Floor support

[boathunter]

In the natural way of things, one thing leads to another. Whoops.

 

It started with some idiot flushing the remote vacuum cassette toilet without noticing it was full. I won't do that again! In fact I'll add a relay to switch it off when it's full I think.

 

Owners of such devices will have some insight into the consequences of doing that, but for the rest of you, after flushing the vacuum pump started up and being full, sucked something other than air through the charcoal filter and into the breather pipe.

 

Bad enough and luckily only pee'd in it, but cleaned up, fitted empty cassette, switched on to bubbling sounds in the breather pipe. Hmm. Also very smelly emanating from the filter connections.

 

Next I traced the breather pipe. It leaves the machine then runs through bathroom at floor level into the basin cabinet where it rises about 18" then loops back down into a plastic pipe about 12" high. Then it heads down, under the wall into the kitchen behind all the cabinets and rises to a skin fitting about 24" above floor level. So I have an 18" U of pipe rising each side of the wall and it contains you know what. It needs removing and replumbing without the convolutions.

 

It's lucky I have a good sense of humour. We'll get to the floor eventually.

 

In the kitchen to find out what was going on I removed panels at the back of the cupboards. I'd put the sink draining slowly down to being a boat, my camper doesn't drain quickly either. But the drain instead of ending at a 90deg skin fitting, has a T and another foot of pipe ending at a sink drain fitting floating in air. Half way along this pipe is a 90deg fitting that could have been used. The string that probably held the end high-ish, long since slipped, but still high up against a cupboard, just not quite high enough.

 

When I work out how I'll post up some pics, but suffice to say I've dismantled and chucked the tall unit with oven, fridge etc, removed sink, seperate drainer, hob. Removed and chucked crumbling worktop and units beneath. Removed and chucked the laminate floor and fibre board under that and I'm now looking at the ply floor, which I can push a screwdriver through one area.

 

Much as I'd like to remove the entire ply sheet, 12" of it is under a built in cabinet in the living area which contains a washing machine that the cabinet was built around. No chance of getting it out!

 

Common sense says make the washing machine removable while your at it, but there's not a lot of room to manouvre in here, I'd have to ruin a nice scumbled cabinet, and I was only try to fix the toilet!

 

So, the question is, if I cut out the effected area, how to support the new join and is this a good way forward? I think I'm likely to find paving slabs and foam blocks, the boat is 28 years old.

 

The main cause of the floor rot was not the sink drain. 15 years ago the gas fridge was removed. The outer vent cover was battered and despite a flappy cover fitted under it, I've seen the rain dripping steadily in and watched it track down to the floor. I can stop that and sort out the sink drain too. The rest of the plumbing doesn't show any signs of leaking and the pump never goes off unless I've used the taps so there's a positive.

[boathunter]

I've sorted the bog vent plumbing too. Glad that's done but after it's adventure there's now a leak which I've traced to the vacuum pump. I think it must have something stuck in a one way valve inside. I'll get the kitchen done before dismantling that!

Edited June 18, 2016 by boathunter

[boathunter]

Thinking about it before attacking the floor, it's likely any timber bearers under the rotten area of floor will also be rotten.

[boathunter]

I'm tempted to let it dry out and leave it. I can access the hull at various points including just downhill from the rot and right at the back and it's dry. More of a slow drip drip hopefully and limited in area. Maybe I could continue the bodgery and screw a sheet of plywood on top covering the area under the cabinets where the soft ply is.

[Chewbacka]

If the area of soft ply is not too big and you don't wish to replace it some wood hardener might help a lot.

I used it on the wood frame of my conservatory where some of the bottom corner joints had gone very soft.

Removed the real flaky stuff, then put this on and when it had set hard used some polyester filler to make good and repainted. I guess that was about 6 years ago and still ok. It soaks in well and sets hard.

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/ronseal-wet-rot-wood-hardener-clear-500ml/63540?_requestid=105024

[boathunter]

If the area of soft ply is not too big and you don't wish to replace it some wood hardener might help a lot.

I used it on the wood frame of my conservatory where some of the bottom corner joints had gone very soft.

Removed the real flaky stuff, then put this on and when it had set hard used some polyester filler to make good and repainted. I guess that was about 6 years ago and still ok. It soaks in well and sets hard.

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/ronseal-wet-rot-wood-hardener-clear-500ml/63540?_requestid=105024

Good call, thank you. The surface is still level so this could be the answer. With new click flooring and a cabinet on top, as long as it stays dry. I need to get on with this I had to make coffee in the camper this morning. Everything else is ready to go...

[Bee]

I sympathise, I have to overhaul our vacuflush then sort out a leaking calorifier then some other horrid stuff. Tanalised timber under the floor is the stuff if you have to go right back to basics. Ordinary ply is fine if there are no more leaks.

[boathunter]

I sympathise, I have to overhaul our vacuflush then sort out a leaking calorifier then some other horrid stuff. Tanalised timber under the floor is the stuff if you have to go right back to basics. Ordinary ply is fine if there are no more leaks.

Hmmm. Vacuflush, I wouldn't buy one. Over complicated or what! In fact I'd get rid but for one large problem. Getting the main pipe out from under the floor without it leaving any contents behind. Knowing my luck someone will have secured the middle then built the shower on top. Grrr.

 

I've been out and got some wet rot wood hardener as suggested and a large cream cake, I can see light at the end of the tunnel.

[Tuscan]

We were pursuaded to buy a domestic vacuflush when having our boat fitted out, noisy and the small tanks filled too quickly. After 2 years of moaning we bit the bullitt had it taken out and had a thetford with flush plumbed in. Easier to remove cassette and silent use, much happier.

[boathunter]

We were pursuaded to buy a domestic vacuflush when having our boat fitted out, noisy and the small tanks filled too quickly. After 2 years of moaning we bit the bullitt had it taken out and had a thetford with flush plumbed in. Easier to remove cassette and silent use, much happier.

I think that says it all. The cassette is under the bed! What jumbled mind thought that was a good idea? It would have fitted in the bathroom with some thought and at least limited the flippin thing to fouling up just one area.

[DHutch]

I am suprised they don't have a system to prevent over filling and carryover.

 

 

Daniel

[Neil Smith]

Regarding your pipe full of s--t you could try blowing it through with an air compressor from toilet end to skin fitting.

 

Neil

[boathunter]

I am suprised they don't have a system to prevent over filling and carryover.

 

 

Daniel

There is a warning light showing it's full, but not fully understanding to consequences...

[boathunter]

Regarding your pipe full of s--t you could try blowing it through with an air compressor from toilet end to skin fitting.

 

Neil

I cleared it with a cheap windscreen washer pump, yanked out the extra pipe and have now routed it without the extra poo catching U bend.

 

Floor treated with a whole can of rot hardener over 2 sq ft, half click floor laid and one new carcass built on top. I feel better about the bodgery now I can't see it.

[Chewbacka]

There is a warning light showing it's full, but not fully understanding to consequences...

Not sure about your system, but on the Sanimarin toilet controller there is the option to connect a full float switch which when operated allows just 1 more flush.

Maybe worth looking in the manual to see if yours will do the same.

I also put a couple of extra float switches in, one about 2" and one about 6" both connected to red LED's with a little push to make switch by the toilet. So lets me know when the tank is about 75% and 90% full.

[boathunter]

Not sure about your system, but on the Sanimarin toilet controller there is the option to connect a full float switch which when operated allows just 1 more flush.

Maybe worth looking in the manual to see if yours will do the same.

I also put a couple of extra float switches in, one about 2" and one about 6" both connected to red LED's with a little push to make switch by the toilet. So lets me know when the tank is about 75% and 90% full.

Mine is remote cassette. I guess even using the full signal wire to switch it off will allow another flush because it makes the vacuum before lighting the light. Looking back I flushed it when I couldn't get the cassette off and thought the vacuum had hold of it.

 

On a more general note, this thing must have been regularly causing problems, the previous owner fitted an on/off switch just above the bed headboard.

[Chewbacka]

Mine is remote cassette. I guess even using the full signal wire to switch it off will allow another flush because it makes the vacuum before lighting the light. Looking back I flushed it when I couldn't get the cassette off and thought the vacuum had hold of it.

 

On a more general note, this thing must have been regularly causing problems, the previous owner fitted an on/off switch just above the bed headboard.

Unless the switch was to prevent others firing up the toilet whilst he was asleep and making a startling noise close to his head

[Claude]

I've had a Vacuflush cassette toilet on my boat for the past 11 years and I'm very happy with it. Once the cassette is full a red light should illuminate and it shouldn't flush. Mine doesn't anyway.

[aread2]

There is a warning light showing it's full, but not fully understanding to consequences...

It should stop well before it reaches that stage. There's a float switch that should prevent the pump from pumping well before the contents reach the vacuum pipe, even with another flush on the residual vacuum. I have read somewhere that the float in the cassette can jam with scale, preventing it from moving. It should rattle a bit when the cassette is empty. I don't know if it's possible to even see the float to check up it's jammed.

[boathunter]

It should stop well before it reaches that stage. There's a float switch that should prevent the pump from pumping well before the contents reach the vacuum pipe, even with another flush on the residual vacuum. I have read somewhere that the float in the cassette can jam with scale, preventing it from moving. It should rattle a bit when the cassette is empty. I don't know if it's possible to even see the float to check up it's jammed.

In that case I'm stuffed. I'll have to guess when it needs emptying and beat the full light. I'm not terribly keen on the idea of dismantling a cassette.

[Bee]

The Vacuflush is OK, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement but it is at least a 'proper' loo even though it depends on '0' rings and micro switches rather too much. If I was to design the best loo for boats I would probably end up with an Elsan and my wife would refuse to set foot on the boat so it stays.

[boat fan]

Just a note on wood rot guys ; once rot spores have migrated inside plywood ( or any wood for that matter ) , the affected pieces should be cut out and removed entirely.

 

Shipwrights working on older wooden vessels usually cut well beyond the apparent rot for good reason , because the active rot spores have migrated further than the soft areas.

 

When replacing / grafting in new wood , the area in question should be thoroughly dried out too so as not to feed any of the remaining the spores.

All this may sound a little dramatic , but its the only way to do this kind of repair properly. All the surrounding older wood that remains and appears sound should be treated with Copper Napthenate or other good timber preservative , to make sure all the active spores are killed off.

[boathunter]

Just a note on wood rot guys ; once rot spores have migrated inside plywood ( or any wood for that matter ) , the affected pieces should be cut out and removed entirely.

 

Shipwrights working on older wooden vessels usually cut well beyond the apparent rot for good reason , because the active rot spores have migrated further than the soft areas.

 

When replacing / grafting in new wood , the area in question should be thoroughly dried out too so as not to feed any of the remaining the spores.

All this may sound a little dramatic , but its the only way to do this kind of repair properly. All the surrounding older wood that remains and appears sound should be treated with Copper Napthenate or other good timber preservative , to make sure all the active spores are killed off.

Yeah, but, I'd have to remove half the interior to do that.

 

Window in kitchen area is leaking too. Grr. In a week or so the boat will be out in a shed for blacking and I was intending to have the windows out and refit them anyway.

 

New question, I could use butyl mastic strip or a modern closed cell foam strip, then around the perimeter with I guess Tiger seal or similar. Q is tradditional butyl or modern foam?

[boat fan]

Butyl is great , personally , I`m sticking with it.

 

You may disagree.....

[Chewbacka]

Just a note on wood rot guys ; once rot spores have migrated inside plywood ( or any wood for that matter ) , the affected pieces should be cut out and removed entirely.

 

Shipwrights working on older wooden vessels usually cut well beyond the apparent rot for good reason , because the active rot spores have migrated further than the soft areas.

 

When replacing / grafting in new wood , the area in question should be thoroughly dried out too so as not to feed any of the remaining the spores.

All this may sound a little dramatic , but its the only way to do this kind of repair properly. All the surrounding older wood that remains and appears sound should be treated with Copper Napthenate or other good timber preservative , to make sure all the active spores are killed off.

Don't disagree but I think it is important to differentiate between wet rot and dry rot. If dry rot the spores do spread a long way and must be cut out but for wet rot the rotten wood should be removed and then wood hardener used, it is less critical with wet rot to cut back, and I think I am correct in saying that once the source of wetness is removed the wet rot stops. So in an ideal world cut it all out, but if only wet rot is present and it's not structural I would be a lot less worried.

Obviously in a wooden ship you don't want any weak or slowly rotting timbers and taking a risk here is not a good idea.