10W 40

[zenataomm]

Hardly vintage but my SR2 deserves an oil change.

 

Wanting to do it before I go away soon and not being near a half decent Swindlers I just want to buy 10W 40 diesel lube for naturally aspirated.

However Motor Factors and the like only sell synthetic and part synthetic.

Does it matter, or do I need to ensure mineral?

 

What does the panel think?

 

Cheers

 

[OldGoat]

10 / 40 is a semi-synthetic oil. You can't make 10/40 in mineral (wait for folks to disagree.....)

Synthetic oils are designed for modern engines with very close tolerances.

 

Any Lister engine (!!) is not manufactured to high tolerances....

 

15/40 is more suitable for your lister - there was a thread on here recently with a long discussion........

[alan_fincher]

10 / 40 is a semi-synthetic oil. You can't make 10/40 in mineral (wait for folks to disagree.....)

Synthetic oils are designed for modern engines with very close tolerances.

 

Are you suggesting this applies to something like the Morris Golden Film products, an API-CC oil?

 

That flies in the face of it being explicitly marketed for "classic" and "heritage" applications, so you are struggling to convince me at the moment.

 

Nobody seems to be able to agree though whether old oil cooled Listers are better on a multigrade or the monograde variants, and the jury is out for me on that - perhaps why one of my HAs is on a monograde, and the other currently on a multigrade!

[ditchcrawler]

Hardly vintage but my SR2 deserves an oil change.

 

Wanting to do it before I go away soon and not being near a half decent Swindlers I just want to buy 10W 40 diesel lube for naturally aspirated.

However Motor Factors and the like only sell synthetic and part synthetic.

Does it matter, or do I need to ensure mineral?

 

What does the panel think?

 

Cheers

 

Wilkinson's sell a CC oil

[alan_fincher]

Wilkinson's sell a CC oil

 

Probably a 20W/50 I think.

 

No consensus I have ever found on which is most suitable in an air-cooled Lister

 

SAE 30

SAE 10W/40

SAE 20W/50

 

Each seems to have both its advocates and detractors!

[Guest]

10 / 40 is a semi-synthetic oil. You can't make 10/40 in mineral (wait for folks to disagree.....)

Synthetic oils are designed for modern engines with very close tolerances.

 

Any Lister engine (!!) is not manufactured to high tolerances....

 

15/40 is more suitable for your lister - there was a thread on here recently with a long discussion........

don't know enough to either agree or disagree, but have heard similar said before. It does confuse me though why Carlube (as one example) would advertise their 10/40 as a mineral, when they could market it as part/semi synthetic. Also some people argue that one famous brand which sounds a bit like "magnetic" is NOT truly semi-synthetic and is nearer to mineral (despite being sold as part synth.)!

All very confusing for us amateurs.

I'll stick with me Comma.

[OldGoat]

alan_fincher, on 27 May 2016 - 2:22 PM, said:

 

Are you suggesting this applies to something like the Morris Golden Film products, an API-CC oil?

 

That flies in the face of it being explicitly marketed for "classic" and "heritage" applications, so you are struggling to convince me at the moment.

 

Nobody seems to be able to agree though whether old oil cooled Listers are better on a multigrade or the monograde variants, and the jury is out for me on that - perhaps why one of my HAs is on a monograde, and the other currently on a multigrade!

While writing the original post - I thought - "somebody's bound to mention Morris's ". The giveaway for them is "classic oil", by which I infer that it's a specially blended mineral oil. Semi synth oils are hardly classic??

 

A|t the time methinks the OP was looking for a cheap inexpensive product generally available which Morris isn't.

 

It is indeed a very black art and Beta may well be over cautious - but they were adamant.. even though - I think - Kubota list 10/40 as suitable for some operating conditions.

 

Another spanner in the works is that the SR engines are air cooled and run at high operating temperatures. Does that make semi-synths more - or lsee suitable.

 

In the dim and distant past I had an Aerial 350 bile which required 50 grade oil (expensive) so I put 20/50 in it. It seized after 50 miles.... So I'm cautious now in choice of oils.

[Guest]

While writing the original post - I thought - "somebody's bound to mention Morris's ". The giveaway for them is "classic oil", by which I infer that it's a specially blended mineral oil. Semi synth oils are hardly classic??

 

A|t the time methinks the OP was looking for a cheap inexpensive product generally available which Morris isn't.

 

It is indeed a very black art and Beta may well be over cautious - but they were adamant.. even though - I think - Kubota list 10/40 as suitable for some operating conditions.

 

Another spanner in the works is that the SR engines are air cooled and run at high operating temperatures. Does that make semi-synths more - or lsee suitable.

 

In the dim and distant past I had an Aerial 350 bile which required 50 grade oil (expensive) so I put 20/50 in it. It seized after 50 miles.... So I'm cautious now in choice of oils.

Interesting. I have a really old Honda genny that uses straight 30 engine oil. I once put multigrade in it and it burned it off in no time. Didn't seize thanks to the oil level switch. 30 grade only now.

[Manxcat]

10 / 40 is a semi-synthetic oil. You can't make 10/40 in mineral (wait for folks to disagree.....)

 

Do please tell us why you can't make 10/40 viscosity range from mineral oil.

[Alan Taylor]

What are synthetic oils made of?

[Guest]

What are synthetic oils made of?

That is the million dollar question! If you google it and read a few articles, you will be confused. There seems to be no proper standard in the industry, but a great deal of waffle. Every company seems to be the "first" with synthetic oil, etc etc. I think there is more BS about oil than most things.

[Manxcat]

What are synthetic oils made of?

 

I found this on Wikipedia

"Synthetic oil is a lubricant consisting of chemical compounds that are artificially made (synthesized). Synthetic lubricants can be manufactured using chemically modified petroleum components rather than whole crude oil, but can also be synthesized from other raw materials"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

 

It seems that mineral oils are refined from crude oil out of the ground,

synthetic oils are made up from chemicals that might include mineral oils as well as other things.

(Then there is oils from things like castor beans and whales but they don't seem to fit the above categories).

 

I'd like to understand OldGoat's assertion that you can't make 10/40 from mineral.

. I think there is more BS about oil than most things.

 

WHS!

[OldGoat]

Manxcat, on 27 May 2016 - 6:01 PM, said:

 

Do please tell us why you can't make 10/40 viscosity range from mineral oil.

You can - as Morris make some - but AFAIK - they're the only one - it's not available via supermarkets and other retail type outlets.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know why such a grade of mineral oil is needed - for general canal use where really low temperatures ever occur, I would have thought that 15/40 mineral oil is enough.

 

I suspect tha the OP and others have seen 10/40 as the general grade available in ASDA and other supermarkets (that's where I used to get my 15/40, now not available as the demand is low??)

[zenataomm]

 

I found this on Wikipedia

"Synthetic oil is a lubricant consisting of chemical compounds that are artificially made (synthesized). Synthetic lubricants can be manufactured using chemically modified petroleum components rather than whole crude oil, but can also be synthesized from other raw materials"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

 

It seems that mineral oils are refined from crude oil out of the ground,

synthetic oils are made up from chemicals that might include mineral oils as well as other things.

(Then there is oils from things like castor beans and whales but they don't seem to fit the above categories).

 

I'd like to understand OldGoat's assertion that you can't make 10/40 from mineral.

 

WHS!

 

WHS?

[alan_fincher]

A|t the time methinks the OP was looking for a cheap inexpensive product generally available which Morris isn't.

 

I didn't read anything in OP's post that said they were looking for "inexpensive", only that they didn't have easy access to a chandlers.

 

Actually a number of people have posted places where Morris oils can be bought at non canal outlets.

 

It is of course available mail order, but when sold directly by Morris seems to be more expensive than when resold by other traders, (something I struggle with!).

 

I bought some off Phil on fuel boat Hyperion the other day. I was surprised he carries it as part of his stock, but he does, which was an excellent result.

 

I nearly posted that as "I was surprised he carries it as part of his sock" - I'm wondering what Athy would have made of that typo! Something about "footing the bill, perhaps?

[zenataomm]

You can - as Morris make some - but AFAIK - they're the only one - it's not available via supermarkets and other retail type outlets.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to know why such a grade of mineral oil is needed - for general canal use where really low temperatures ever occur, I would have thought that 15/40 mineral oil is enough.

 

I suspect tha the OP and others have seen 10/40 as the general grade available in ASDA and other supermarkets (that's where I used to get my 15/40, now not available as the demand is low??)

 

Well no not really I bought a couple of 5ltr cans from a rather splendid shop lock side at Braunston that proudly bore the label "Lister/Petter" and it was 10W 40 but said nothing about being partly/wholly/mineral or synthetic.

As I said I now live at the end of the trail, turn left at the second to last pine tree (sans supermerche).

 

Having trained at Dursley sometime between the fire and decamp I'm aware of the ability of these engines to run on Bacon Rind & Saltpeter.

However as my enjin is as original fitted to the boat in 1969 I don't want to tempt the fates by pouring in some concoction as recommended by some bright young graduate 15 minutes before the ink dried on his sir'stificate.

 

ps Alan~I change my oil like I change my socks, every decade whether it's needed or not.

[eggpie]

Synthetic or not, the SR manual I have suggests that 10w is only suitable for temperatures below 0C, although it's vague on the subject of multigrade. My SR3 is definitely happier with the 20w50 than even a 15w40 though, albeit with some slightly sluggish starting in the depths of winter. But, as Alan says, other people have different experiences.

[Manxcat]

 

WHS?

 

What He Said

 

(I was agreeing with Catweasel's post)

Edited May 28, 2016 by Manxcat

[Manxcat]

You can - as Morris make some - but AFAIK - they're the only one - it's not available via supermarkets and other retail type outlets.

 

OK, got where you are now.

 

[alan_fincher]

 

Well no not really I bought a couple of 5ltr cans from a rather splendid shop lock side at Braunston that proudly bore the label "Lister/Petter" and it was 10W 40 but said nothing about being partly/wholly/mineral or synthetic.

 

My understanding is that the specifically named "Lister Petter" oil was also blended by Morris Lubricants.

 

I've no proof for that though, and if it was I have no idea how it differs (if at all) from their standard Golden Film range.

[zenataomm]

Thanks one and all for the replies.

I never cease to be amazed at the wealth of advice, nor the variety of answers that could be forthcoming especially when the question has got to be fairly straight forward.

Of course if that were the case I wouldn’t have been asking in the first place.

So from the 19 replies I got

2 x 15/40

2 x It can’t be agreed on

2 x Classic Car oil (30 Grade) - but is it a detergent oil?

2 x 20/50

1 x 10/40

As pointed out, The Lister manual for the SR2 cheerfully suggests 20/20 and then mutters unless running above 85 degrees then perhaps straight 30.

 

This is the oil I bought last time, it wasn't cheap but has the right logos sprayed all over it. I have to say I was a bit scared when I used it as it was so thin it was the consistency and colour of Lucozade.

It shows a healthy pressure for a couple of hours, and then if the sun is up it drops to about 15'ish.

 

So there we have it , one of the most common engines fitted into hire boats for 30 years with still thousands giving sterling service and we're guessing at what oil it prefers ..... hilarious.

 

I wonder when Richard- benefactor of this parish returns from his sojourn to Crick? I'd love to hear his version.

 

 

 

[bizzard]

Thanks one and all for the replies.

I never cease to be amazed at the wealth of advice, nor the variety of answers that could be forthcoming especially when the question has got to be fairly straight forward.

Of course if that were the case I wouldn’t have been asking in the first place.

So from the 19 replies I got

2 x 15/40

2 x It can’t be agreed on

2 x Classic Car oil (30 Grade) - but is it a detergent oil?

2 x 20/50

1 x 10/40

As pointed out, The Lister manual for the SR2 cheerfully suggests 20/20 and then mutters unless running above 85 degrees then perhaps straight 30.

 

This is the oil I bought last time, it wasn't cheap but has the right logos sprayed all over it. I have to say I was a bit scared when I used it as it was so thin it was the consistency and colour of Lucozade.

Untitled.png

It shows a healthy pressure for a couple of hours, and then if the sun is up it drops to about 15'ish.

 

So there we have it , one of the most common engines fitted into hire boats for 30 years with still thousands giving sterling service and we're guessing at what oil it prefers ..... hilarious.

 

I wonder when Richard- benefactor of this parish returns from his sojourn to Crick? I'd love to hear his version.

 

 

 

15psi and maybe a bit higher is about normal for a hot SR air cooled engine. Air cooled engines generally tend to heat their oil to a higher temperature than water cooled engines, hence the straight 30 grade for hot climes as they're liable to foam multigrade oil at high oil temps. Air cooled VW's were also better off running on 30sae oil during heat waves due to possible oil foaming which can cause the pressure to drop to zero, BANG!!.

[zenataomm]

And the most helpful of replies goes to bizzard ....... cheers!

 

Morris Oils do a straight 30 which is a CC heavy duty, detergent.

[RLWP]

And the most helpful of replies goes to bizzard ....... cheers!

 

Morris Oils do a straight 30 which is a CC heavy duty, detergent.

 

 

 

I missed this thread. We also have a straight 30 to the right spec

 

Richard

[zenataomm]

I missed this thread. We also have a straight 30 to the right spec

 

Richard

 

Aha! ....... the thick plottens. How much for 10 ltrs?

Is it cheaper to collect, can that be done from Kenilworth?