Cost of red diesel

[Guest]

Of course their are two other issues NC brought up one, the antifouling which could easily get carried over to blacking when I last looked at a can, it said harmful to marine life!! How long before you are all shotblasting boats and either 2 pack painting boats or like myself zingering the boat at a cool 3K!!

 

Also Jonny [Johnathon Wilson] was telling me the organisation were looking at all boats having" compliant" engines he was assuming that meant new boats so gone will be those lovely vintage engines in new boats, thats of course assuming that compliant engines will work in our slow revving narrowboats as a high temperature is required to make the emission equipment work!

 

People are interfering in our boating life, and a lot of people are clearly happy for them to change our way of life, are you?

I remember my dad used to say exactly that, in 1966. That was when our pre EEC government were hell bent on filling canals in.

I wonder how much EU funding has gone into UK canals?

Edited May 27, 2016 by Guest

[peterboat]

I remember my dad used to say exactly that, in 1966. That was when our pre EEC government were hell bent on filling canals in.

I wonder how much EU funding has gone into UK canals?

Thats right so we did something about it! But of course we could because our MPs could be pressurised to do something not the same now is it?

[Guest]

Thats right so we did something about it! But of course we could because our MPs could be pressurised to do something not the same now is it?

Not so sure you are in the right area there. I think you will find that funding from EU has resulted in a lot of canals being renovated. The point being that funding is available without having to "pressure" anybody. It has to be successfully applied for of course. Will that funding exist after a possible Brexit? Can you honestly see the cowboys of today who claim to run our country (read that as all parties) funding such activities? I can't. Our government couldn't wait to fire BW off.

Had it not been for Barbara Castle and a small handful of MP's there would have been few canals left to sail along; most wanted rid of them. I expect many would feel the same today. No pressure needed in Castle's case, she was on the ball.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Guest

[peterboat]

She was on the Ball but the infant IWA applied a lot of pressure without them they would just be houses built on them.

Nothing has changed really, our problems will be that we have canals but our boats wont be allowed on them because of engine emissions and blacking that doesnt comply, and the few boat that comply wont be able to afford the diesel to do it

[David Schweizer]

She was on the Ball but the infant IWA applied a lot of pressure without them they would just be houses built on them.

Nothing has changed really, our problems will be that we have canals but our boats wont be allowed on them because of engine emissions and blacking that doesnt comply, and the few boat that comply wont be able to afford the diesel to do it

 

 

Being such an optimist must keep you going Peter.

Edited May 27, 2016 by David Schweizer

[peterboat]

 

 

Being such an optimist must keep you going Peter.

No realist because the antifouling thing is going through along with the compliant engines

[Guest]

I can recall all the old boys complaining about "bloody EEC interference" when we were stopped from flushing our toilets directly into the canal (I have no idea if it was the EEC who stopped it, but the towpath telegraph seemed to think it was at the time so I have to go with it.) Used to be great when we went canoing (not.)

Antifouling has been a hot topic since I was a kid, certain types being banned many years ago when my dad had his boat (copper IIRC.) I remember Practical Boat Owner publishing articles about this in the '60's.

Whether you like the EEC/EU/whatever it is called this week, or not (and I am not a huge fan,) the waterways in general are a lot cleaner today following legislation from same. The river that runs adjacent to my house now has fish in it; 38 years ago there was human excrement and a whole cocktail of waste floating on it. We can also hang washing outside in recent years, without fear of sewage smells becoming entrenched in it from the nearby sewage works (EEC rules tightened operations up and stopped them dumping raw waste into said river.)

Gone off boating topic a bit there sorry, but EU is not all bad. Things need to be kept in proportion.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

She was on the Ball but the infant IWA applied a lot of pressure without them they would just be houses built on them.

Nothing has changed really, our problems will be that we have canals but our boats wont be allowed on them because of engine emissions and blacking that doesnt comply, and the few boat that comply wont be able to afford the diesel to do it

The IWA bit is correct (founded in the '50's IIRC), my dad was a member. I recall attending various events.

The rest I find to be little emotive.

[peterboat]

I can recall all the old boys complaining about "bloody EEC interference" when we were stopped from flushing our toilets directly into the canal (I have no idea if it was the EEC who stopped it, but the towpath telegraph seemed to think it was at the time so I have to go with it.) Used to be great when we went canoing (not.)

Antifouling has been a hot topic since I was a kid, certain types being banned many years ago when my dad had his boat (copper IIRC.) I remember Practical Boat Owner publishing articles about this in the '60's.

Whether you like the EEC/EU/whatever it is called this week, or not (and I am not a huge fan,) the waterways in general are a lot cleaner today following legislation from same. The river that runs adjacent to my house now has fish in it; 38 years ago there was human excrement and a whole cocktail of waste floating on it. We can also hang washing outside in recent years, without fear of sewage smells becoming entrenched in it from the nearby sewage works (EEC rules tightened operations up and stopped them dumping raw waste into said river.)

Gone off boating topic a bit there sorry, but EU is not all bad. Things need to be kept in proportion.

After googling a bit I think you will find it was us that started the cleanup of rivers etc started for the mersey in 74

[peterboat]

The IWA bit is correct (founded in the '50's IIRC), my dad was a member. I recall attending various events.

The rest I find to be little emotive.

Nothing emotive about it at all the EU is taking us to court to ban the use of red diesel on boats started in 2014 luckily they are very slow at doing stuff

[Guest]

After googling a bit I think you will find it was us that started the cleanup of rivers etc started for the mersey in 74

I live not far from the Mersey and yes we did a lot. I am unsure as to whether this was a result EU legislation or not. I don't believe that the water courses around my area would have been cleaned up so quickly without EU legislation. i have attended many meetings etc over the years, and I know that the EU really kicked arse about this.

[Phil Ambrose]

Well I don't, but I don't mind if they do because I declare the ratio that I expect to use - I've said previously that I'm well trained by the military to be a conformist.

 

I'm merely offering that, based primarily on experiences related here, HM Customs and Excise don't appear to believe that chasing around Britain checking suppliers and boaters declaration documentation for this EU applied ruling is in their or anyone else's interest. That's not to say I wouldn't like to see red diesel at the prices it was at or that I think white diesel wouldn't be punitive to our collective interest.

I have only ever signed on 2 occasions, once when I declared a 90/10 split as it was winter and I had a diesel heater and ditto on the second occasion at a different yard. Nobody batted an eyelid and the only info on me that was asked for was the name of my boat.

Nowadays I buy from a commercial oil/fuel supplier, the fuel is for my ride on mower, usually in 100 litre amounts in cans.

No details are asked for just my payment. I have never heard of anybody being pursued by HMRC or anybody else. We have a chap on our marine who sells very cheap red, he works for a hire company and when the trucks come back they pump out the tanks so the next hirer has to pay for a fill. The fuel thus drawn off then becomes boat fuel.

Phil

[Guest]

Nothing emotive about it at all the EU is taking us to court to ban the use of red diesel on boats started in 2014 luckily they are very slow at doing stuff

i didn't mean that, red diesel is very old news. I refer to your not being able to use/afford boats on canals anymore. People have been saying stuff like that since I was a kid and likely long before that. I am told there are as many if not more boats today on inland waterways than ever!

[peterboat]

I live not far from the Mersey and yes we did a lot. I am unsure as to whether this was a result EU legislation or not. I don't believe that the water courses around my area would have been cleaned up so quickly without EU legislation. i have attended many meetings etc over the years, and I know that the EU really kicked arse about this.

google is your friend we did it the EU was just a distant nightmare in 74 and even in the early 80s. You give them to much credit for things they didnt do and dont hold them to account for the rubbish they do

[Guest]

I have only ever signed on 2 occasions, once when I declared a 90/10 split as it was winter and I had a diesel heater and ditto on the second occasion at a different yard. Nobody batted an eyelid and the only info on me that was asked for was the name of my boat.

Nowadays I buy from a commercial oil/fuel supplier, the fuel is for my ride on mower, usually in 100 litre amounts in cans.

No details are asked for just my payment. I have never heard of anybody being pursued by HMRC or anybody else. We have a chap on our marine who sells very cheap red, he works for a hire company and when the trucks come back they pump out the tanks so the next hirer has to pay for a fill. The fuel thus drawn off then becomes boat fuel.

Phil

google is your friend we did it the EU was just a distant nightmare in 74 and even in the early 80s. You give them to much credit for things they didnt do and dont hold them to account for the rubbish they do

We will have to agree to disagree on that one. As already stated I am not a huge fan of the EU, far from it, but I like to try to view things fairly. I don't have an agenda.

ps don't believe everything Google throws up! Like the canal of old, there is a lot of sh1t in there

Edited May 27, 2016 by Guest

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Of course their are two other issues NC brought up one, the antifouling which could easily get carried over to blacking when I last looked at a can, it said harmful to marine life!! How long before you are all shotblasting boats and either 2 pack painting boats or like myself zingering the boat at a cool 3K!!

 

Also Jonny [Johnathon Wilson] was telling me the organisation were looking at all boats having" compliant" engines he was assuming that meant new boats so gone will be those lovely vintage engines in new boats, thats of course assuming that compliant engines will work in our slow revving narrowboats as a high temperature is required to make the emission equipment work!

 

People are interfering in our boating life, and a lot of people are clearly happy for them to change our way of life, are you?

Just as a side thought, there is talk of London putting severe restrictions on the use of Diesel engines within the capital. It would seem rather bizarre if they banned some more modern road diesels but then said "Oh, it is fine to come into the city pumping out the fumes from your Bolinder/Lister/Russell Newbery etc. " don't you think? Or I suppose that they could just tell the Londoners to suck up the Nitrogen oxides and particulates and just get on and die

[peterboat]

Just as a side thought, there is talk of London putting severe restrictions on the use of Diesel engines within the capital. It would seem rather bizarre if they banned some more modern road diesels but then said "Oh, it is fine to come into the city pumping out the fumes from your Bolinder/Lister/Russell Newbery etc. " don't you think? Or I suppose that they could just tell the Londoners to suck up the Nitrogen oxides and particulates and just get on and die

The trouble is a euro six engine in a boat wont work, cat and dpf wouldnt light up. Also euro six engines still produce particulates and NOX, so in the small numbers we are talking about does it matter?

[Guest]

No doubt in years to come the infernal combustion engine will have been replaced by something cleaner and more efficient. Things change.

[peterboat]

I agree roll on better solar, batteries and super conductor electric motors so we can be all electric

[Wanderer Vagabond]

The trouble is a euro six engine in a boat wont work, cat and dpf wouldnt light up. Also euro six engines still produce particulates and NOX, so in the small numbers we are talking about does it matter?

I don't suppose that those imposing the restrictions would tell you what engine to put in your boat, they would just tell you that you aint coming in here with that. Having seen just how much smoke some boats (not necessarily with classic engines) can put out I would find it a bit incredible if they banned road diesels and then ignored smokey boat diesels. I would think that in the more crowded area of canal in London where people may be running their engines for power/hot water etc during the winter the local land based residents may also have an input.

 

I agree roll on better solar, batteries and super conductor electric motors so we can be all electric

Still a way off yet

[Phil Ambrose]

Just thinking about HMRC chasing (supposedly) people for outstanding excuse duty on fuel, I can't believe that valuable State resources and manpower would be used to chase the likes of you and I for miniscule amounts of duty when the Government is happy for Google and all of their ilk are allowed to tell the Government how much tax they are going to pay (eventually) somehow that doesn't square up.

Phil

[Guest]

Just thinking about HMRC chasing (supposedly) people for outstanding excuse duty on fuel, I can't believe that valuable State resources and manpower would be used to chase the likes of you and I for miniscule amounts of duty when the Government is happy for Google and all of their ilk are allowed to tell the Government how much tax they are going to pay (eventually) somehow that doesn't square up.

Phil

It is hard to imagine. Like most things I believe they will make a token gesture once in a while to try and scare the rest of us.

[peterboat]

Or will the government just cave in and allow the ban on red diesel for boats? Of course if we have left it doesnt matter we can do what we want

[Guest]

Or will the government just cave in and allow the ban on red diesel for boats? Of course if we have left it doesnt matter we can do what we want

But I suspect the impending ban will go ahead anyway, regardless of the outcome. We shall see.

ps when do I get my rebate for all the petrol I have used in canal boats over the years Whilst I have taken advantage of the diesel rebate for many years (a throw back from canal working days) it is hard to justify for leisure use.

[Alan de Enfield]

It is hard to imagine. Like most things I believe they will make a token gesture once in a while to try and scare the rest of us.

 

It only takes the 'occasional' case to make the papers, and irrespective of the 'value' of the outcome, it certainly puts the 'frighteners' on others.

 

Some years ago a very good friend was a self-employed roofer, the tax man decided he had been doing 'cash-jobs' and claimed he owed then £20,000.

He argued the case (as you would).

They then (for over a month) followed his wife shopping, went into the shop after she left and demanded a copy of the till receipts, they followed the kids and followed them into the 'sweet' shops, they parked out side their house and looked a what cars they had, the satellite dish etc etc etc.

 

They then wrote and suggested that the amount of money they were spending over a month way exceeded the amount he was declaring as having taken out of the business.

 

They (both sides) eventually accepted a 'token payment' of £2000 but the ramifications in the local building industry rumbled on for months and months.

 

The cost of employing a team of 'enforcers' 24 hours day for a month must far outweigh the actual recovered monies, but the value of the 'fright' is immesurable.