Battery warranty

[boatsandsteam]

​I may need soon 4 new domestic 12V batteries 110AH. I am a light user - weekends and the occasional week on the cut - otherwise boat in marina hooked up to mains charger - which is also a 3kw invertor.

 

So I look on ebay and come across Alpha batteries and their Xplorer range at £75 - 4 year warranty. I then check Alpha's own website and under boat batteries the same battery has a 3 year warranty. Under Narrowboats, the same battery has a 2 year warranty. So I am now confused and turn to the wisdom of this site.

 

Would people recommend Alpha or is there a better alternative and does the use determine the warranty period?

[peterboat]

I would find another supplier because clearly you are going to get a 2 year warranty because they are on a boat!!

[Alan de Enfield]

I think you will find that all battery warranties are 'worthless' / 'meaningless' in the respects that we would anticipate them failing.

 

The warranty will be against 'manufacturers faults' ONLY (ie case splitting, terminals become detached etc).

There is absolutely no warranty against them failing in 1 week, 6 months, or 2 years by not holding charge - the manufacturer has no way of telling how you have maintained them - have you flattened them to 1% SOC then tried to recharge them at high voltage, have you shorted them out with a spanner and distorted the internal plates ?

 

Basically purchase a battery without a warranty, its probably going to last just as long and will be cheaper.

 

You can destroy a £200 battery as easily as you can a £60 battery.

[IDS]

Go Outdoors seem to be selling 110 AH Leisure Batteries for £65, they claim a 2 yr conditional warranty, .....but the spec only claims 70 cycles to 50% !!!!

[ditchcrawler]

Go Outdoors seem to be selling 110 AH Leisure Batteries for £65, they claim a 2 yr conditional warranty, .....but the spec only claims 70 cycles to 50% !!!!

About 3 months for some uses then

[magnetman]

I suspect for more expensive batteries the warranty may be relevant but for basic leisure batteries they are consumables.

Rolls did replace a pair of batteries I bought when they became useless after 18 months. I did subject them to a lot of abuse but it is also possible they were part of a faulty batch which they knew about already.

 

I think that on balance batteries are consumables and warranty is probably not something to be too concerned with unless you are shelling out for "special" batteries.

 

The other side of it is that if you have a good battery dealer who you go to in person to buy batteries there is a chance you may simply receive good customer service and any warranty will be honoured.

 

The agro of shipping batteries back to a distant supplier may outweigh the advantages in a lot of cases. Rolls did not want the old batteries back in my case but I was a bit surprised by that - I thought they would want to check I wasn't making it up. This is why I think they may have been from a bad batch.

[raymondh]

Manbat warranty

 

The guarantee does not cover:

n Sulphation
n Wear and tear
n Deep cycling
n Overcharging
n Physical damage
n Incorrect application

A battery claim should be returned with proof of purchase to a Manbat distributor for testing.

 

Manbat is teh biggest? distributer of batteries in the UK

 

Ray

[dmr]

A battery warranty, like most warranties in fact, is against faulty parts and workmanship.

 

Standard leisures are typically good for 300 cycles, that is less than a year if used everyday, so you are not going to get a 3 year warranty against general failure! You just might be able to browbeat some suppliers into a new set, but don't expect it.

 

................Dave

[GUMPY]

I'm nearly 4 years into a set of explorers from Alpha bats.

Usage is similar to yours but spend more time connected than I like.

Will I buy from them again, yes, but I might not mention where I will be installing them

A battery warranty, like most warranties in fact, is against faulty parts and workmanship.

 

Standard leisures are typically good for 300 cycles, that is less than a year if used everyday, so you are not going to get a 3 year warranty against general failure! You just might be able to browbeat some suppliers into a new set, but don't expect it.

 

Not quite true. Leisure bats are typically good for 300 FULL cycles, this means if you only discharge by 25% a day then in fact its about 600 cycles not 300. Edited May 9, 2016 by Loddon

[Robbo]

I'm nearly 4 years into a set of explorers from Alpha bats.

Usage is similar to yours but spend more time connected than I like.

Will I buy from them again, yes, but I might not mention where I will be installing them

Not quite true. Leisure bats are typically good for 300 FULL cycles, this means if you only discharge by 25% a day then in fact its about 600 cycles not 300.

Depends on what the battery manu. call a cycle as it won't be 100% and may be rated at 25% discharge!. Trojan have a chart for percentage discharge for number of cycles. 1600 cycles for 50% discharge but that's if you fully charge after discharging, expect less if you don't, at 25% discharge the number of cycles is more than double the 1600 but can't recall the figure at the mo. Edited May 9, 2016 by Robbo

[Neil Smith]

I suspect for more expensive batteries the warranty may be relevant but for basic leisure batteries they are consumables.

Rolls did replace a pair of batteries I bought when they became useless after 18 months. I did subject them to a lot of abuse but it is also possible they were part of a faulty batch which they knew about already.

 

I think that on balance batteries are consumables and warranty is probably not something to be too concerned with unless you are shelling out for "special" batteries.

 

The other side of it is that if you have a good battery dealer who you go to in person to buy batteries there is a chance you may simply receive good customer service and any warranty will be honoured.

 

The agro of shipping batteries back to a distant supplier may outweigh the advantages in a lot of cases. Rolls did not want the old batteries back in my case but I was a bit surprised by that - I thought they would want to check I wasn't making it up. This is why I think they may have been from a bad batch.

Could it not be they are a good company and honour there warranties.

 

Neil

[dmr]

I

Not quite true. Leisure bats are typically good for 300 FULL cycles, this means if you only discharge by 25% a day then in fact its about 600 cycles not 300.

 

Yes, I am well aware of the cycles vs depth of discharge curves, though I have never actually seen one published for leisures, only for Trojans and Tractions. My point was that its quite possible to "exhaust" a battery in less than a year without abusing it in any way.

 

I assume when you say FULL cycle you mean 50%?

Actually when a leisure battery is said to be good for 300 cycles do we actually know what that cycles is?, we assume its 50% but is it ?????

 

..............Dave

[ditchcrawler]

. 1600 cycles for 50% discharge but that's if you fully charge after discharging,

Trouble is most people with problems don't recharge, not even to a high percentage.

[DHutch]

We have a decent set of 4x12v standard domestics to give an 24*110Ah bank, exides in this case I think. They have done us for I believe 9 years use.

 

They will have lost some capacity I am sure, maybe quite a lot, but they also still do all we need them two, however we only really use the boat when we are moving it, and almost always leave the boat promptly after a full days boating, and hence with full batteries. Just like a car, which will again often see a battery last a decade.

 

Kept on good charge, and always left full, almost anything other than real tat should last a lot time. They more you abuse them, the less they will last.

 

Weight is as good a measure as anything else in my book, rightly or wrongly. There is not much to do in terms of design, and the expensive bit is the lead!

 

 

Daniel

[WotEver]

... when a leisure battery is said to be good for 300 cycles do we actually know what that cycles is?

They should state the DoD used to supply the cycles figure however 'they' rarely do.

 

Which makes the figure pretty pointless.

 

I can sell you a battery that's good for 2000 cycles - but only if you never take it below 75% SoC and fully recharge it immediately after...

 

Tony

[dmr]

They should state the DoD used to supply the cycles figure however 'they' rarely do.

 

Which makes the figure pretty pointless.

 

I can sell you a battery that's good for 2000 cycles - but only if you never take it below 75% SoC and fully recharge it immediately after...

 

Tony

 

I think (not sure) some of them also define end of life when a battery drops to 50% of original capacity whilst with proper batteries end of life is 80% or even higher?

 

.................Dave

[cuthound]

In the commercial critical power battery world a cycle is defined by taking a fully charged battery down to 1.85 volts per cell and then fully recharging it.

 

End of life is defined as a capacity reduction to 80% of original capacity.

 

Warranties are given, but it is typically for 6 years, and on a sliding scale, 100% refund for a year 1 failure, down to 20% refund for a year 5 failure.

 

However it is important to note that in commercial critical power installations the battery conditions (charge and discharge rates, float voltage, temperature etc) are controlled and known to the battery manufacturer. This is most definitely not the case for batteries used in boats.

[Tony Brooks]

They should state the DoD used to supply the cycles figure however 'they' rarely do.

 

snip

 

The data for my Exide leisures gives 300 cycles at 40% but I was never able to find the DoD for other "cheap" batteries I have had.

[Robbo]

 

The data for my Exide leisures gives 300 cycles at 40% but I was never able to find the DoD for other "cheap" batteries I have had.

 

Varta info here: http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/leisure/

[magnetman]

Could it not be they are a good company and honour there warranties.

 

Neil

Yes they are a good company as they replaced two batteries which were about £280 each retail. I sent them fairly detailed analysis of the original battery blocks both of which had one almost completely dead cell (SG tested with a refractometer was below 1.1 while other 2 cells were 1.24-1.26). I also explained my charging regime. The man from Rolls told me I was not charging them properly and causing sulfation (true) but was still willing to authorise replacements to be sent out by the UK supplier Bardens.

 

Yes - very good company good customer service.

[dmr]

 

Varta info here: http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/leisure/

 

Thanks, that's a useful link. Figures for different battery types from the same manufacturer are particularly interesting,

 

I note that all cycles lives are "up to" rather than "typical".

 

Up to 200 cycles at 50% for a "professional" dual purpose, think I'll stick with my Trojans.

 

..................Dave

[Robbo]

Thanks, that's a useful link. Figures for different battery types from the same manufacturer are particularly interesting,

 

I note that all cycles lives are "up to" rather than "typical".

 

Up to 200 cycles at 50% for a "professional" dual purpose, think I'll stick with my Trojans.

 

..................Dave

Trojan graph here - http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/datasheets/T105RE_TrojanRE_Data_Sheets.pdf

[Robbo]

Rolls 5000 series - http://rollsbattery.com/wp-content/uploads/specsheets/12CS11P.pdf

[dmr]

Rolls 5000 series - http://rollsbattery.com/wp-content/uploads/specsheets/12CS11P.pdf

 

Yes, I already have these (and more) stashed in the battery folder on my hard disk. Its interesting that, for example, the US and Trojan specs are a bit different for what are similar batteries. Does this reflect real battery performance or just how the data is measured? I suspect these curves are based on a mixture of measurement, prediction and extrapolation.

The Rolls do look seriously good.

I have seen a curve for some True Tractions that are no better than Trojans, not sure if I saved that one.

What would be interesting is the equivalent curve for some cheapo leisures. Would the curve have a similar shape and slope, or would cycle life fall much more steeply at deeper discharges????

 

...............Dave

[WotEver]

Would the curve have a similar shape and slope, or would cycle life fall much more steeply at deeper discharges????

 

The latter, almost certainly.

 

Tony