NBTA protest

[gazza]

Not reporting or anything like that, and perhaps I've suffered sense of humour failure, but I really don't get the Jewish connection. Don't bother trying to explain it because a joke that needs explanation (even to a dullard like me) probably isn't worth it

Really?!

 

Athys joke is a good un and couldn't be considered anti-Semitic in the slightest.

[Lady Muck]

I support the NBTA campaign though, it's the goalposts being moved like this. People are frightened. Liveaboards aren't rich, it's not so easy to just get a flat. No social housing, agencies need proof of a wage and references from a landlord. How many of us can provide that? I know a lot of zero hours contractors on boats.

I also see this big divide. Retired people who have proper pensions, maybe they have more than one property, just failing to Understand the reality of this younger boater generation. Criticising them. You are really, really lucky to have been born and worked when you did, can't you see that? Why do you hate them so much? They work hard, just like you did. Maybe they don't want to bring their kids up in a dump above a kebab shop ( because thats all you'll get if you're trying to manage on a wage now). No final salary scheme like you had, maybe on zero hours. Can't you see how different it is now? I don't blame people for getting boats, I mean for goodness sake, it's not exactly the easy option is it?

[RLWP]

I support the NBTA campaign though, it's the goalposts being moved like this. People are frightened. Liveaboards aren't rich, it's not so easy to just get a flat. No social housing, agencies need proof of a wage and references from a landlord. How many of us can provide that? I know a lot of zero hours contractors on boats.

I also see this big divide. Retired people who have proper pensions, maybe they have more than one property, just failing to Understand the reality of this younger boater generation. Criticising them. You are really, really lucky to have been born and worked when you did, can't you see that? Why do you hate them so much? They work hard, just like you did. Maybe they don't want to bring their kids up in a dump above a kebab shop ( because thats all you'll get if you're trying to manage on a wage now). No final salary scheme like you had, maybe on zero hours. Can't you see how different it is now? I don't blame people for getting boats, I mean for goodness sake, it's not exactly the easy option is it?

 

Just what this discussion needs - more stereotypes

 

Richard

[magnetman]

Too late, there aren't any brownfield sites, which is another reason boaters are cruising. Every avaiable bit of land that could be developed has been. Most has been turned over to apartments that none of us can afford. We've lost some historic wharves that we can never get back.

Add to that most of the Lea runs through Lee Valley Country Parks where the constitution prevents residential moorings, they've repeatedly said to CRT that they want no more moorings in the park.

Basically, there are no permanent moorings where boaters want to be and little hope of developing any. It's just how its happened. Hackney ( where the biggest increase in cruisers has been), got trendy and got gentrified and developed at the exact same time the boats arrived, it has been so quick, there was barely any consideration for the boaters. All anyone cares about is luxury apartments, it's so depressing and the buildings are often horrible and turn the canal into a gloomy corridor,. Ten twenty years ago if we could have predicted this, we could've made provision. But no one did. If you'd told me that we'd have the Haggerston Riviera and hipster bars in the Wick, I would've laughed, we all would. If you told me that living onboard without a mooring in the capital would become cool, I would also have laughed. This is why we are where we are.

Seems to me there are plenty of sites where residential moorings could be installed in London. Its relatively unusual for the flats to actually be built all the way to the edge of the canal - so there would usually be an access of some sort if moorings were constructed beside the development. I seen to think CRT owns the canal bank although I have noted they are selling a bit in Bow !

 

Ok so land residents don't want moorings beside their flats and boat dwellers don't want to pay a sensible amount of rent for a mooring - quite simple reasons that more aren't built. I don't see it as a lack of available canal bank personally.

 

There really is a lot of offside canal bank in London just begging to be made into residential moorings. I haven't been through town since 2015.

 

Typos

Edited May 11, 2016 by magnetman

[StarUKKiwi]

It's such a simple and obvious solution that there has to be a catch - which may, I suspect, be that many liveaboards are not in the upper income bracket, so paying say £1,000 per year for a permanent mooring could be difficult for them.

Or for CRT to pay for planning permission and associated costs to provide legal liveaboard moorings

[magnetman]

Or for CRT to pay for planning permission and associated costs to provide legal liveaboard moorings

Yes - not clever to shell out for the construction of residential moorings and then find out nobody wants to pay for them

[peterboat]

Too late, there aren't any brownfield sites, which is another reason boaters are cruising. Every avaiable bit of land that could be developed has been. Most has been turned over to apartments that none of us can afford. We've lost some historic wharves that we can never get back.

Add to that most of the Lea runs through Lee Valley Country Parks where the constitution prevents residential moorings, they've repeatedly said to CRT that they want no more moorings in the park.

Basically, there are no permanent moorings where boaters want to be and little hope of developing any. It's just how its happened. Hackney ( where the biggest increase in cruisers has been), got trendy and got gentrified and developed at the exact same time the boats arrived, it has been so quick, there was barely any consideration for the boaters. All anyone cares about is luxury apartments, it's so depressing and the buildings are often horrible and turn the canal into a gloomy corridor,. Ten twenty years ago if we could have predicted this, we could've made provision. But no one did. If you'd told me that we'd have the Haggerston Riviera and hipster bars in the Wick, I would've laughed, we all would. If you told me that living onboard without a mooring in the capital would become cool, I would also have laughed. This is why we are where we are.

 

 

I support the NBTA campaign though, it's the goalposts being moved like this. People are frightened. Liveaboards aren't rich, it's not so easy to just get a flat. No social housing, agencies need proof of a wage and references from a landlord. How many of us can provide that? I know a lot of zero hours contractors on boats.

I also see this big divide. Retired people who have proper pensions, maybe they have more than one property, just failing to Understand the reality of this younger boater generation. Criticising them. You are really, really lucky to have been born and worked when you did, can't you see that? Why do you hate them so much? They work hard, just like you did. Maybe they don't want to bring their kids up in a dump above a kebab shop ( because thats all you'll get if you're trying to manage on a wage now). No final salary scheme like you had, maybe on zero hours. Can't you see how different it is now? I don't blame people for getting boats, I mean for goodness sake, it's not exactly the easy option is it?

Thanks for saying it how it is, so what is the way out of this for CRT? ignore the rules or apply them like they are? or is there a middle road

[Lady Muck]

Just what this discussion needs - more stereotypes

 

Richard

I beg your pardon?

Thanks for saying it how it is, so what is the way out of this for CRT? ignore the rules or apply them like they are? or is there a middle road

I don't think they even know? Thats why everything is such a cock up.

[magnetman]

I beg your pardon?

 

I don't think they even know? Thats why everything is such a cock up.

 

I think RLWP was challenging your assertion that most people living on boats in London are too poor to afford alternatives. I for one think you may be completely wrong about that.

[Lady Muck]

Or for CRT to pay for planning permission and associated costs to provide legal liveaboard moorings

Where though? Way back in the London boaters heydey we did some research. Everywhere that can be developed now has been. The bits that haven't, you'd not get permission.

I think RLWP was challenging your assertion that most people living on boats in London are too poor to afford alternatives. I for one think you may be completely wrong about that.

I wasn't exactly referring to the rich hipsters with all the gear and no idea. This campaign isn't about them. I was thinking more of the campaigners I know in the NBTA, some of the boaters I personally know, families, mostly on low incomes. Edited May 11, 2016 by Lady Muck

[magnetman]

Fair enough I was wandering off topic a bit - I don't know anything about the NBTA - I was thinking about the excessive number of boats appearing in London (they even moor on Limehouse cut now talk about desperate) but reading the title its about the NBTA

 

sorry !

[Alan de Enfield]

Surely the issue is not if London boaters are too poor to afford alternatives, but the fact that they do not comply with what they have signed up to do.

 

If everyone moved as required (whatever that that may be) then there would be no enforcement, no evictions, and no problems.

[magnetman]

That's too cold and calculated - stop being so sensible

[Lady Muck]

Surely the issue is not if London boaters are too poor to afford alternatives, but the fact that they do not comply with what they have signed up to do.

 

If everyone moved as required (whatever that that may be) then there would be no enforcement, no evictions, and no problems.

Everyone always did what the EO demanded. But its been drastically changed. Everyone still tries hard to comply, we just suspect the goalposts will continue to move.

Fair enough I was wandering off topic a bit - I don't know anything about the NBTA - I was thinking about the excessive number of boats appearing in London (they even moor on Limehouse cut now talk about desperate) but reading the title its about the NBTA

sorry !

I suspect that we will run out of second hand boats for people to buy, pretty soon. That might put the kybosh on things.

[Emerald Fox]

It's such a simple and obvious solution that there has to be a catch - which may, I suspect, be that many liveaboards are not in the upper income bracket, so paying say £1,000 per year for a permanent mooring could be difficult for them.

 

Surely you mean 6000 Pounds/year for a morring in London? Even in Oxfordshire it's 1768/year for an 'agricultural mooring' just to the north of Cropredy - for a 40-foot boat.

[magnetman]

Everyone always did what the EO demanded. But its been drastically changed. Everyone still tries hard to comply, we just suspect the goalposts will continue to move.

 

I suspect that we will run out of second hand boats for people to buy, pretty soon. That might put the kybosh on things.

That's quite an extreme prediction! I would go the other way - once CRT get into enforcement properly and proceed with making living on a boat without a mooring more of a "ball ache" the second hand market might become rather buoyant.

[Lady Muck]

Surely you mean 6000 Pounds/year for a morring in London? Even in Oxfordshire it's 1768/year for an 'agricultural mooring' just to the north of Cropredy - for a 40-foot boat.

No availability. Plenty of boaters could afford £6k Not all of the moorings in the region are six grand a year, mine isn't. But they just never come free, ok one near me is about to become free, but only because the boater died ( I think he may have had that berth 40 years), I'm a noob on my mooring, only 10 years. We think (ok we know) that CRT will price us off. But for now, maybe on our stretch of moorings, its one berth free and up for auction, every other year.

[MtB]

Surely you mean 6000 Pounds/year for a morring in London? Even in Oxfordshire it's 1768/year for an 'agricultural mooring' just to the north of Cropredy - for a 40-foot boat.

I think £36k a year would be closer to the mark for a fully legit residential London mooring. If it isn't, I predict it soon will be.

[magnetman]

I can see what you are getting at but I think the muddy ditch aspect does depress values a bit and they will not rise in line with property prices.

 

Highest I am aware of is about £18k pa in Islington tunnel.

[MtB]

If I were looking for a London home, a studio flat for £350k still with a ground rent of £6k would make a fully legit resi mooring at £36k seem a bargain.

 

To me at least. And a lot of other boaters I'd bet.

[Sir Percy]

Everyone always did what the EO demanded. But its been drastically changed. Everyone still tries hard to comply, we just suspect the goalposts will continue to move.

 

I suspect that we will run out of second hand boats for people to buy, pretty soon. That might put the kybosh on things.

 

The first is to do with trying to put the brakes on the second, isn't it? For all that's said about how crowded it is in London, and how hard it is to comply, there's still more boats coming in. So the requirements will continue to be tuned, enforcement actions raised...

[mark99]

 

The first is to do with trying to put the brakes on the second, isn't it? For all that's said about how crowded it is in London, and how hard it is to comply, there's still more boats coming in. So the requirements will continue to be tuned, enforcement actions raised...

 

Good point. If it stayed where it was the London canals would be anarchic.

[magnetman]

If I were looking for a London home, a studio flat for £350k still with a ground rent of £6k would make a fully legit resi mooring at £36k seem a bargain.

 

To me at least. And a lot of other boaters I'd bet.

I think you are wrong. Possibly if the mooring included the use of a £200k luxury widebean then you might be onto something but a mooring alone in an area where you can still actually get a studio flat for £350k+£6k ground rent just doesn't add up.

PS £350k seems a bit cheap for a studio flat

[bassplayer]

Surely the issue is not if London boaters are too poor to afford alternatives, but the fact that they do not comply with what they have signed up to do.

 

If everyone moved as required (whatever that that may be) then there would be no enforcement, no evictions, and no problems.

Sorry Alan but it seems sometimes CWF is on a continuous loop.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Really?!

 

Athys joke is a good un and couldn't be considered anti-Semitic in the slightest.

I didn't say anti-semitic I just couldn't see the jewish relevance. There are some cracking jewish jokes around (often told by jewish people) it just seems that Athy's wasn't one of them