Journalism plumbs new depths

[Mac of Cygnet]

I don't.

Now the IPL, that's another (and very interesting) story.

 

Don't worry, Mike - I'm sure you don't suffer from it.

[Athy]

 

Don't worry, Mike - I'm sure you don't suffer from it.

I suffer, about this time of year, from no longer being able to watch the IPL because the bloody Dirty Digger has snaffled it for his Council House T.V. outfit.

[honey ryder]

I look forward to the deafening silence of the apologies;

 

http://kanda.boatingcommunity.org.uk/an-open-letter-to-matthew-symonds-and-crt/

 

E-mailed to Matthew Symonds and CRT Customer Feedback.

 

An Open Letter Re: Article: 'CRT Relationship Manager: Liveaboards are 'gits'. K&A Boating Community website, 30th April 2016.

 

Dear Matthew,

 

I'm not sure that you'd remember me, although we've crossed paths a few times over the years.

 

The first was at an event back in 2007. I was working as Bristol's Race Forum Development Worker, and you were giving an update to the voluntary sector about the latest local authority strategies.

 

The second time was in 2011 when I toured you around Bristol Wood Recycling Project during their birthday celebration. I was recently in post as an Employee Director, and you'd accepted our invitation on behalf of the organisation you were working for. I enjoyed our chats as I showed you around, and we talked at length about the work that we were both doing.

 

The third time was earlier this year, as I was leaving a training session with former colleagues of yours. It was the 4th February to be exact, and we were hovering on the pavement outside the Southville Centre as you passed by and stopped for a quick hello with those that you knew. It was this conversation that forms the source of the comments that you state. via Twitter, are certainly not something I've ever said. But you did say them Matthew, and you said them twice.

 

As the group of us swelled with people leaving the training session, twice you were directly asked about your new job as Strategy and Engagement Manager at CRT, as your former colleagues were genuinely interested as to how it was going. Twice you commented that you loved your job, 'aside from the gits on the liveaboards'. In fact, I recollect they were the only two comments that you made specifically about your job, suggesting to me that they may have been the two most pressing things on your mind when you thought about your work.

 

From my previous encounters with you, I was surprised and disappointed to hear those words coming from you, however much you may have meant them in jest or good humour. Whilst I appreciate that CRT endeavours to balance a number of needs in relation to the canal network, and understand that those needs may at times be in conflict, making even offhand comments about a section of the beneficiaries of CRT is indeed a serious cause for concern. Furthermore, while you have publically made pains to reinforce the fact that CRT is not a public body, and therefore you are not a public officer, your specific role does include managing and developing relationships across the canal network. My confidence in your ability to do that fairly, and with the needs of all beneficiaries equally in your mind waned on that day, and this is why I have spoken with boat dwelling friends about our encounter and the broader issues with CRT.

 

To hear now that you have publically stated, via Twitter, It is not something I would ever say and Certainly not something I've ever said is even more disappointing. While I appreciate that you may regret that these words have now entered a public sphere, I'm displeased to think that you would deny they were ever spoken.

 

And don't get me wrong, I was as surprised as you to hear that conversations I have had about our encounter are now in written form swirling around the internet. From my part, I did not write nor publish the article written about you, and nor do I know the writer. But I do know that former colleagues of yours looked uncomfortably over at me when you made the git comment as they know I have long been planning to move onto the canal, and also know that I have close ties with members of the boating community around the Kennet and Avon and beyond.

 

Prior to this role at CRT you had a strong track record in neighbourhoods and communities work, but something is clearly going wrong. And while I don't want my sharing of your words to become a witch-hunt against you, as you are merely a functionary within a bigger organisation with a strategy in place for management of the waterways, they do lead me to question the current culture, structure and decision-making body at CRT as a whole.

 

While, as Wikipedia points out, git is usually an insult, more severe than twit or idiot but less severe than wanker, arsehole or twat, it is not the strength of the insult that is the issue. It is a derogatory comment about a section of the canal community just at the time that the Canal and River Trust is being publically challenged to be accountable, consistant and transparent as to the rules and stipulations that those license holders who are continuously cruising are expected to adhere to.

 

It is time for CRT to enter into a transparent and constructive dialogue with the continuous cruising users of the waterways, and to cease prohibitive, unclear and constantly changing measures for how continuous cruisers can maintain their licenses and their homes. These positions have been much more eloquently presented to you by boat dwellers themselves, and they must be addressed by CRT.

 

Yours sincerely,

it's quite wordy.

[magnetman]

[Witchword]

I'm not sure how posting something on FB can be regarded as '..much less public...'. You are putting up a written record of your opinion and once posted you have effectively lost all control over it, it can very easily 'go viral'. You'd then be struggling to deny having made the comment when it can be linked to your FB profile, you can try the old chestnut 'I must have been hacked', but few people are going to believe it. Yes, that was my point but I must have made it badly. I meant by less public that my ex-colleague was not a public figure in the same way MS is, but the post she made was visible to members of the public so it was public enough to effectively get her sacked.

 

An off the cuff remark (assuming that the remark was in fact made, which you seem to be assuming that it was) can be denied or even claim to have been misheard ( I actually said," I love it except for all those wits on liveaboards" (J for Joke!)). True, but we will never know the truth. I'm not judging the truth of this, but someone above linked to remarks made on FB by MS and Denise Yelland (the two names I knew, there were others commenting) and I found them to be crass and ill-advised, for the reasons you mentioned above.

 

Ultimately if KANDA do manage to get Symonds out of the job it will be something of a Pyrrhic victory since CRT will just appoint someone else, probably with similar views into the role, or perhaps even more aggressive viewsQuite possibly.

People in these roles should really think about whether they use Facebook at all; it certainly shouldn't be used to discuss their professional role. In my previous job we were all advised that our FB use and friendships (ie no friendships with pupils or parents of pupils) can be heavily scrutinised and if it's inappropriate we can be dismissed without notice.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

People in these roles should really think about whether they use Facebook at all; it certainly shouldn't be used to discuss their professional role. In my previous job we were all advised that our FB use and friendships (ie no friendships with pupils or parents of pupils) can be heavily scrutinised and if it's inappropriate we can be dismissed without notice.

I have found the perfect answer, you wont find me either on FB or Twitter so I've never had a problem with either (and amazingly life goes on outside the Twittersphere and FB land ). I have however seen several people drop themselves into severe trouble by 'light-hearted' remarks on FB, one of whom became subject of a Child Protection enquiry (eventually closed with no further action), not quite so funny for her though.

[Witchword]

I have found the perfect answer, you wont find me either on FB or Twitter so I've never had a problem with either (and amazingly life goes on outside the Twittersphere and FB land ). I have however seen several people drop themselves into severe trouble by 'light-hearted' remarks on FB, one of whom became subject of a Child Protection enquiry (eventually closed with no further action), not quite so funny for her though.

Exactly.

I both hate FB and use it as it's handy for keeping in touch with faraway friends, but I keep my privacy settings high and usually just post things about the value of the NHS... hopefully nothing undesirable in that! However I think the time will come to stop using it, probably in the not-too-distant future.

[Guest]

I have found the perfect answer, you wont find me either on FB or Twitter so I've never had a problem with either (and amazingly life goes on outside the Twittersphere and FB land ). I have however seen several people drop themselves into severe trouble by 'light-hearted' remarks on FB, one of whom became subject of a Child Protection enquiry (eventually closed with no further action), not quite so funny for her though.

 

On the other hand it's perfectly possible to enjoy the likes of Facebook or Twitter without dropping yourself in it. Just be circumspect about what you post on their, it's not hard.

 

No harder in fact than it is on somewhere like here. In fact on here you cannot control who sees what you post on here whilst on Facebook you can. Yes you can be more annon on here making you harder to trace but you could be if needed.

 

Participation in FB and Twitter doesn't mean people who do cannot appreciate there is a world outside of them in the same way as people who participate in internet forums.

Edited May 6, 2016 by MJG

[patty-ann]

FB and Twitter are very much part of to-days society and although I only dabble I can see their uses ...I can also see how people get in a right mess..comments posted without thought or when under the influence can rapidly spread. There in lies peoples ruin.

I attended court a few times as observer and people were using FB comments to provide evidence...

They are also the modern equivalent of signs on lamp posts with lost/stolen dogs etc and warnings...which can be very successful.

My youngest son has just embarked on a huge under taking for charity and he is using FB and twitter to get it right out there in the public arena..without these mediums to spread the word it would be so much more difficult to raise awareness of these enterprises.

Edited May 6, 2016 by patty-ann

[Wanderer Vagabond]

 

On the other hand it's perfectly possible to enjoy the likes of Facebook or Twitter without dropping yourself in it. Just be circumspect about what you post on their, it's not hard.

 

No harder in fact than it is on somewhere like here. In fact on here you cannot control who sees what you post on here whilst on Facebook you can. Yes you can be more annon on here making you harder to trace but you could be if needed.

 

Participation in FB and Twitter doesn't mean people who do cannot appreciate there is a world outside of them in the same way as people who participate in internet forums.

I think that there is a false sense of security regarding FB postings. The simple rule is never post anything that you wouldn't want the whole world to read . Obviously as a non-participant I am just speculating but it seems easy to me for anyone to repost whatever you may put up on FB simply by 'Screen-snatching' it and sending it to all of their friends, is there any facility to stop that? If not then the 'security settings' are a bit pointless.

 

On here there isn't a record of what my name is, you can find out where I am and what boat I'm on by looking at the blog link but you still wont know what my name is so it would take some serious effort to find out that information, unlike FB where it is there for everyone to see. Posters that I have met may well know my first name but that is about it. If FB accepted the minimal amount of info that is needed here I may consider using it but I have no intention of giving them the amount of info that they ask for to join, I've survived without it. Having seen a colleague undergo a Police Child Protection investigation as a result of a light-hearted comment on FB, passed onto the authorities by someone who didn't like her but was given access to the comment, I think I can live without that sort of stuff. She only posted so her 'friends' could see it,but clearly one of them wasn't a 'friend'!

[Wanderer Vagabond]

FB and Twitter are very much part of to-days society and although I only dabble I can see their uses ...I can also see how people get in a right mess..comments posted without thought or when under the influence can rapidly spread. There in lies peoples ruin.

I attended court a few times as observer and people were using FB comments to provide evidence...

They are also the modern equivalent of signs on lamp posts with lost/stolen dogs etc and warnings...which can be very successful.

My youngest son has just embarked on a huge under taking for charity and he is using FB and twitter to get it right out there in the public arena..without these mediums to spread the word it would be so much more difficult to raise awareness of these enterprises.

Yes, that was another issue that prevented me from entertaining the idea of going on FB. In a previous employment it was well known that prior to a court case the defence solicitors would do a FB search for any officers in the case to check whether they were making any disparaging comments that could be construed as prejudicial to their client, or the real golden find would be discussing any matter relating to the case which could then lead to Criminal Charges (and obviously the dismissal of the case).

[Arthur Marshall]

Everything on the net should be treated as though you're writing a postcard for anyone to read. That being said, it's the anonymity that lets the insults fly. Mostly, those who admit who they are by using all or part of their names tend not to be so pugnacious.

That being said, my real name of course is Aloysius Fortinbras and I'd never dream if using it on FB.

[Dave_P]

Everything on the net should be treated as though you're writing a postcard for anyone to read. That being said, it's the anonymity that lets the insults fly. Mostly, those who admit who they are by using all or part of their names tend not to be so pugnacious.

That being said, my real name of course is Aloysius Fortinbras and I'd never dream if using it on FB.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Dave_P

[Guest]

I think that there is a false sense of security regarding FB postings. The simple rule is never post anything that you wouldn't want the whole world to read . Obviously as a non-participant I am just speculating but it seems easy to me for anyone to repost whatever you may put up on FB simply by 'Screen-snatching' it and sending it to all of their friends, is there any facility to stop that? If not then the 'security settings' are a bit pointless.

 

On here there isn't a record of what my name is, you can find out where I am and what boat I'm on by looking at the blog link but you still wont know what my name is so it would take some serious effort to find out that information, unlike FB where it is there for everyone to see. Posters that I have met may well know my first name but that is about it. If FB accepted the minimal amount of info that is needed here I may consider using it but I have no intention of giving them the amount of info that they ask for to join, I've survived without it. Having seen a colleague undergo a Police Child Protection investigation as a result of a light-hearted comment on FB, passed onto the authorities by someone who didn't like her but was given access to the comment, I think I can live without that sort of stuff. She only posted so her 'friends' could see it,but clearly one of them wasn't a 'friend'!

 

My point is about reducing the risk, you cannot eliminate it. That is why I have a very tight group of FB 'friends', mainly close family now. I get multiple friend requests from friends of FB friends often from people I barely know, I just ignore them. (The best ones are from people who I used to work with who caused me more problems than the rest of the staff put together, err no thanks, you got up my nose at work why would I suddenly want to be your friend on FB)

 

The very fact you post on here and on a blog means you can be traced.

 

There was a fascinating article on the TV the other day about somebody doing just that using various bits of info. from the 'net that they had posted including pictures. It was surprisingly easy. I would be less confident than you that if somebody wants to they cannot find out who you are and where you are relatively easily.

 

Starting point would be:-

 

Ex copper on a boat named Rune in the Milton Keynes area moored near Campbell Park, recently bought gas from Whilton Marina (Does anybody remember him or know his name I need to contact him urgently) etc etc.

 

You get the picture I'm sure.

 

and work from there.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

 

My point is about reducing the risk, you cannot eliminate it. That is why I have a very tight group of FB 'friends', mainly close family now. I get multiple friend requests from friends of FB friends often from people I barely know, I just ignore them. (The best ones are from people who I used to work with who caused me more problems than the rest of the staff put together, err no thanks, you got up my nose at work why would I suddenly want to be your friend on FB)

 

The very fact you post on here and on a blog means you can be traced.

 

There was a fascinating article on the TV the other day about somebody doing just that using various bits of info. from the 'net that they had posted including pictures. It was surprisingly easy. I would be less confident than you that if somebody wants to they cannot find out who you are and where you are relatively easily.

 

Starting point would be:-

 

Ex copper on a boat named Rune in the Milton Keynes area moored near Campbell Park, recently bought gas from Whilton Marina (Does anybody remember him or know his name I need to contact him urgently) etc etc.

 

You get the picture I'm sure.

 

and work from there.

Finding where I am is dead easy, that is why I run a blog, finding out who I am is somewhat more problematic. All of the info highlighted wont actually get you anywhere, the best that you could hope for is someone might say '"Yes, we saw RUNE go through on Friday", but since I'll post my next location on the blog you could just wait until I post again. I can't remember the last boater I passed my christian name to but it was probably the other side of Braunston somewhere. The only people on the system who have my full details are bound by the Data Protection Act so if the last place I fuelled up passes out those details, they will be reported to the Information Commissioners Office with a view to prosecution (likewise CRT).

 

I also watched the same programme you referred to, it was, if I recall, a team trying to track down an internet 'troll'. I also did that sort of work so am aware of the methods used, hence my absence from FB/twitter etc. In terms of security I'm not the least bothered in people knowing where I am, my greater concern is of them knowing where I'm not. Let us say, hypothetically, that I'm called Alfred Muggins from Guildford and this can be found from my hypothetical FB profile. For someone that knows that I'm living on a boat for a lot of the time this information is priceless. Ignoring the obvious burglary risk there is far more money to be made in making use of my empty address in Guildford by opening numerous bank accounts using that address, getting into the property and recovering the postal stuff sent out by the various banks,credit card companies etc and running up huge bills that I would be totally unaware of. This isn't paranoia this is basic security of personal information, something that I take quite seriously. You can read all my postings on here and all my blog postings and you still wont find out much personal information about me, that is no accident

[magnetman]

To be honest I never really took much interest in the London Mayoral election as it has no effect on me at all, but seeing the way it is panning out I rather hope that Goldsmith isn't just beaten, but humiliated

He did get beaten pretty soundly

[Wanderer Vagabond]

He did get beaten pretty soundly

Yes, I noted that I just hope that his campaign team take the lesson on board. He isn't such a bad sort of person but the campaign itself got exactly the result it deserved.

[Arthur Marshall]

Assuming this is atill a discussion and anyone can join in, I still refuse to have any faith in anything posted under a pseudonym. Why should anyone give any credence to "facts" quoted by people who won't even admit who they are? Or any weight to opinions stated by those who haven't even got the bottle to do the same?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Assuming this is atill a discussion and anyone can join in, I still refuse to have any faith in anything posted under a pseudonym. Why should anyone give any credence to "facts" quoted by people who won't even admit who they are? Or any weight to opinions stated by those who haven't even got the bottle to do the same?

Not sure why credence should be given to 'facts' quoted by anyone whether named or not. Fact should be backed up with sources checkable by anyone so whether under a pseudonym or not is irrelevant, the fact and source should be the information.

[Paul C]

Locked pending moderator review.

[Paul C]

Thread re-opened after a clean up.

[StarUKKiwi]

I find the whole thing distasteful, there is a NBTA demonstration outside CRT Milton Keynes on the 10th May - very likely it is building up steam for that.

[MtB]

I find the whole thing distasteful, there is a NBTA demonstration outside CRT Milton Keynes on the 10th May - very likely it is building up steam for that.

 

 

~~~~Bemused~~~~

 

 

What does the upcoming NBTA demo in MK have to do with any of the variety of subjects discussed so far in this thread?

[alan_fincher]

 

 

~~~~Bemused~~~~

 

 

What does the upcoming NBTA demo in MK have to do with any of the variety of subjects discussed so far in this thread?

 

Well the NBTA are clearly fairly intrinsically linked to the accusations against Matthew Symonds, (the subject of the thread), and NBTA are waging a fairly heavy publicity war against CRT in multiple places right now, so I can see where Stella is coming from.

 

I find it hard to know what to think about the original topic now, as we have two sides each claiming something different, and, with no intended disrespect to either, there seems to be little way of anybody not actually present at the time of the alleged comments knowing where the truth lies.

 

What is undeniable fact is that not everything NBTA says in pursuits of their campaigns for live aboard boaters is true, but I think for balance you could say that not everything CRT say is also true either!

[dogless]

I cannot comprehend an organisation who seriously claim to be victimised because they are travellers, at the same time that they claim to be victimised for not travelling enough, and in both instances by the same authority.

 

However I do hope that C&RT can apply their minds to find some compromise solutions. I suspect the problems of people wishing to live in the London and Bath areas are not going to go away simpley because we wish them to. Perhaps visitor zones and resident zones could be identified. I do believe C&RT hold all the trumps and have the opportunity to create an environment that could work for the majority.

 

Rog