Steerers Required 1 July Birmingham to Manchester

[cotswoldsman]

Following the great success of last years Stratford2Stratford we are doing simillar again this year but maybe even slightly more ambitious. We will be taking 20 children from disadvantaged backgrounds on the trip of a lifetime.

This years project is called Dance on Water the children 10 from Birmingham and 10 from Manchester will set off from Norbury Junction on the Shropshire Union on 1 July to arrive and moor outside The Lowry on the Manchester Ship Canal on 8 July where they will give a performance at the famous Lowry Theater on 9 July at the International Youth Dance Festival infront of a packed audience. A life changing experience. they will follow this with a performance at The Birmingham Hippodrome.

This year we have been lucky enough to be partnered by Sir Matthew Bourne's dance company New Adventures through Sir Matthew Bourne's Foundation Re:Bourne. New Adventures are joined by The Lowry, Birmingham Hippodrome and CRT as partners. New Adventures will provide the Choreographers who will travel on the boats teaching the children a brand new routine.

 

We need steerers to take the boats to Manchester and back to Norbury. The steerers should simply be experienced at handling Narrowboats as each boat has a maximum of only 10 passengers no formal qualification is required, steerers will however have to have a DBS check. The boats making the trip are as follows. 2 x 10 berth, 1 x 8 berth and 1 x 6 berth all Norbury Hire Boats and 1 Restaurant Boat.. There are a number of options.

 

1. Do the complete trip there and back taking 14 days. The children will leave the boats early morning on 10 July and the steerers then have the option to use the boats for a short holiday with Family and Friends returning the boats to Norbury on 15 July.

 

2. Just do the one way to Manchester from 1 July to 8 July

 

3. 10 July to 15 July re-positioning boats to Norbury where you can simply use them for your own pleasure.

 

Anyone interested please message me via CWF or email me on sloan.john@yahoo.co.uk

 

This project has been put together by a very dedicated team and your support will be much appreciated.

 

Just to give people a flavour of what can be achieved by New Adventures with children watch this video filmed at The Lowry for the production of Lord of the Flies

 

 

This is a preview of last years project

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by cotswoldsman

[cotswoldsman]

Sorry should have said if you live along the route and want to help with Locks etc or just came and say hello please do. This project is as much about telling children about our historic canals as it is about learning to dance.

[Horace42]

Sorry should have said if you live along the route and want to help with Locks etc or just came and say hello please do. This project is as much about telling children about our historic canals as it is about learning to dance.

An admirable quest. I regret I cannot be of any help, but please advise the actual route to Manchester you plan to take - or is it optional - well-wishers and lock helpers will need to know.

[cotswoldsman]

I will certainly publish the full itinerary nearer the date with full details bur basically along Shropshire, Middlewich Branch, T&MY, Bridgewater and onto MSC in Manchester and then onto Lowry in Salford.

[cotswoldsman]

We had our first workshop yesterday in Birmingham it was a great day and to just see the children all so keen was very warming. After all the months of planning it makes it all seem worthwhile.

[cotswoldsman]

Journey Plan for those interested

 

Day 1 – 01/07

(Shropshire Union Canal)

Skippers collect boats from The Wharf, Norbury Junction, Staffordshire, ST20 0PN

 

Day 2 – 02/07

(Shropshire Union Canal)

Norbury – Adderley Locks )Hawkesmoor visitor moorings

 

Day 3 – 03/07

(Shropshire Union Canal)

Adderley Locks - Barbridge

 

Day 4 – 04/07

(Shropshire Union Canal/Middlewich Branch/Trent & Mersey)

Barbridge – Billinge Green Flash (below Rudheath Br 180A/180)

 

Day 5 - 05/07

((Shropshire Union Canal/

Middlewich Branch/Trent & Mersey)

The Flashes Br 180/181 to Anderton Boat Lift (Trent & Mersey)

 

Day 6 – 06/02

(Tent & Mersey Canal/Bridgewater Canal (non CRT))

Anderton Boat Lift – Lymme (Lymm Br 23, A6144)

 

Day 7 – 07/07

(Bridgewater Canal (Main Line/Manchester Ship Canal))

Lymm – Lowry

[cotswoldsman]

http://new-adventures.net/rebourne/projects/dance-on-water

[Horace42]

Thanks for details of the route. Please clarify if it is your preference to have one group of steerers (per boat?) who stay with the boat(s) and sleep on board every night for the whole round trip. Or is it a relay of steerers for daily legs - just wondered...

[cotswoldsman]

Try and keep one skipper for the trip with the children the relationship between everyone on the trip with the children is very important and also how we all work as a team.

[junior]

Hi John, it seems that you haven't publicly had many offers, although obviously you may have had plenty of offers via PM.

 

This trip is something that intersts me very much, but as much as I'd like to, working commitments prevent me from offering to do the full trip.

I'm not sure how much use to you this would be, but if you get closer to the trip and find yourselves short of volunteers I may be able to do a couple of the days. So feel free to put me down as a back - up plan if you wish. I appreciate that it would have to be with enough notice to sort the DBS check.

 

Personally, I have experience with Community Boats, hold a NCBA CCBM (community Boat Skipper Certificate) as well as having been previously DBS Checked so I should be 'on their system'. I also have good knowledge of the route!

[cotswoldsman]

Hi John, it seems that you haven't publicly had many offers, although obviously you may have had plenty of offers via PM.

 

This trip is something that intersts me very much, but as much as I'd like to, working commitments prevent me from offering to do the full trip.

I'm not sure how much use to you this would be, but if you get closer to the trip and find yourselves short of volunteers I may be able to do a couple of the days. So feel free to put me down as a back - up plan if you wish. I appreciate that it would have to be with enough notice to sort the DBS check.

 

Personally, I have experience with Community Boats, hold a NCBA CCBM (community Boat Skipper Certificate) as well as having been previously DBS Checked so I should be 'on their system'. I also have good knowledge of the route!

 

Thank you so much I have had 4 offers from here and a number from Facebook so it is looking ok but yes having some more names would be helpful and at present it is only people showing an interest so no commitment yet.

My problem has been that I have been rather disstracted by events in Europe so have not given this the time I originally commited to but thankfully I am working with a fantastic team so my absence has made no difference. Does not say much about me hehe

[cotswoldsman]

Thanks to all those that offered to help. We now have required number but interested to hear from those interested to go on reserve list incase anyone has to drop out.

We have had a fantastic response from children wishing to take part and have been holding workshops in Manchester and Birmingham. This weekend we did Manchester yesterday and Birmingham again today. I attended a Birmingham workshop last Saturday and to just see the enthusiasm of the children made me finally realise all the hard work by the team is worthwhile.

[fanshaft]

 

 

We need steerers to take the boats to Manchester and back to Norbury. The steerers should simply be experienced at handling Narrowboats as each boat has a maximum of only 10 passengers no formal qualification is required, steerers will however have to have a DBS check. The boats making the trip are as follows. 2 x 10 berth, 1 x 8 berth and 1 x 6 berth all Norbury Hire Boats and 1 Restaurant Boat.. There are a number of options.

 

I am surprised no-one has picked up on this. Any vessel that is not being used for private pleasure (defined in MGN 489 as a vessel used for the private pleasure of the owner, family or friends and for no payment other than a contribution towards expenses) has to be in the charge of a qualified person and more information on this is contained in MSN 1808 . If the number of passengers (if any) is 12 or less then for non tidal waterways and vessels under 24 metres alternatives to the full Boat Master licence are accepted such as RYA Helmsman or NCBA Certificate and these are used by the the majority or small passenger and coal boat etc operators.

Best of luck with the project.

David L

[Horace42]

 

 

 

We need steerers to take the boats to Manchester and back to Norbury. The steerers should simply be experienced at handling Narrowboats as each boat has a maximum of only 10 passengers no formal qualification is required, steerers will however have to have a DBS check. The boats making the trip are as follows. 2 x 10 berth, 1 x 8 berth and 1 x 6 berth all Norbury Hire Boats and 1 Restaurant Boat.. There are a number of options.

 

I am surprised no-one has picked up on this. Any vessel that is not being used for private pleasure (defined in MGN 489 as a vessel used for the private pleasure of the owner, family or friends and for no payment other than a contribution towards expenses) has to be in the charge of a qualified person and more information on this is contained in MSN 1808 . If the number of passengers (if any) is 12 or less then for non tidal waterways and vessels under 24 metres alternatives to the full Boat Master licence are accepted such as RYA Helmsman or NCBA Certificate and these are used by the the majority or small passenger and coal boat etc operators.

Best of luck with the project.

David L

Probably because we are not experts. What is a qualified person? - what is MGN and MSN ? - my private boat has to have a qualified person in charge to comply with the insurance policy - but no mention of certificates etc. Who polices the waterways to check on these things - isn't it something Norbury boats would require for insurance purposes before allowing their boats out on hire - you seem to have opened a can of worms - if this is the Law - is it a criminal offence to steer a boat as a volunteer skipper (and one per oat?) - to my mind it has gone from a damned good idea - why bother!

I sincerely hope Cotswoldman has got his act together - which seems likely because it is a repeat of a previous successful trip.

 

This is not hire boat or passenger boat trip in the normal commercial sense - where do we really stand on all this - it is out of curiosity I ask the question for my own education

[cotswoldsman]

The advice we have is that the children are not fare paying passengers and are simply being taken on a holiday thanks to the generosity of a number of people. The insurance has been checked and we were advised that as long as there were no more than 12 people on boat at any time insurance was fine. 2 of the boats are 10 berth hire boats and insured as such hence to be extra safe we will stick to 10 per boat for those 2 boats.

[Peter X]

That advice fits with what I've understood so far in my various trips as crew on other people's boats; I think "friends" can include anyone invited onto the boat who is neither paying a fare (i.e. a customer of a business) or conversely paid to be there (and hence an employee). They don't even have to have met before; often I've met people for the first time upon arrival at the boat, as I will with hackenbush on 5th June.

 

But I must admit I haven't read the regulations fanshaft mentions, and the exact wording of those plus any legal precedents might change my mind if I knew them (and could be bothered to study them!).

PS: Good luck with this trip; I'm optimistically expecting to be in front of a TV watching England in the Euro semi-final and final at that time, but if they're knocked out and my lack of formal boating qualifications doesn't bar me, please consider me to be a possible reserve steerer/crew. But I'd need the DBS check done, I have no idea how long that takes.

[fanshaft]

 

 

 

 

We need steerers to take the boats to Manchester and back to Norbury. The steerers should simply be experienced at handling Narrowboats as each boat has a maximum of only 10 passengers no formal qualification is required, steerers will however have to have a DBS check. The boats making the trip are as follows. 2 x 10 berth, 1 x 8 berth and 1 x 6 berth all Norbury Hire Boats and 1 Restaurant Boat.. There are a number of options.

 

I am surprised no-one has picked up on this. Any vessel that is not being used for private pleasure (defined in MGN 489 as a vessel used for the private pleasure of the owner, family or friends and for no payment other than a contribution towards expenses) has to be in the charge of a qualified person and more information on this is contained in MSN 1808 . If the number of passengers (if any) is 12 or less then for non tidal waterways and vessels under 24 metres alternatives to the full Boat Master licence are accepted such as RYA Helmsman or NCBA Certificate and these are used by the the majority or small passenger and coal boat etc operators.

Best of luck with the project.

David L

Probably because we are not experts. What is a qualified person? - what is MGN and MSN ? - my private boat has to have a qualified person in charge to comply with the insurance policy - but no mention of certificates etc. Who polices the waterways to check on these things - isn't it something Norbury boats would require for insurance purposes before allowing their boats out on hire - you seem to have opened a can of worms - if this is the Law - is it a criminal offence to steer a boat as a volunteer skipper (and one per oat?) - to my mind it has gone from a damned good idea - why bother!

I sincerely hope Cotswoldman has got his act together - which seems likely because it is a repeat of a previous successful trip.

 

This is not hire boat or passenger boat trip in the normal commercial sense - where do we really stand on all this - it is out of curiosity I ask the question for my own education

 

Hi,

 

The over arching body responsible for safety of boats and boating ('policing' if you wish) on the UK inland waterways and the coastal waters is the Maritime & Coastguard Agency (MCA). As the Board of Trade it became more involved with the smaller canals and waterways in the 1950s when passenger carrying boats were inroduced in numbers by British Waterways and others such as John James.

MCA issues 'M' noitices (to which I referred and easy to find on the web) which detail the regulations for vessel constriuction and maintenance and crew qualifications, and offer advice as to how to interpret same. .

 

Inland waterway pleasure craft (including hire boats) used for 'private pleasure' enjoy a General Exemption from the majority of the regulations as it's deemed that (for example) the Boat Safety Scheme will cover what's necessary.

 

Whether or not passengers are fare paying doesn't affect the rule of 'no more than twelve passengers plus crew', but does help to define what is private use. I haven't found any evidence that (say) a group of school children travelling on a boat (hired or private) would or would not be deemed to be 'friends' of the owner or hirer - but in my long experience of operating passenger and hire boats I've found that over the years schools and similar have become more 'picky' about qualifications in recent years, something that wouldn't have been mentioned years ago. This was confirmed in discussion this morning (by chance) with a former senior officer of NCBA (Community Boats) whose personal opinion was that anyone taking the public (i.e. not family or friends) on a boat (regardless of whether paying or not) should ideally have some training not only in boat operation but also boat and safety management - hence the NCBA training courses which I'm told are very good.

 

Anyway, I hope the trips are very successful and that we 'hook' at least one or two youngsters as future waterway enthusiasts!

 

Kind regards

 

David L

Edited May 16, 2016 by fanshaft

[Horace42]

Thanks to David L for the low down on the legalities - it is nice to know someone is keeping an eye on these things for all our sakes.

 

In my own case I would say Ihave 100% confidence in my own ability to handle a narrowboat on canals but little knowledge of handling 'passengers' - which to my mind becomes quite important if they are young people with minds of their own.

But generally speaking you usually find someone in the party knows what to do. It's a question of getting organised - meaning one captain at a time.

Good luck to Cotswoldman on the trip. Sounds fun!

 

 

[cotswoldsman]

Thanks for advise. We are doing full H&S assessments as as we did last year when it was 30 children. There are 8 adults plus skippers and chikdren all over 16 only spend half day on boat as the other half they are taken to rehearsals. They do spend the night on boat but Norbury Wharf have kindly donated Resuarant boat for evenings eating and relaxing.

[Rob-M]

We (Heritage Working Boats Group) operate on the basis that with less than 12 non fare paying people on board the skipper does not have to have a helmsman certification. All our skippers have been assessed by CRT under their own assessment.

[andyb116]

As an MCA Boatmaster may be I could offer you some advise. It may be worth contacting Richard Snape at the MCA office in Liverpool 0151 931 6600 to clarify the regs you need to comply with, or contact Malcolm Allcard at the Boatmaster centre 0845 409 7062 as he does all the MCA training and knows the regs inside out and could give you the difinitve answer. As an aside, if I wasn't working I would of loved to do this trip with you, but will look for you coming past my mooring. I wish you all the beast for the trip and hope everyone enjoy's it.

Andy B

Edited May 17, 2016 by andyb116

[cotswoldsman]

Thanks Andy will pass your numbers onto Helen who is doing an amazingly time consuming job as project leader. We were lucky Helen joined us not only was she a producer with RE:Bourne working on Lord of the Flies she is also a boater.

Edited May 17, 2016 by cotswoldsman

[fanshaft]

We (Heritage Working Boats Group) operate on the basis that with less than 12 non fare paying people on board the skipper does not have to have a helmsman certification. All our skippers have been assessed by CRT under their own assessment.

 

It could be argued that if all your crew are friends then your trips are for 'private pleasure' and so no qualification is needed (that is the test). But actually it doesn't matter as the CRT qualification your skippers have is one of those accepted by MCA in lieu of the BML for A & B waterways. MSN 1808 Annex 1 refers to the BW certificate and is amended by MIN 457 to reflect the change to CRT.

As previously stated the fact that passengers are non fare paying doesn't really make that much difference - if a canal society offers free trips on its work boat at an event then the skipper still needs one of the approved certifications. Incidentally I asked an MCA (then BoT) surveyor many years ago why the maximum of 12 passengers plus crew had been agreed for general exemption from being classed as a 'passenger ship' and was told it allowed the very many small ferries in the UK to operate with minimal regulation. Number of crew on these is usually one, but isn't specified. (The Leeds Water taxi comes to mind). I guess (say) a 12 seater restaurant boat might argue for four crew (skipper, chef and bar/waiting staff) but you couldn't get away with 12 passengers and twelve crew!

Regards

David L

As an MCA Boatmaster may be I could offer you some advise. It may be worth contacting Richard Snape at the MCA office in Liverpool 0151 931 6600 to clarify the regs you need to comply with, or contact Malcolm Allcard at the Boatmaster centre 0845 409 7062 as he does all the MCA training and knows the regs inside out and could give you the difinitve answer. As an aside, if I wasn't working I would of loved to do this trip with you, but will look for you coming past my mooring. I wish you all the beast for the trip and hope everyone enjoy's it.

Andy B

 

That's very good advice - though at the end of the day all Richard or Malcolm can do is to consult the regulations!

 

Regards

 

David L