex from Athens tells me some stuff and how Brexit is all over the news out there but nothing about refugees etc

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Bloody hell does that apply to the so called English kids I hear sometimes talking some language I don't understand.

I am currently volunteering in a Refugee Camp in Greece with 175 Syrian Families the majority of the kids speak English as do a vast number of the parents so they should be OK to come over.

I always thought education was a government investing in the future of the young.

 

It's more like government ensuring they have a well educated workforce so that the people behind the people in power have a good supply of workers to maintain their opulent lifestyles.... but then I have a very cynical attitude to life cheers.gif

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Except that the only thing in the village apart from the school and pub and a hundred houses was an enormous scientific research establishment. With lots of visiting foreign scientists. So my kids class-mates were an endless rotation of immigrant's children from all over the world. Europe, America, Japan, India. And you know what? it was fantastic! There were problems with kids who had little English, but they didn't ever seem to last long, and the kids all benefited enormously from the widened horizons.

Although I imagine that the vast majority of these kids would be the children of well educated people. And the issues arising would not be typical of those faced in other schools with significant immigrant populations.

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Yesterday I was approached by a German investment company looking to invest in the UK smart gas meter industry and had singled us out as a potential.

 

Industry is still rolling onwards. Money talks.

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A school local to us has classes of 30, in each class an average of 16 languages are spoken.

The local authority is employing multiple translators in each class, and 'letters to parents' are in multiple languages.

 

Older children (from other classes) are bought in to assist the younger ones and each child has their photograph on the wall in the corridor with a list of languages spoken so other children can approach them and ask for help.

 

They do not have a 'nativity' at Christmas but do have a multicultural 'holiday party / show'.

 

I cannot imagine many other countries being so accommodating to immigrants.

Fascinating to see how the UK handles the "problem" of children arriving at school not speaking English.

Here in France the general way it is done is that the (usually English speaking) kid just starts in a school and learns VERY fast to speak French. My brother's 7 year old started in a village school in September and by the Christmas was effectively fluent without much drama or problems. I believe that in some schools here there are some teachers to help foreign arrivals, but not many.

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The last statistic I saw said that rest-of-EU migrants to the UK has paid £20Bn more in tax than they'd cost in state services, yet we're contemplating kicking them out. How can you be so sure that Spain won't do the same? Don't forget that those pensioners are expecting the Spanish state to provide them with healthcare - that's enough to make them net drain on the Spanish exchequer. Of course once we've left the EU, Spain will no longer be obliged to pay for the healthcare of the UK pensioners. Those with enough cash for private health will stay and the rest will be back here, registering for the NHS and joining the council house waiting lists. We'll have traded Polish plumbers clogging up the GP for British costa-rejects.

 

 

 

So where did you get the message that the rest of us missed that a vote for leave wouldn't affect free movement and immigration? That's the whole problem with the campaign, the voters for leave were all voting for different things and none of you is going to get what you thought you were.

 

MP.

Well I can't speak for what others wanted, but I got, possibly as it is still yet to happen, what I wanted. Whilst free movement would be nice to keep, subject to a little more oversight IMO, losing it was, again IMO, worth the price for the bigger prize. I do however except that lots of brexiteers were voting for different things. Having said that how many remainers were voting for, a single European state, a single currency, a European army. The list goes on and although none of that was going to happen overnight, be in no doubt that is the end game for the federalists in the EU.

Fascinating to see how the UK handles the "problem" of children arriving at school not speaking English.

Here in France the general way it is done is that the (usually English speaking) kid just starts in a school and learns VERY fast to speak French. My brother's 7 year old started in a village school in September and by the Christmas was effectively fluent without much drama or problems. I believe that in some schools here there are some teachers to help foreign arrivals, but not many.

And that is the correct way to do it, not the lilly livered namby pamby liberal nonsense we in the UK would use to do it.

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Fascinating to see how the UK handles the "problem" of children arriving at school not speaking English.

Here in France the general way it is done is that the (usually English speaking) kid just starts in a school and learns VERY fast to speak French. My brother's 7 year old started in a village school in September and by the Christmas was effectively fluent without much drama or problems. I believe that in some schools here there are some teachers to help foreign arrivals, but not many.

much the same in Wales although we do have language centres where the kids have an intensive few weeks to give them a hand starting and they are soon fluent.

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Although I imagine that the vast majority of these kids would be the children of well educated people. And the issues arising would not be typical of those faced in other schools with significant immigrant populations.

Indeed, and that's my point. To the extent that schools with significant immigrant populations face problems, it's because they faced problems anyway. Sure, high non-english-first-language levels are likely found in problem schools, but the problems don't arise from the immigrant kids. Immigrant kids end up in problem schools because immigrants don't generally get much choice about where they live and schools their kids attend. There's correlation between problem schools and immigrant levels, but no causation. I've given you an example that illustrates that a good school is still a good school even with many immigrant kids.

 

Success at school is, in my experience, very largely about kids attitude and parents expectations of them. Schools "fail" because their intake has the wrong culture to succeed. Adding kids to the mix who come from families with the get-up-and-go to change countries to succeed is likely to help, not hinder.

 

MP.

  • Greenie 1

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I've done a fair bit of reading up on all of this current situation and so here is the verdict. And, to be honest, it's not going to be totally predictable for anyone:

(1) Immigration: I agree this has been going way out of control but I don't see Brexit as a simple solution. If the U.K. wants access to the E.U. market, it seems the E.U. won't give ground on the free movement of people as a non-negotiable deal. If true, the U.K. will simply be forced to accept immigration as part of the deal. Or there is the option of not accepting free movement but that apparently could lead to a recession if trade suffers on the continent.

(2) Reality of Isolation? Nobody can say yet if the big chain corporations will simply invest in Europe due to its size and the single currency. The Euro isn't doing so fantastic but it covers a sphere of investment from France to Estonia, Germany and Poland. I know many years a go a lot of American and German money went into little E.U. countries like Estonia. How is sterling going to hold up against the dollar, euro and yen? The economy here isn't what it was some decades ago when there was a strong industrial base.

(3) Scotland. For Scotland to leave would be a huge blow. We've been England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales for a long time.

Much depends upon how the Euro holds out now. If it holds together, the U.K. could be in a tight spot. If somehow it unexpectedly starts to fracture, the Brexit could have a better perspective.

However, so far, it doesn't look like a good move at all.

Many voters I chatted to seem to have regretted their no vote.

There is also a funny story told to me by Lauren - a 20 something female shop worker. On hearing the Brexit vote succeed she said she was waiting for Boris Johnson to make some sort of a comment as she's now put her trust in him. Instead, he apparently did a runner and took to his heels, possibly shell-shocked he was faced with an aftermath. And now Lauren says she's worried as Boris was someone she'd trusted.



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It's more like government ensuring they have a well educated workforce so that the people behind the people in power have a good supply of workers to maintain their opulent lifestyles.... but then I have a very cynical attitude to life cheers.gif

Spot on Kev...there again I'm cynical and paranoid. :(

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Did Boris leave or was he push for the benefit of the bigger picture. I wonder too whether if the Chilcott report had come out earlier whether it too would have been a contributing factor in any result. It certainly reinforced my view of politicians. I hope the Mods do allow us to express our views. I for one have found this particular thread most stimulating with only the odd "catty" remarks.

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It's more like government ensuring they have a well educated workforce so that the people behind the people in power have a good supply of workers to maintain their opulent lifestyles.... but then I have a very cynical attitude to life cheers.gif

It's more likely they want a population utterly turned off from education. If they were educated they might start interfering. Skilled workers can be got more cheaply from overseas. The ideal result of British state education is an unemployed media studies graduate who has bought into a false promise of social mobility. Why do you think there is better education for those who can pay? It's so you can have a worse one for those who can't. A class based aparthied of opportunity.

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True,and it seems the EU now is simply a mirror of the USA with immigration set to erode any ethnic majority in each member State. Russia clearly chose another direction and there's now some speculation Brexit suited Russia. Russia has had a lot of immigration but doesn't want to be a multiracial society dictated to by the USA. It seems the UK is stuck between the whole EU USA scenario and not keen to be absorbed. I have to agree the EU has disappointed expectations but there ought to have been a better plan for Brexit. More gradual maybe

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Yesterday I was approached by a German investment company looking to invest in the UK smart gas meter industry and had singled us out as a potential.

 

Industry is still rolling onwards. Money talks.

 

Smart meters, an EU inspired and backed vehicle to enable global capital to have another risk free income stream

 

http://www.eib.org/infocentre/press/releases/all/2015/2015-287-british-homes-to-get-smart-meters-under-eur-315-billion-investment-plan-for-europe.htm

 

Without EU Directive 2009/72/EC there would be no Smart meters being installed

Edited by baz gimson

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Smart meters, an EU inspired and backed vehicle to enable global capital to have another risk free income stream

 

http://www.eib.org/infocentre/press/releases/all/2015/2015-287-british-homes-to-get-smart-meters-under-eur-315-billion-investment-plan-for-europe.htm

 

 

Timing was interesting.

 

After UK wants out.

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Timing was interesting.

 

After UK wants out.

 

so what......revenue stream would be there in or out...EU directive put into UK law.... fact is without the EU issuing the smart meter directives and companies lobbying for their preferred means of implementing smart metering to create an investment opportunity we wouldn't have them.

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I don't have to deal with the utility companies directly, living on the boat in a marina. However, a customer that did have to deal with the company supplying the electrics wanted to change supplier. The customer had a smart meter. The new supplier also used smart meters. The steps needed to change from one supplier to the new supplier would have meant having the current smart meter removed and a 'dumb' one replacing it. The new company would have to remove the dumb meter and replace it with a smart meter. The cost to the customer made changing suppliers a waste of time.

 

These smart meters might be 'smart' but the supply companies haven't got an integrated system to deal with it. I've only related the story of one customer that called into The Money Programme on BBC R4.

 

We are a bunch of numpties, competition has got us playing the market to find better deals. If you don't, remaining as a 'loyal' customer, you'll find yourself moved from the deal that attracted you to change supplier and you will end up on a more expensive tariff. Not really all that customer friendly is it, the market place.

 

Economic arguments to stay in the EU have been about as compelling as an invitation to go to a pickpockets' convention.

Edited by Higgs
  • Greenie 2

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so what......revenue stream would be there in or out...EU directive put into UK law.... fact is without the EU issuing the smart meter directives and companies lobbying for their preferred means of implementing smart metering to create an investment opportunity we wouldn't have them.

 

The wider point is that business is still marching on. Money wants to get best return.

Edited by mark99

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................. there ought to have been a better plan for Brexit. More gradual maybe

yeah, all counties starting with A to leave in 2017 and so on.

 

that would really have worked.

 

exit is about invoking Article 50, nothing more, nothing less.

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Daniel has posted on the locked thread. We are not allowed to debate politics.

 

As I said before allowing a Brexit discussion was strange when politics is banned. Its a bit like CRT people can live with the rules providing the rules don't keep changing, which they now appear to.

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