Taking 2 narrowboats to Europe

[Joelsanders]

A friend and I have talked for years about taking our boats to France and living abroad for a year. Has anyone here done this with a narrowboat or have knowledge of how to turn this dream into a viable, safe reality? Tug? Lorry? And costs? 'Narrow Dog To Carcassonne' was published in 2006 so really hoping for the most recent , practical information & options available.

Merci beaucoup

Edited June 1, 2016 by Joelsanders

[haggis]

You may find it useful to delve into the blog of Bill at http://rosylog.blogspot.co.uk/He and his narrow boat are back in the UK but he spent several years boating in Europe.

 

Haggis

[Alan de Enfield]

A friend and I have talked for years about taking our boats to France and living abroad for a year. Has anyone here done this with a narrowboat or have knowledge of how to turn this dream into a viable, safe reality? Tug? Lorry? And costs? 'Narrow Dog To Carcassonne' was published in 2006 so really hoping for the most recent , practical information & options available.

Merci beaucoup

 

Giving it a "Lidl" thought, there "Asda" be a number of "Safeways", but concluded that really the only "Safeway" is 'Truck' (but get there before June 23rd or they might not let you in if we are no longer 'club members').

 

If you can "Co-Opt" a friend it will reduce costs, but make sure you do not go via "Iceland"

[Joelsanders]

You may find it useful to delve into the blog of Bill at http://rosylog.blogspot.co.uk/He and his narrow boat are back in the UK but he spent several years boating in Europe.

 

Haggis

Thanks for the link

[magnetman]

Forum member Cariad crossed the channel both ways in an ordinary 57(?)ft narrow boat with an ordinary 45ish horsepower engine a few years ago.

 

And a fairly ordinary narrow boat crossed from Queenborough to Calais a few weeks ago as I understand it. It is do-able but definitely needs proper preparations

[Joelsanders]

Giving it a "Lidl" thought, there "Asda" be a number of "Safeways", but concluded that really the only "Safeway" is 'Truck' (but get there before June 23rd or they might not let you in if we are no longer 'club members').

 

If you can "Co-Opt" a friend it will reduce costs, but make sure you do not go via "Iceland"

Thank you for placing your thoughts in my bagging area

[JessicaBOO]

You need your CEVNI for BOATING abroad - http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/boatingabroad/icc/Pages/cevnitest.aspx

[magnetman]

 

Giving it a "Lidl" thought, there "Asda" be a number of "Safeways", but concluded that really the only "Safeway" is 'Truck' (but get there before June 23rd or they might not let you in if we are no longer 'club members').

 

If you can "Co-Opt" a friend it will reduce costs, but make sure you do not go via "Iceland"

If you do the trip coming back there is a super market currently for helping Aldi migrants come to england. Could be a real costcutter for the skipper.

Thank you for placing your thoughts in my bagging area

Do you need More Reasons

[Joelsanders]

Forum member Cariad crossed the channel both ways in an ordinary 57(?)ft narrow boat with an ordinary 45ish horsepower engine a few years ago.

And a fairly ordinary narrow boat crossed from Queenborough to Calais a few weeks ago as I understand it. It is do-able but definitely needs proper preparations

Hats off to Cariad but I don't think we would have the courage to take that risk, even tied abreast.

[magnetman]

 

 

For cevni and ICC I can recommend Bisham Abbey sailing school at Marlow. Nice people to deal with. I did my ICC, Cevni and VHF certificate there a few years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

Have you visited French waterways? They are rather different to English waterways.

Hats off to Cariad but I don't think we would have the courage to take that risk, even tied abreast.

I think tying two narrowboats together (ratchet straps all the way round?) Is asking for much more trouble than single boats close to each other but not in contact.

Tuckeys is a good boat transporter

[ditchcrawler]

http://contentedsouls.com/took their boat over and have since bought a barge. Wandering Snail has done it twice http://wanderingsnail.blogspot.co.uk/

[Joelsanders]

Ok. Thanks all. That's plenty of great info to get us started.

[sailor0500]

Hello. I dont want to put the damper on things but a word of warning about living aboard in France. If you go to France and stay for longer than six months in any year you must register as a French tax payer whether you work or not. You also must join their social security system and health insurance which is much more expensive than ours. Be warned. The penalties for not complying with this are severe. People have been ignoring this for years and the authorities turned a blind eye but they are now pursuing people as they have found this an easy source of much needed income.Also the paperwork is a nightmare even if you speak the language.

[Joelsanders]

Hello. I dont want to put the damper on things but a word of warning about living aboard in France. If you go to France and stay for longer than six months in any year you must register as a French tax payer whether you work or not. You also must join their social security system and health insurance which is much more expensive than ours. Be warned. The penalties for not complying with this are severe. People have been ignoring this for years and the authorities turned a blind eye but they are now pursuing people as they have found this an easy source of much needed income.Also the paperwork is a nightmare even if you speak the language.

Thanks. Maybe I'll have to settle for Berkhamsted. They have a Cafe Rouge and I have a good imagination.

[Phil Ambrose]

Terry Darlington has his email address in his book and is or at least was very free with advice when asked for it. There is a wealth of info to be found online regarding being expat boaters in France, you just need to look.

Phil

[peterboat]

Hello. I dont want to put the damper on things but a word of warning about living aboard in France. If you go to France and stay for longer than six months in any year you must register as a French tax payer whether you work or not. You also must join their social security system and health insurance which is much more expensive than ours. Be warned. The penalties for not complying with this are severe. People have been ignoring this for years and the authorities turned a blind eye but they are now pursuing people as they have found this an easy source of much needed income.Also the paperwork is a nightmare even if you speak the language.

I thought you could only pay tax in one country? is it one eu rule for us and a different one for them?

[Bee]

Lorry, By the time you have waited for a weather window in Ramsgate for weeks and engaged a bit of professional help you will have spent a lot anyway, Have used CPL twice to take Bee across the channel. The big commercial canals are hard in a narrowboat, the Burgundy and more Southern canals are fine. Can supply a few more details in a week or so, Am off to France right now to chuck the spiders off the boat. Its worth the effort.

[john6767]

I thought you could only pay tax in one country? is it one eu rule for us and a different one for them?

Not an expert but that is sort of true. Our daughter lived and worked in Spain for two years and she paid tax there, was registered as a "citizen" so that she had access to medical etc, and I believe she could have voted there. The UK still required her to do a tax form but as there is a reciprocal tax agreement with Spain (and I assume also with France) you get credit for the tax you pay abroad. In fact as Spain has no personal allowance like we have, you pay tax on all your earnings, one year she actuall got a refund of tax payed in Spain fron HMRC, that was a surprise.

[Claude]

Hello. I dont want to put the damper on things but a word of warning about living aboard in France. If you go to France and stay for longer than six months in any year you must register as a French tax payer whether you work or not. You also must join their social security system and health insurance which is much more expensive than ours. Be warned. The penalties for not complying with this are severe. People have been ignoring this for years and the authorities turned a blind eye but they are now pursuing people as they have found this an easy source of much needed income.Also the paperwork is a nightmare even if you speak the language.

There are thousands of Brits living in France including some of my friends. If they've all managed to deal with (or ignore) the bureaucracy it can't be that difficult.

[Arthur Brown]

Most of Europe is finding money tight now that they have millions of refugees from middle eastern conflict, so expect there to be many checks on your entitlement to be there and to have any benefits there. In France expect all the civil forms to be in government jargonese French with no translation and little free help.

 

Remember that red diesel doesn't exist for continental leisure boating -flush your system before you get a truck over there.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Arthur Brown

[magnetman]

Lorry, By the time you have waited for a weather window in Ramsgate for weeks and engaged a bit of professional help you will have spent a lot anyway, Have used CPL twice to take Bee across the channel. The big commercial canals are hard in a narrowboat, the Burgundy and more Southern canals are fine. Can supply a few more details in a week or so, Am off to France right now to chuck the spiders off the boat. Its worth the effort.

This got me wondering - would a haulage company be able to place two narrow boats side by side on the back of the wagon? I think they can carry pretty wide gear although I believe above 3.5m or something it becomes much more expensive as you need an escort or something.

 

I'm not sure its worth it for just a year living on France (whereabouts?) If you wanted to live in Paris it is not the same deal as living in London on the cut!!

 

If you wanted to live in a nice quiet place on the canal de Bourgogne then it would be easier I think.

[Witchword]

I thought you could only pay tax in one country? is it one eu rule for us and a different one for them?

Yes, that's right, you'd stop paying tax in the UK if you were in France for that year, or more than half of a year as pp said. You can later claim back the NI contributions from the other EU country's social security system if you return to the UK and claim a pension within a certain time (it didn't work for me as I was too young when I came back, according to HMRC!).

Not an expert but that is sort of true. Our daughter lived and worked in Spain for two years and she paid tax there, was registered as a "citizen" so that she had access to medical etc, and I believe she could have voted there. The UK still required her to do a tax form but as there is a reciprocal tax agreement with Spain (and I assume also with France) you get credit for the tax you pay abroad. In fact as Spain has no personal allowance like we have, you pay tax on all your earnings, one year she actuall got a refund of tax payed in Spain fron HMRC, that was a surprise.

Sorry, should have read the whole thread before replying!

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

We went on a trip with Tam and Di Murrel http://www.bargehandling.com/Bargehandling.com/Welcome.html to find if we wanted to take our barge to France, while we where there we looked at different boatyards to unload from a low loader. Decided that it wasn't for us so it was a good investment, they take two couples on a weeks trip on whichever canal they are on. France is in flood at the moment scary. see their blog. Cranage and two lorries, arrange cranage in France If you get into trouble crossing the Channel you could loose everything.

Edited June 2, 2016 by The Bagdad Boatman (waits)

[magnetman]

Are they still doing it? I thought they had retired their rather nice vessel Friesland was up for sale.

 

 

Good idea to have a look at French waterways first. Even just driving about and walking up and down the chemin d'halage gives one a good impression of how different it is to the UK waterways.

 

My childrens maternal grandparents live in Dijon so we go there regularly. Not sure about boating there - may do it one day but it doesn't really appeal to me in the same way as for example the Grand Union or Thames. Its a different scale.

And full of froggies of course

(My misses and children are French BTW)

[Tam & Di]

If you go to France and stay for longer than six months in any year you must register as a French tax payer whether you work or not. You also must join their social security system and health insurance which is much more expensive than ours.

 

In theory, and if you are buying a house. If you are "sans adresse fixée" things are a lot more grey. There are dozens of barge owners, particularly in France and the Netherlands, who do spend at least 6 months but who are outside of the French/Dutch etc schemes.

 

 

Remember that red diesel doesn't exist for continental leisure boating -flush your system before you get a truck over there.

 

You don't need to do that. But you do need to buy white fuel over here and keep the invoices so that if you get checked you can show them. It is also a good idea to keep some sort of log showing how many hours you've used the engine to help substantiate the reason why there are still traces of red in the tank. You can still use red (fioul) for generators and central heating, so separate tanks are worth consideration.

 

Several comments here are very valid - narrow boats are far from ideal on the larger waterways, both in their motive power and their manoeuvrability but also in passage of locks. Locks are worked very differently to those in the UK - other than some of the Midi and Garonne you do not get off the boat and lock keepers work them for you either manually of remotely from a cabin. Some locks are extremely fierce fillers and you must have a technique to cope with this. To slip in a sneaky ad, there is a dvd available showing this - the Darlingtons came to us for training too . You also need appropriate gear - bollards tend to be at least 40m apart, for the standard Freycinet peniche, so you need lines long and strong enough for this. VHF is not mandatory for craft under 20m generally, but other than the little waterways like the Midi etc it is extremely useful and it is mandatory for all craft if you intend to cruise through Paris (and why the hell wouldn't you??).

 

Finally, CWDF is brilliant and many of us with a more or less permanent base in France contribute, but if you are seriously thinking of bringing a boat here you should look in at the DBA forum (and probably join the DBA) as that has the greatest in depth information on all aspects of cruising on the continent, including social aspects such as communications, health etc.

 

Tam (not dead yet)

 

 

edit for typo!

Edited June 2, 2016 by Tam & Di