Cost of red diesel

[peterboat]

When voting next month remember which organisation put up the price of red diesel to us boaters and who wanted it banned?
Serious point interference from some organsations knows no bounds!And who knows what they might do in the future?

[Naughty Cal]

And who wants to ban the DIY use of antifoul paint.

[peterboat]

And who wants to ban the DIY use of antifoul paint.

The same organisation I believe, The one that wont let me paint an old car in the same paint that it came out of the factory

[Naughty Cal]

Or let me buy my meat in pounds and ounces.

[Guest]

How many think that all these (boat related) things will be reversed if/when we leave the EU?

Edited May 27, 2016 by Guest

[John V]

How many think that all these things will be reversed if/when we leave the EU?

 

don't think it's likely to be reversed but there is a lot of agitation "over there" to do away with it totally (for us)

[Guest User]

Please bear in mind the forum rules about political postings and keep this thread boating-related.

[Guest]

Please bear in mind the forum rules about political postings and keep this thread boating-related.

Sorry edited my post slightly.

[Sea Dog]

And stopped roaming charges on mobile phones abroad. And stopped us buying milk in pints... Oh, hang on, we still do. And our excise men don't give a monkey's about policing red diesel.

 

Isn't this a bit of a political thread though?

 

 

Eta: Ah, the political angle was noted as I wrote, so we needn't all fall out. Good job, mods

Edited May 27, 2016 by Sea Dog

[AMModels]

How many think that all these (boat related) things will be reversed if/when we leave the EU?

 

None but shhhhh the brexiters are enjoying bow-hauling the clock back to 18-darkages and three

Edited May 27, 2016 by AMModels

[Guest]

 

None but shhhhh the brexiters are enjoying rolling the clock back to 18-darkages and three

That'll be the BOAT clock? (post 7)

Edited May 27, 2016 by Guest

[MtB]

Numpty edit

Edited May 27, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[peterboat]

And stopped roaming charges on mobile phones abroad. And stopped us buying milk in pints... Oh, hang on, we still do. And our excise men don't give a monkey's about policing red diesel.

 

Isn't this a bit of a political thread though?

 

 

Eta: Ah, the political angle was noted as I wrote, so we needn't all fall out. Good job, mods

How do you know that the red diesel team might not come knocking on the door? A member on here is in charge of one of the teams so you never know.

I only go abroad twice a year hardly use the phone so couldnt care less about roaming charges, what bothers me is interference in our boating pleasures, If the government is forced to get rid of red diesel our costs will go up dramatically and a lot couldnt afford it

[ditchcrawler]

I am going to say something to get the thread taken down in a minute, I have always wanted to do that.

[AMModels]

That'll be the BOAT clock? (post 7)

duly nauticaled... I mean noted.

[Guest]

How do you know that the red diesel team might not come knocking on the door? A member on here is in charge of one of the teams so you never know.

I only go abroad twice a year hardly use the phone so couldnt care less about roaming charges, what bothers me is interference in our boating pleasures, If the government is forced to get rid of red diesel our costs will go up dramatically and a lot couldnt afford it

No doubt costs would increase, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it would make a huge difference to my particular boat budget. This will vary from one boat to another of course.

My biggest concern would be possible reduced availability of fuel on the cut should this happen.

[Alan de Enfield]

HMRC investigated one of BWML's marinas twice in the last couple of years - they went thru all of the records and insisted that all sales should be declared - even down to a 2 litre sale.

 

New rules on declarations have now been introduced at our marina - the declaration has to be renewed every 12 months - Don't know how it works if you are not moving for a few months and have made a 0% declaration, then go off for a 3 month cruise when you should be 'claiming' something like 80% propulsion.

 

Apparently a declaration is only needed above 99.99 litres dispensed into a boat, or multiples of 19,99 litres if into containers .so, are HMRC making up their own rules ?

[Mac of Cygnet]

 

 

Apparently a declaration is only needed above 99.99 litres dispensed into a boat, or multiples of 19,99 litres if into containers .so, are HMRC making up their own rules ?

 

Really????? I've never bought as much as 99.99 litres at a time (my tank only holds about 100 litres). Are you telling me that all these declarations I've made were unnecessary? Have you got a source for that I can quote when I buy diesel? (Not that they will believe me)

[David Schweizer]

 

When voting next month remember which organisation put up the price of red diesel to us boaters and who wanted it banned?

Serious point interference from some organsations knows no bounds!And who knows what they might do in the future?

 

 

Either I have misunderstood your post, or you have a short memory. As I understand it, for many years the EU regulations required red diesel sold for use in privately owned boats to be taxed at the same level as white diesel. However the UK, along with four other member states, had a derrogation clause which excempted them from the regulation, but when the derrogation came up for renewa in 2006, the UK Government chose not to vote for the exeption to continue. So the people who caused the price of red diesel to boater to increase was actually the UK Government, not the EU.

Edited May 27, 2016 by David Schweizer

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Really????? I've never bought as much as 99.99 litres at a time (my tank only holds about 100 litres). Are you telling me that all these declarations I've made were unnecessary? Have you got a source for that I can quote when I buy diesel? (Not that they will believe me)

 

No - nothing as evidence.

I was told it yesterday (whilst putting in 400 litres)

 

........, but when the derrogation came up for renewal, the Government chose not to re-apply for the exeption to continue. .....................

 

 

Maybe mistaken, but I was under the impression (from RYA discussions and a MB forum) that the Government had tried to apply for an extension to the derogation and were told it would be refused and "they should think themselves lucky that they had it for so long'.

[peterboat]

^^^^^^^ what he said. I use about a 1000 litres a year, if red diesel went and we paid full price for all diesel which we would have to my costs would easily double if not more. It would definitely make life difficult for a lot of boaters when their was no declaration form to sign because all diesel was white and at full tax just like a certain organisation wants

[David Schweizer]

 

No - nothing as evidence.

I was told it yesterday (whilst putting in 400 litres)

 

Maybe mistaken, but I was under the impression (from RYA discussions and a MB forum) that the Government had tried to apply for an extension to the derogation and were told it would be refused and "they should think themselves lucky that they had it for so long'.

 

They may well have been told that, but they still had the right to apply, and excercise their right of veto. It may well have made them unpopular, and I suspect that their decision to not re-apply probably had more to do with red diesel derrogation being the sacrificial lamb in a trade off with something else for which the UK Government needed all member support. And they stood to make some additional revenue (He suggested cynically!")

 

I remember the issue well, and engaged in lengthy correspondance with my local MEP on the matter. However, I got the impression that the UK Government were less than enthusiastic about the matter as they had just won a third term, and there was no electorial advantage in pursuing further derrogation.

Edited May 27, 2016 by David Schweizer

[Guest]

^^^^^^^ what he said. I use about a 1000 litres a year, if red diesel went and we paid full price for all diesel which we would have to my costs would easily double if not more. It would definitely make life difficult for a lot of boaters when their was no declaration form to sign because all diesel was white and at full tax just like a certain organisation wants

Undoubtedly it would go up, but double? I can see that canal side suppliers could not compete with the likes of Asda so would be a higher cost than road diesel, but unless you are declaring little or no propulsion. I couldn't see it being double.

As an aside, I believe this might still happen even if we do come out of the EU. Time will tell.

 

They may well have been told that, but they still had the right to apply, and excercise their right of veto. It may well have made them unpopular, and I suspect that their decision to not re-apply probably had more to do with red diesel derrogation being the sacrificial lamb in a trade off with something else for which the UK Government needed all member support. And they stood to make some additional revenue (He suggested cynically!")

 

I remember the issue well, and engaged in lengthy correspondance with my local MEP on the matter. However, I got the impression that the UK Government were less than enthusiastic about the matter as they had just won a third term, and there was no electorial advantage in pursuing further derrogation.

Which is why I think that red on the cut will end eventually, regardless of our EU status.

[Sea Dog]

How do you know that the red diesel team might not come knocking on the door? A member on here is in charge of one of the teams so you never know.

 

Well I don't, but I don't mind if they do because I declare the ratio that I expect to use - I've said previously that I'm well trained by the military to be a conformist.

 

I'm merely offering that, based primarily on experiences related here, HM Customs and Excise don't appear to believe that chasing around Britain checking suppliers and boaters declaration documentation for this EU applied ruling is in their or anyone else's interest. That's not to say I wouldn't like to see red diesel at the prices it was at or that I think white diesel wouldn't be punitive to our collective interest.

[peterboat]

Of course their are two other issues NC brought up one, the antifouling which could easily get carried over to blacking when I last looked at a can, it said harmful to marine life!! How long before you are all shotblasting boats and either 2 pack painting boats or like myself zingering the boat at a cool 3K!!

 

Also Jonny [Johnathon Wilson] was telling me the organisation were looking at all boats having" compliant" engines he was assuming that meant new boats so gone will be those lovely vintage engines in new boats, thats of course assuming that compliant engines will work in our slow revving narrowboats as a high temperature is required to make the emission equipment work!

 

People are interfering in our boating life, and a lot of people are clearly happy for them to change our way of life, are you?