The earliest narrow boat preservation?

[Derek R.]

Ah, you once had a French girlfriend too.

 

Half French. Been married to her for 36yrs.

[captain birdseye]

Joel on the Ashton canal has been owned by the same group of people since the early seventies and is still in original condition

 

Follow linky http://www.brocross.com/canal/joel.htm

[Laurence Hogg]

Where does "Lady Hatherton" of the Staffs Worcs Co and "Kingfisher" of the GJCC, both inspection launches fit into all this, both are essentially complete and original? and narrow.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Laurence Hogg

[AMModels]

Where does "Lady Hatherton" of the Staffs Worcs Co and "Kingfisher" of the GJCC, both inspection launches fit into all this, both are essentially complete and original? and narrow.

saw something the other day about Lady H, shes on her 4th hull and 3rd superstructure or similar.

[Jrtm]

Would this count?

 

 

It's narrow and has been preserved !

Isnt there an older one there thas just a hollowed out tree or something?

[Jrtm]

Again was ross never converted or changed?

Pete you missed my point with grayhound i said something like (again just for clarity something like) but i do sort of see your point about boats like grayhound that were used for working but surly if there kept in original state it shouldnt matter if there working or not. But then again i gess that just makes the owners a number 1 rather than a fleet boat.

Peacock in my view is one of the few at the top of the list. (I had a pic somewhere of john using peacock for work not loaded they were using her anyways i know its an early pic as its before he reskinned the outside cabin as he never put the cabin foot stand back on after doing so) but i do agree its got to be one of the earlyest.

But again how has something like ross survived without being changed someone somewhere must have taken the decision not to convert it or scrap it fairly early on even if it was sold many times i dont think a change of owners should stop a boat being on the list as were talking about a conservation that could be early by say 3 popele that only had a boat 4 years but if it survived in original or close to original condition even after they sold it these popele would be on the list as one of the first groups / person

[pete harrison]

Again was ross never converted or changed?

Pete you missed my point with grayhound i said something like (again just for clarity something like) but i do sort of see your point about boats like grayhound that were used for working but surly if there kept in original state it shouldnt matter if there working or not. But then again i gess that just makes the owners a number 1 rather than a fleet boat.

Peacock in my view is one of the few at the top of the list. (I had a pic somewhere of john using peacock for work not loaded they were using her anyways i know its an early pic as its before he reskinned the outside cabin as he never put the cabin foot stand back on after doing so) but i do agree its got to be one of the earlyest.

But again how has something like ross survived without being changed someone somewhere must have taken the decision not to convert it or scrap it fairly early on even if it was sold many times i dont think a change of owners should stop a boat being on the list as were talking about a conservation that could be early by say 3 popele that only had a boat 4 years but if it survived in original or close to original condition even after they sold it these popele would be on the list as one of the first groups / person

But this thread is about early preservation, not how and why boats were purchased in more recent times. Every 'historic' boat purchased nowadays will undergo renovations of some kind that can be argued add to there preservation.

 

ROSS was purchased by Bill Brookes in 1972 . Mr Brookes subsequently put a cabin on ROSS and it became one of the many house boats at Gas Street Basin, Birmingham. Mr Brookes conversion of ROSS included the fitting of an outboard motor, and this boat was still in his ownership when it was returned to an open Ice Boat and placed at the Black Country Museum as an exhibit

[Ogwr]

Obviosly after Peacock but Gifford and Spey should be added to the list

[pete harrison]

Obviosly after Peacock but Gifford and Spey should be added to the list

This thread is not supposed to be about adding to a list, it is about identifying the earliest that a narrow boat was acquired for preservation.

 

If it were about adding to a list then we could just add every 'historic' narrow boat that is still extant

[Laurence Hogg]

"The earliest narrow boat preservation" was the title of this thread. I have to agree with Pete on FM&C "Peacock" being the first to preserved as it was, The second has to be British Waterways effort to preserve FM&C "Northwich" in the early 1960's. The third could be "Friendship" which has been conserved in as much original form as possible but is not afloat. This is a good way as it cuts down on maintenance.

 

Alongside those credit must be given to the officers of the British Transport Commission who realized the value of the remains of "Duchess Countess" and undertook the accurate drawings of the craft for future generations.

 

To my knowledge there are no other candidates which rate as preserved (or conserved in some way).

 

Lots of craft have survived, converted , cut down, being unconverted and returned to near original but this is not the same as choosing a boat to be preserved as from day one of the decision.

 

There were some sad losses too due to "Conversions", the last Somerset coal canal boat for one and the total loss of a wide beam London boat many of which were converted in the 60's.

 

I know many years ago there was plans to preserve a GUCCC boat in California but I believe this never went forward, however two trams did go to the USA a Liverpool "Baby Grand" and a Burton & Ashby car (since got back), whether these were connected I have no knowledge.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Laurence Hogg

[Jrtm]

If you read my post i did say about any groups or inderviduals that bought a boat early to preserve them but only had a few years to qualify as the earlyest (apart from peacock i dont really know of any as this was sold in the 50s) and cant think of any before 50s but i wasnt around

[Jrtm]

Anyone know when the 2 old boats in the port museum were started for preservation i mean the coal boat and the hollowed out tree

[Ray T]

Anyone know when the 2 old boats in the port museum were started for preservation i mean the coal boat and the hollowed out tree

 

Not so sure about the hollowed out tree, but the coal boat is a "starvationer"

 

http://www.canalarchive.org.uk/Tpages/html/T2790.html

 

Sorry, don't know when it was scheduled for preservation.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Ray T

[Pluto]

 

Not so sure about the hollowed out tree, but the coal boat is a "starvationer"

 

http://www.canalarchive.org.uk/Tpages/html/T2790.html

 

Sorry, don't know when it was scheduled for preservation.

It is one of the small maintenance boats, rather than one which carried coal. Three of these maintenance boats were preserved circa 1970; IIRC, one went to Dr David Owen at Manchester Museum, and this is the one at Ellesmere Port; one went to Salford Museum, which was displayed outside in Buile Hill Park; and I am not sure where the other went. It may be the one still sunk outside the newer canal entrance to the mine. Only one of the carrying mine boats was saved, and that went to the NCB Museum at Lound Hall. It was in poor condition and its remains are now at the National Mining Museum at Caphouse Colliery.

[pete harrison]

(apart from peacock i dont really know of any as this was sold in the 50s) and cant think of any before 50s but i wasnt around

All of the better known carriers (F.M.C. Ltd., G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd., 'Barlows', S. & C.C.Co. Ltd., S.U.R.C.Co. e.t.c.) sold boats to private individuals, some to continue carrying and several for house boat / pleasure boat conversions. These disposals are documented in relevant Company records.

 

I was not around in the 1950's either, and it is only as a result of continuous research in archives and private collections that this information is found. Trawling the internet and being speculative has no place in my world.

 

You are in a particularly good position to find the answers to several of the questions you pose as you have direct access to a private archive and its long term archivist

 

edit = and Thomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd. also sold its boats for house boat / pleasure boat conversions, although few prior to 1960.

Edited June 23, 2016 by pete harrison

[BWM]

I have not seen any evidence that John Hemelryk put PEACOCK back to work, in fact quite to the contrary Mr Hemelryk assisted with the operations of other carriers using their own boats (which I can provide evidence for). As usual I am happy to be corrected providing evidence is also forthcoming.

 

GREYHOUND did not come out of trade with Alfred Matty and Sons Ltd. until the early / mid 1980's (1985 I think), so this boat is not a contender - especially as following some renovations it returned straight back into trade, which I understand was the primary reason for its purchase

STAMFORD was converted to a house boat about 25 years ago

We looked at Stamford 12-14 years ago at the stink hole, she'd been converted but only lightly. Just a basic ply under cloth, even the chains were still in place!

[pete harrison]

We looked at Stamford 12-14 years ago at the stink hole, she'd been converted but only lightly. Just a basic ply under cloth, even the chains were still in place!

I have known STAMFORD for about 35 years, both as an unconverted boat and as a house boat.

 

Back in 1990 I started a photographic survey of all remaining Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. narrow boats, and I captured STAMFORD at Springwell on 08 August 1994. My photographs show STAMFORD to have a cabin conversion running down approximately half the length of the hold, with the remainder of the hold under cloths all the way to the deckboard. I updated my photographs on 04 July 1999 (Springwell) and 20 June 2007 (Braunston), and apart from a change in ownership and paint colour STAMFORD remained pretty much the same as my earlier photographs. I have not seen STAMFORD since photographing it at Braunston in 2007.

 

I completed my photographic survey of all remaining Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. narrow boats in about 2000, and several of the boats I captured have changed considerably since then and a few have been broken up

[srh18490]

Alongside those credit must be given to the officers of the British Transport Commission who realized the value of the remains of "Duchess Countess" and undertook the accurate drawings of the craft for future generations.

I am involved in the world of archaeology where this is known as 'preservation by record', and is used in cases where it is not possible to retain the actual site or building.

[roland elsdon]

The Stamford conversion I saw was circa 1986 graham Holland.

Stamford and bude. Conversion floor. 2 tons of road chips ply floor on top. Conversion ply to top plank from gunnels. Sort of fit out.

Bude Repeat.

They sold for 10000 in a carrier bag which we hid in the bilge of Thaxted in case the new owner 'came back at night' in the am we took the cash to the bank in Ricky and paid it in. Subsequent trips down the gu found the whole ' conversion' in various hedges . The motor later had an emergency docking, as the new owner didn't understand the phrase' do not do anything other than sweep the bottom with a very soft broom. Happy days. Graham spent the money founding ' legend narrowboats' a few of which you sometimes see.

[gazza]

Isnt there an older one there thas just a hollowed out tree or something?

Try this.

 

http://www.vivacity-peterborough.com/museums-and-heritage/flag-fen/discover-the-must-farm-boats/

 

 

 

Not on display yet as they are being stabilised, Francis Pryor's legacy to fenland is well worth a visit.

 

As for must farm and it's wider importance have a ferkle round this site

 

http://www.mustfarm.com/

 

Edited due to me being an IT failure

Edited June 23, 2016 by gazza

[AMModels]

Try this.

http://www.oocities.org/sunsetstrip/8163/def.htm

 

Not on display yet as they are being stabilised, Francis Pryor's legacy to fenland is well worth a visit.

 

As for must farm and it's wider importance have a ferkle round this site

 

http://www.mustfarm.com/

 

 

erm the oocities link might not be the one you meant to share......

[gazza]

 

 

erm the oocities link might not be the one you meant to share......

Ha ha!! TB strikes again. Will edit it