Greasy Ocker

[mark99]

What is it?

 

Google only throws up DP' book.

[PaulG]

What is it?

 

Google only throws up DP' book.

Possible explanation:

 

"The "greasy" epithet is also obvious to anyone who has ever taken a turn in a steamer’s engine hole; even though it was customary to keep everything spotlessly clean, oil and grease are inescapable, especially heavy steam oil for lubricating the cylinders. Tom Rolt though thought that it might have something to do with cargoes of tallow and soap that they once carried. Some steamer crews were also known as "Greasy Ockers", which may have been related to FM’s one-time base at Ocker Hill"

 

(From Waterways Songs.co.uk)

http://www.waterwaysongs.co.uk/greasy_wheel.htm

[Derek R.]

Another version was that horse power of the four legged kind had hocks or 'ocks (one on each leg) that were not greased, so when the engines came along with their oil and grease, they became greasy 'ockers.

[Ray T]

A couple of "Greasy Ockers" plus some posh people:

 

 

 

I would hazard a guess the "posh people" are the boatmen's family as they look as if they are dressed for a Christening.

 

As a side & a bit steam engine men's caps are often referred to as "grease tops".

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Ray T

[Laurence Hogg]

"Greasy Ockers" were the men who ran & maintained the steamers for FMC out of the Ocker Hill depot. A lot of boats were repaired there although curiously it does not get a mention in later books written about FMC. The yard also had a pumping station using the Ocker Hill tunnel (the BCN's forgotten tunnel, not navigable) to draw water from the Walsall level. The depot became the main BCN workshops and from what I understand the workers there had the nickname until it closed with the opening of Bradley Workshops.

 

Only one retaining wall survives at the site, a blue brick one in a car park, there is no upper level sign of the tunnel but the bottom is (was) visible in recent times

Edited May 19, 2016 by Laurence Hogg

[Ray T]

Are these folks modern day "Greasy Ockers"?

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Ray T

[X Alan W]

"Greasy Ockers" were the men who ran & maintained the steamers for FMC out of the Ocker Hill depot. A lot of boats were repaired there although curiously it does not get a mention in later books written about FMC. The yard also had a pumping station using the Ocker Hill tunnel (the BCN's forgotten tunnel, not navigable) to draw water from the Walsall level. The depot became the main BCN workshops and from what I understand the workers there had the nickname until it closed with the opening of Bradley Workshops.

 

Only one retaining wall survives at the site, a blue brick one in a car park, there is no upper level sign of the tunnel but the bottom is (was) visible in recent times

Laurence is more than likely correct in his description but I was told many years ago by a then much more senior boatman that it referred to the workers at Ocker Hill depot that were involved in handling the tallow.

[Ray T]

From Alan H Faulkner's book FMC:

 

"These boats (referring to the steamers) often used to carry cargoes of soap and their crews were christened 'greasy-wheelers' or 'greasy-ockers' by other boatmen. The name 'ocker' derived from Ocker Hill where FMC had an office. On the other hand the crews of the Leicester and Nottingham boats were called 'woolly-backed ones' - a name believed to be associated with the Leicester wool trade."

[Heartland]

It is interesting how accurate history can become diluted over time. Fellows, Morton had various depots over time, but Ocker Hill must be questioned. The BCN pumping station and general workshops were on the upper canal, Wolverhampton Level. The Lower Canal (Walsall Canal level) had a coal yard. Alan Faulkener has stated that FMC had an office at Ocker Hill and for the carrying of cargoes soap, their crews were christened greasy wheelers or greasy ockers by other boatmen, and so the term has been handed down.

 

But did they have an office there specifically? The Fellows, certainly lived nearby at Horseley House, and their earliest trade as James Fellows was Tipton based, with tithe maps mentioning their presence at yards in the late 1840's, but not Ocker Hill. More importantly why Ocker Hill? James Fellows close association with the firm of John Bagnall & Sons, ironmasters, brought them lucrative contracts with the movement of raw material and finished goods associated with their West Bromwich and Caponfield based business. Later as Fellows, Morton they acted as agents for the Bridgewater Trustees with main depots at Wolverhampton (Albion wharf) and Birmingham (Great Charles Street). Later they were at Warwick Wharf and New Warwick Wharf, and these were amongst their main depots..

 

It would interesting to see where their depot at Ocker Hill was?

 

Whilst the Walsall Canal was used by carriers to reach the many works, iron, tube etc, in terms of commercial carrying the main route was Birmingham- Wolverhampton via Tipton.

 

Ray Shill.

[Laurence Hogg]

I too have been looking into where the dock was and are now convinced it wasn't at the end of the Ocker Hill upper branch. In the 1970's there was definite evidence of a side slip visible in the northern fork of the Ocker Hill lower branch, this was the arm leading to the tunnel. To throw more confusion in some boats are described as being built at "Toll End" or worse "Tipton". Whilst Toll End is close to Ocker Hill, Tipton covers both areas and the BCN pumping station!

 

However there was a dock just past the first bridge of the Toll End off the Walsall, it is still there today as a factory unit and latterly in canal days was Worsey Bros.

Could this have been the original dock Fellows had? I now think the BCN pumping station site is well off the radar, as for the "Office" FMC had many, until the early 1970's the little warehouse in Pleck proclaimed an advert saying "agents for FMC", this building still stands complete with loading canopy.

 

The location of Fellows original dock is something to be intrigued about, a remarkable concern in its early years, pioneering new techniques and propulsion, it seems odd that it start is so vague. I have never had the opportunity to view it but I do wonder what the FMC archive in Birmingham library contains?

[Lorna]

1881 census RG11 Piece 2865 Folio 136 page 15 and 16 for Tipton

 

Between 83 Upper Church Lane and 1 Moat Road on page 15 my 3 times great grandfather James Wagstaff aged 81 Boatman and wife Mary living at Fellows Offices. On page 16 you have Fellows Dock.

Thought you might be able to pinpoint the area better.

[Laurence Hogg]

1881 census RG11 Piece 2865 Folio 136 page 15 and 16 for Tipton

 

Between 83 Upper Church Lane and 1 Moat Road on page 15 my 3 times great grandfather James Wagstaff aged 81 Boatman and wife Mary living at Fellows Offices. On page 16 you have Fellows Dock.

Thought you might be able to pinpoint the area better.

 

That's fascinating info to have. That would put it in the vicinity of the former "Parkers bridge" on the lost section of the old main line virtually opposite where the upper Ocker Hill branch started. A basin headed off there once, just south of Parkers bridge, only shows on early maps.

[Ray T]

 

[Heartland]

The email from Lorna is useful, but with locating anything on the Census, it is important to follow how the enumerators compiled the list. In this case there were stretches without homes. Hope Ironworks was where Upper Church Lane crossed the old main line on the 1881 census. The Fellow brothers had grown up at Horseley House which was near the Dixons Branch. Horseley Office was their local boating depot which is listed in adverts until 1876. Horseley House was let in 1866 ( Mrs Fellows occupant).

 

Boats were made at Toll End Dock and the last steamer was completed there in 1887. There was a long association with the Fellows and the Toll End Branch, first in Tipton then Toll End, itself. It is reasonable to see the Horseley Office being placed alongside that waterway. And this canal linked Old,& New Main Lines with the Walsall enabling any carrier based along it to readily reach all parts of the iron district. With the decline of this trade and increase in railway competition, it is reasonable to state the FM closure of Horseley and the move to Warwick Wharf were related.

 

Ray Shill

[RLWP]

It is interesting how accurate history can become diluted over time. <snip>

 

Ray Shill.

 

Also, 'Greasy Ocker' is a phrase used by boatmen, and these bits of slang have all sorts of origins and reasons - not all of them are logical.

 

Richard

[Heartland]

Yes,

 

What can be the reason for the term. Putting aside what has already been quoted, the connection with soap does not seem logical, Soap breaks up grease generally.

 

Ray Shilll

[RLWP]

Yes,

 

What can be the reason for the term. Putting aside what has already been quoted, the connection with soap does not seem logical, Soap breaks up grease generally.

 

Ray Shilll

The trouble is, culture changes and things that were popular at the time make little sense now

 

As an example in the popular culture line, rhyming slang for curry is Ruby. Ruby Murray was a singer before I was born - I only found out she was a singer by googling it! What was popular culture back then?

 

Richard

[David Mack]

As an example in the popular culture line, rhyming slang for curry is Ruby. Ruby Murray was a singer before I was born - I only found out she was a singer by googling it!

Ruby Murray died in 1996. I suspect you were born a few years before that!

[RLWP]

Ruby Murray died in 1996. I suspect you were born a few years before that!

 

Can you name a song by her without Googling?

 

Richard

[David Mack]

 

Can you name a song by her without Googling?

 

Richard

No!

[RLWP]

No!

 

Right, so she's such a famous singer from the fifties that her name gets attached to rhyming slang, yet a generation later we can't name a song by her. The only significant thing we know is her name rhymes with 'curry'. And I guess she must have been famous enough in the fifties - which is my point. What was fleetingly popular then resulted in a popular phrase still in use now. Another generation of going for a Ruby and it will be even more confusing

 

'Greasy Ocker', anyone?

 

Richard

[Derek R.]

Remember the songs - maybe not, though Scarlet Ribbons is one I remember her singing. I think there's more than one generation gap there!

As to rhyming slang - it's a more modern one, as curries weren't a basic staple amongst most Cockneys from the fifties or earlier.

[Heartland]

Yes, it is true that meanings change, particularly today where the language is hijacked by a society that throws out new meanings in slang cultures. How did Garage get associated with music, for example?

 

But, the various interpretations of Greasy Ocker, even in the nineteenth century, may be a topic for scholars, but there is also a connection all these years on. To link Fellows Morton with Ocker Hill remains a question mark, What other interpretation of "ocker" can be made?

 

Ray Shill

[RLWP]

Yes, it is true that meanings change, particularly today where the language is hijacked by a society that throws out new meanings in slang cultures. How did Garage get associated with music, for example?

 

But, the various interpretations of Greasy Ocker, even in the nineteenth century, may be a topic for scholars, but there is also a connection all these years on. To link Fellows Morton with Ocker Hill remains a question mark, What other interpretation of "ocker" can be made?

 

Ray Shill

 

Oscar, Arthur

 

Richard

[AMModels]

Acker was a black country term for mate, Id be interested to know where Ocker as in Ocker Hill came from. I realise it as probably the name of someone who lived at that location and thus got into local knowledge as 'the hill of Ocker' probably something we will never know.