furnessvale Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 It would be much simpler to get rid of red and just get those entitled to a rebate to claim it. Like farmers and fishing boats. Who would immediately, and magically, have a massive increase in consumption which just happens to find its way into the tanks of your friendly neighbourhood road haulier! George ex nb Alton retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 (edited) Who would immediately, and magically, have a massive increase in consumption which just happens to find its way into the tanks of your friendly neighbourhood road haulier! George ex nb Alton retired If what my haulier friend tells me is correct, most hauliers who do run dodgy buy illegal washed diesel, which probably comes from similar sources. The penalty for running red on the road is massive; some have done time for it i understand. It seems that many used to hop on the ferry and fill up in Belgium with much cheaper legal stuff rather than risk illegal diesel. Don't know if that still happens. The nice people from the authorities dipped my old Shogun once when I was buying gas oil in cans for the boat. God knows why as it was petrol! Still they did it and seemed extremely peed off when they discovered I was telling the truth. I wasn't allowed near the vehicle whilst they did the test and it was off the highway. I wonder about the legality of that but they seem to be above the law. Having two kinds of diesel is such a faff, isn't it? All those complicated rules and administration, and the expense of inspectors and collecting duty. It would be much simpler to get rid of red and just get those entitled to a rebate to claim it. Like farmers and fishing boats. In fact I'm surprised that nice Mr Osborne hasn't thought of it already, since he needs to bring in as much money as possible, EU or no EU........... I agree and that is why I think the diesel thing will go ahead on the cut regardless. Without meaning to get too political, he misses every target and needs to claw as much revenue in as possible. Perhaps as you suggest it will go to a scheme where those establishments who are entitled can claim it back after initially paying it. Lets not put ideas in their heads though Edited May 29, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 Customs and excise have much more certain powers than the police, its all about the countries MONEY. They can raid and search at will, without a warrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted May 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 Who would immediately, and magically, have a massive increase in consumption which just happens to find its way into the tanks of your friendly neighbourhood road haulier! George ex nb Alton retired Thats why farmers have been filling in consumption forms so that if it does happen their will be no big increase in usage! They arnt stupid HMRC they have seen all the cons before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSuit Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 HMC&E have infinitely more powers than the criminal system. I know of someone who used to help themselves to a tank full of farmers red in the middle of the night. He was dealt with for the crime and got a slap on the wrist. A phone call to the revenue and his car was seized, transported 50 miles to their base where they checked the contents. An instant fine of £500 and costs of recovering the car went to the registered owner. No appeals allowed. Caused a bit of a domestic as well, the car was registered to his dad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaulierP Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 If what my haulier friend tells me is correct, most hauliers who do run dodgy buy illegal washed diesel, which probably comes from similar sources. The penalty for running red on the road is massive; some have done time for it i understand. It seems that many used to hop on the ferry and fill up in Belgium with much cheaper legal stuff rather than risk illegal diesel. Don't know if that still happens. The nice people from the authorities dipped my old Shogun once when I was buying gas oil in cans for the boat. God knows why as it was petrol! Still they did it and seemed extremely peed off when they discovered I was telling the truth. I wasn't allowed near the vehicle whilst they did the test and it was off the highway. I wonder about the legality of that but they seem to be above the law. I agree and that is why I think the diesel thing will go ahead on the cut regardless. Without meaning to get too political, he misses every target and needs to claw as much revenue in as possible. Perhaps as you suggest it will go to a scheme where those establishments who are entitled can claim it back after initially paying it. Lets not put ideas in their heads though Illegal Washed Diesel carries a higher penalty if caught than normal red diesel so I suspect your Haulier Friend is an idiot. The penalty for the use of red on the road is £250 for having it present in the tank and £250 for running on it,£500 in total. Illegally Washed diesel is still traceable as it contains the washing agent in its make up which wouldn't be present in normal White Diesel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 (edited) Illegal Washed Diesel carries a higher penalty if caught than normal red diesel so I suspect your Haulier Friend is an idiot. The penalty for the use of red on the road is £250 for having it present in the tank and £250 for running on it,£500 in total. Illegally Washed diesel is still traceicce.able as it contains the washing agent in its make up which wouldn't be present in normal White Diesel Nice. Edited May 29, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaulierP Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 Nice. Sorry it was absolutely no criticism of yourself,I was just alarmed that someone in the same industry as myself would tell you such nonsense.Never mind you can put him right now over a beer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 Sorry it was absolutely no criticism of yourself,I was just alarmed that someone in the same industry as myself would tell you such nonsense.Never mind you can put him right now over a beer. No need to aplogise. Most likely me who is the idiot and misunderstood what he once explained to me. If indeed you are correct, that is the most likely explanation as he operated as a very successful and knowledgeable haulier for many years right up until his untimely death. He most definitely wasn't an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Todd Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 Because ALL other off road leisure users of diesel are permitted to use rebated fuel. Again why are boaters singled out (other than the fact that it is an EU directive)? Given that is a fact, it is not for me to justify my demand for rebated fuel, it is for the government to explain why they have singled out boaters. George ex nb Alton retired As I understand it, we are a small cog in a much bigger wheel. The use of waterways on the continent for freight transport is quite a significant market. Road hauliers objected that barges were given unfair advantage by paying for fuel at a lower rate. Hence the requirement to equalise on grounds of fair competition. To sustain an argument for continuing the UK practice it would be necessary to segregate the uses and, in the process, give up any hopes of water borne freight in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 As I understand it, we are a small cog in a much bigger wheel. The use of waterways on the continent for freight transport is quite a significant market. Road hauliers objected that barges were given unfair advantage by paying for fuel at a lower rate. Hence the requirement to equalise on grounds of fair competition. To sustain an argument for continuing the UK practice it would be necessary to segregate the uses and, in the process, give up any hopes of water borne freight in the future. The use of white diesel, or in the UK red but paying white rate of duty, on waterways in the EU, only applies to leisure users and only for propulsion. Commercial users throughout the EU, including the UK, use red for propulsion on water. Governments have other methods available to them to level the playing field, if they choose to do so, e.g. the level of tolls on road, rail or water. George ex nb Alton retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Featured Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now