Imperial gas pipe - alternative sources?

[Alan de Enfield]

I have bss 3.0 January 2013 and section 7.8 lpg pipework, joints and connections just state lpg pipework must be made of either seamless copper tube, or stainless steel tube, or copper nickel alloy. there is no mention of wall thickness.

 

Neil

 

Solely because a BSS inspector could not ascertain the wall thickness.

However the BSS does say that the piping should be in compliance with the relevant ISO. (as detailed above)

[bag 'o' bones]

A gas pipe meeting the required standard is stamped with the relevant bs number every few inches. 1059 wall thickness will be a minimum of 0.6

Edited June 7, 2016 by bag 'o' bones

[Murflynn]

 

BS EN 10239:2014 - Small craft - Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) systems

Quote:

“6.2 Piping

6.2.1 Only solid drawn copper or drawn stainless steel piping, which are galvanically compatible, shall be used for rigid supply lines. Wall thickness for piping shall be greater than 0,6 mm for piping up to 12 mm outside diameter and a minimum of 0.9 mm for an outside diameter greater than 12 mm”.

 

 

that seems to suggest that standard microbore tubing (10mm x 0.7mm) is now permissible for lpg use on boats.

 

 

............. but be careful because it kinks as soon as you look at it, and kinks are not allowed by the BSS guide section 7.8.1.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Murflynn

[bag 'o' bones]

According to the document 0.5 is being considered for the next up-date!

Edited June 7, 2016 by bag 'o' bones

[bag 'o' bones]

I have bss 3.0 January 2013 and section 7.8 lpg pipework, joints and connections just state lpg pipework must be made of either seamless copper tube, or stainless steel tube, or copper nickel alloy. there is no mention of wall thickness.

 

Neil

Considering that the general trend for copper gas pipe wall thicknesses have been going down rather than up in recent years perhaps suggests that any copper pipe from a reputable supplier has been suitable from a mechanical point of view for carrying gas in a marine environment?

 

Dunno.....perhaps too much of a guess considering the safety implications

that seems to suggest that standard microbore tubing (10mm x 0.7mm) is now permissible for lpg use on boats.

 

 

............. but be careful because it kinks as soon as you look at it, and kinks are not allowed by the BSS guide section 7.8.1.

Well assuming microbore is drawn to BS 1059 then I guess so. Not come across anything to the contrary, unless it hiding in some other mildly obscure bs document!

 

Have full access to just about every BS document by the way...........

Edited June 7, 2016 by bag 'o' bones

[MtB]

 

Have full access to just about every BS document by the way...........

 

 

What does PD54823:2016 say on the subject?

[Neil Smith]

I just used 10mm copper gas pipe from my local plumbers, you can put bends in it without kinking with a cheap mini pipe bender and where it passes through the bulkhead I used a compression fitting but drilled it out so the pipe passes through without cutting it so one less joint to leak.

 

Neil

[bag 'o' bones]

 

 

What does PD54823:2016 say on the subject?

PD 54823:2016 - Guidance for the design, commissioning and maintenance of LPG systems in small craft

As I said this this document is supplement to BS EN 10239:2014 - it is not a British Standard in itself. If the text contradicts a standard then the standard take precedence.

The relevant quote:

“6.2 Piping

All additional piping should be installed in accordance with

BS EN ISO 10239:2014.

The following should be used for replacement piping:

a) seamless copper tube conforming to BS EN 1057;

NOTE 1 Copper tube conforming to BS EN 12449 is equivalent to that conforming to BS EN 1057.

rigid stainless steel tube conforming to BS 6362;

c) pliable corrugated (stainless steel) tubing (PCT) conforming to BS 7838; and

d) copper nickel alloy, of a grade suitable for use with LPG and a marine environment (for existing systems only).

Except for PCT, wall thickness for piping should be equal to or greater than 0.6 mm for piping up to 12 mm outside diameter, and a minimum of 0.9 mm for piping greater than 12 mm outside diameter.BS EN 10239:2014 - Small craft - Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) systems”

Edited June 8, 2016 by bag 'o' bones

[Alan de Enfield]

But of course, it should be remembered, ISO 10239 does allow for the full system to be installed in 'flexible hose' (ie no copper piping) as is evidenced by both the European boat manufacturers practices, and, the notes in the BSS.

[bag 'o' bones]

But of course, it should be remembered, ISO 10239 does allow for the full system to be installed in 'flexible hose' (ie no copper piping) as is evidenced by both the European boat manufacturers practices, and, the notes in the BSS.

The relevant section:

 

6.3 Hoses and hose lines

6.3.1 Materials and components of hose assemblies shall be designed to be suitable for LPG and to

withstand the stresses and exposures found in the marine environment.

6.3.2 Hoses shall not be routed through an engine compartment and shall be of minimum practical length.

6.3.3 Hoses shall have permanently attached end fittings, such as swaged sleeve or sleeve and threaded

insert, and shall be capable of being reached for inspection, removal or maintenance without removal of

a permanent craft structure. Hoses shall be installed so as to avoid stress or tight radius turns.

6.3.4 Hose connections shall be readily accessible and stress free, i.e. not subjected to tension or kinking

under any conditions of use.

6.3.5 Hoses used for LPG supply line shall be continuous and have no joints or fittings from within

the cylinder locker or cylinder housing to the appliances, or the readily accessible shut off valve near

the appliance (see 6.6.3), except where metallic supply piping is connected to flexible hose leading to a

movable appliance, such as a gimballed stove.

[Hairy Animal]

Many thanks bag o' bones for the quotes from the relevant standards. At 88 Swiss Francs for the ISO standards and £208 for BS papers it isn't practical to buy such things for every decision we need to make during our restoration.

 

This wonderful forum is always such a helpful and friendly place to get information.

[Chewbacka]

Many thanks bag o' bones for the quotes from the relevant standards. At 88 Swiss Francs for the ISO standards and £208 for BS papers it isn't practical to buy such things for every decision we need to make during our restoration.

 

This wonderful forum is always such a helpful and friendly place to get information.

But you can read them - but not print - on the Manchester Library web site.

This may work http://www.manchester.gov.uk/directory_record/162241/british_standards_online

 

Added - It may require that you are using a UK IP address.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Chewbacka

[Hairy Animal]

But you can read them - but not print - on the Manchester Library web site.

This may work http://www.manchester.gov.uk/directory_record/162241/british_standards_online

 

Added - It may require that you are using a UK IP address.

Brilliant! Apart from the browser making life difficult because the site isn't HTTPS, it seems to work very nicely thanks.

[Chewbacka]

Brilliant! Apart from the browser making life difficult because the site isn't HTTPS, it seems to work very nicely thanks.

It's very useful if fitting out a boat yourself and want to comply to the RCD regs.

When I finally finish the tech manual and the user manual I'll be able to self certify.............................

 

 

Added

From memory the self cert person only has to make the tech manual available for 10 years, at my current rate of progress the 10 years will be up before the tech manual is finished................

Edited June 10, 2016 by Chewbacka