CRT historic map

[AMModels]

CRT have been very proudly announcing their new interactive map of the waterways, construction, closures and retorations.

 

Sadly its not as great as they claim I only looked at the Wyrley and Essington and the very obvious mistakes are the Hatherton branch starting from Lord Hays branch and not the Extension, plus the original main line from Wyrley bank to Sneyd being missed completely.

 

Im sure courses of other canals are wrong with the Basingstoke being one that looks off.

 

https://canalrivertrust.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=bc85e84c7069427ca87174490b03a08d

 

 

Oh Ocker bonk never had a canal either....

 

I think its great they are doing something like this but surely they should make it as accurate as possible before trumpeting its arrival?

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

Thanks for drawing this to my attention.

 

It does have the Stover canal though, which I had never heard of until this hit the news recently

 

http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/200-year-old-canal-barge-unearthed-archaeologists/story-29337978-detail/story.html

 

I couldn't see the Exeter Ship canal. And the MSC and Bridgewater are also missing, ditto all the (open) EA waterways eg in the Fens, and the Warwks Avon, Wey, Basingstoke, indeed any open navigations run by others.

 

It does have the Bedford / Milton Keynes link, though, and the Basingstoke/Kennet link....

[RLWP]

Should it get completed, the Hatherton branch will go off the Lord Hayes

 

Richard

[AMModels]

Should it get completed, the Hatherton branch will go off the Lord Hayes

 

Richard

Yes it will but I think to show on a supposed historic map that it was built that way from the beginning is wrong.

 

The Bentley canal is missing altogether as well.

[RLWP]

Yes it will but I think to show on a supposed historic map that it was built that way from the beginning is wrong.

 

The Bentley canal is missing altogether as well.

 

My guess is that CRT want to engage with people to work together on this, not be yet another expert

 

Let them know and help them get it right

 

Richard

[PaulG]

It's really strange that the RIver Avon only seems to exist above Stratford...

[Scholar Gypsy]

It's really strange that the RIver Avon only seems to exist above Stratford...

 

I think the point is - see the list in my earlier email - that they have included a number of restoration projects, and proposed new waterways, even though CART might not be the navigation authority if/when they are built.

 

I will write to suggest the map should include other open waterways where they are not the nav authority (Thames, Avon etc).

[AMModels]

 

My guess is that CRT want to engage with people to work together on this, not be yet another expert

 

Let them know and help them get it right

 

Richard

 

 

Already been in touch with them but this is from the site with the map, doesnt look as though they believe it is incomplete or even up for debate..

 

 

Our canals are so vast (and some very old) that it's easy to forget the history of certain canals and what happened to them over time.

The restoration team here at the Trust have put a timeline map together to help show how canals have changed over time, when canals closed, and when they reopened.

• Access the 'canal over time' map

Go on a journey through the canal age, and witness the changing fortunes of our waterways, from the 1700's right through to today. With the help of volunteers we have been able to restore 25 canals over time

 

I contacted CRT before I posted here, not interested in just knocking them without letting them know what theyve done wrong.

 

I dont think they are in any danger of becoming 'yet another expert' if this is anything to go by.

[PaulG]

 

I think the point is - see the list in my earlier email - that they have included a number of restoration projects, and proposed new waterways, even though CART might not be the navigation authority if/when they are built.

 

I will write to suggest the map should include other open waterways where they are not the nav authority (Thames, Avon etc).

Yes, it does seem a bit quirky that they show the Cotswold Canals (currently partially restored but unconnected and not CRT managed), the Higher Avon (proposed only) but they omit a perfectly serviceable river!

[magnetman]

Yes, it does seem a bit quirky that they show the Cotswold Canals (currently partially restored but unconnected and not CRT managed), the Higher Avon (proposed only) but they omit a perfectly serviceable river!

Yes. A bit confusing without the Thames. How would one go from the Kennet and Avon to the Grand Union

[Laurence Hogg]

I have just reported this to the press office, who aren't too impressed. I have seldom seen so many errors over such a large area. It would be interesting to know which primary school they went to get the job done!

This is a classic case of distorting historical facts and grossly misleading the uneducated public who may wish to journey along the waterways shown!!

 

CRT is staffed with idiots if this is the latest and best attempt! Bring back Richard Fairhurst with the original waterscape map!!

[Tim Lewis]

CRT have been very proudly announcing their new interactive map of the waterways, construction, closures and retorations.

 

Sadly its not as great as they claim I only looked at the Wyrley and Essington and the very obvious mistakes are the Hatherton branch starting from Lord Hays branch and not the Extension, plus the original main line from Wyrley bank to Sneyd being missed completely.

 

Im sure courses of other canals are wrong with the Basingstoke being one that looks off.

 

https://canalrivertrust.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=bc85e84c7069427ca87174490b03a08d

 

 

Oh Ocker bonk never had a canal either....

 

I think its great they are doing something like this but surely they should make it as accurate as possible before trumpeting its arrival?

 

 

This looks like a poor copy of a a series of maps produced by the late Mike Stevens, these can be seen at:

 

http://www.canalmuseum.org.uk/history/menu-decades.htm

 

Tim

[RLWP]

Already been in touch with them but this is from the site with the map, doesnt look as though they believe it is incomplete or even up for debate..

 

 

 

I contacted CRT before I posted here, not interested in just knocking them without letting them know what theyve done wrong.

 

I dont think they are in any danger of becoming 'yet another expert' if this is anything to go by.

Apologies, out of greenies. I would be interested to know how you get on

 

Richard

[Laurence Hogg]

Just had a lengthy conversation with Kate Langley from CRT Tamworth re the contents of the map. She has now seen for herself the massive amounts of errors it contains and is looking into having it altered. I suggested that it should be taken down as it distorts reality and facts and cannot be allowed to remain in the public domain. It appears it is the result of a number of CRT employees working with volunteers, I suggested that she made a shortlist of people with proper knowledge and worked with them as it appears the "volunteers" were not knowledgable about waterways in particular.

She had not heard of the Richard Dean maps or the NLS interactive website.

We will see what happens.............

[PaulG]

We will see what happens.............

A sneak preview of their next effort

Edited June 1, 2016 by PaulG

[AMModels]

Just had a lengthy conversation with Kate Langley from CRT Tamworth re the contents of the map. She has now seen for herself the massive amounts of errors it contains and is looking into having it altered. I suggested that it should be taken down as it distorts reality and facts and cannot be allowed to remain in the public domain. It appears it is the result of a number of CRT employees working with volunteers, I suggested that she made a shortlist of people with proper knowledge and worked with them as it appears the "volunteers" were not knowledgable about waterways in particular.

She had not heard of the Richard Dean maps or the NLS interactive website.

We will see what happens.............

 

 

Sadly that was the impression from seeing the map.

[Laurence Hogg]

Having checked several areas now from Frodsham to West London it appears there are thousands of errors to be found, virtually all the former West London spurs and arms in the Yiewsley area are not shown, the Oxford original course is missing and all this sits along major omission's like the Thames, Nene and Manchester Ship Canal.

[Machpoint005]

Perhaps if CRT had unlimited resources to spend on this sort of thing, they could afford to pay somebody to do the job properly. But they haven't, so they don't, and we would all agree that the Trust's priorities should be elsewhere (although none of us would agree as to where).

(Can't believe the MSC is missing, though).

[mark99]

There is only one word for this. Actually two, both starting with f, but the first would earn me a ban.

 

Fiasco.

Edited June 1, 2016 by mark99

[magnetman]

Fiasco De Gama?

[matty40s]

 

 

The Bentley canal is missing altogether as well.

Well I know that exists as I have moored on it.......

[Laurence Hogg]

Despite CRT receiving a lot of complaints re this map they have still left it visible on their website. Why on earth does a National organization not listen to constructive critics and get the truth on show not the guesswork and half completed job they are portraying.

It beggars belief!

[Derek R.]

Despite its title of 'trust', it's a branch of government Laurence. What else would you expect.

[Laurence Hogg]

The map has disappeared from the front page links, the subject of much critique to say the least.

[Heartland]

Looking at the map today, I was wondering who assisted with the time line chronology. It has some clever features that enable one to stop at a particular decade- stopping it in Birmingham for 1750-1800 I was surprised to see that the Worcester and Birmingham had not been made to Kings Norton nor the Warwick & Birmingham to Warwick, clearly the contractors who made these waterways were not active enough to register on the map, however the Walsall Junction Canal is there- it must have been an early venture for Mr Townshend, in fact some 40 years before he DID build it!

 

Ray Shill