Would you buy an overplated boat

[kcb]

I hope to be getting my first boat soon. Have looked at quite a few now so have a good idea of what I'm after.

 

There is a boat that looks just right from the advert but has been overplated. I haven't been to see it yet because the overplating is making me nervous. I have searched this forum and it looks like buying an overplated boat might be a gamble.

 

It seems that a good overplating job would be fine but a bad one could be a disaster waiting to happen. My question here is whether it is possible for a surveyor to tell the diference? Apart from outer appearance of the welds, would it be possible to discover if the inner plating was deteriorating further, or if there was water between the new plate and the original? Or would it really be a gamble?

 

Don't want to view the boat yet in case it is 'the one' because I'm not a gambling man. What do you think?

[Alan de Enfield]

No - Never. I would not buy an overplated boat, you, and the majority of surveyors will not know how well the job has been done.

 

I MAY buy a boat needing re-plating/overplating because I can control how the work is done & who does the job.

 

If you can afford to take the risk and potentially lose your money buy it - if you cannot, then walk away.

[Tonka]

Most certainly a yes if the price is right

[Paul C]

A decent surveyor should be able to tell if overplating has been done properly. Regarding water in the gap, it very much depends if the original hull was just thin (maybe paper thin) or was actually holed (maybe holed in the process of inspecting it or during the work doing the overplating). If it is, then its possible that water has gotten in between the plates from the inside but also its possible that any water in the bilges, would have run past and not affected it. I imagine unless really badly done, water won't get in from the outside.

[magpie patrick]

I hope to be getting my first boat soon. Have looked at quite a few now so have a good idea of what I'm after.

 

There is a boat that looks just right from the advert but has been overplated. I haven't been to see it yet because the overplating is making me nervous. I have searched this forum and it looks like buying an overplated boat might be a gamble.

 

It seems that a good overplating job would be fine but a bad one could be a disaster waiting to happen. My question here is whether it is possible for a surveyor to tell the diference? Apart from outer appearance of the welds, would it be possible to discover if the inner plating was deteriorating further, or if there was water between the new plate and the original? Or would it really be a gamble?

 

Don't want to view the boat yet in case it is 'the one' because I'm not a gambling man. What do you think?

 

You asked, "would you buy an overplated boat?" - not only would I, but I have...

 

The hull is fine, the overplating has been done well, probably more sound than some nearly new hulls

 

Wish I could have said the same for the gearbox! My warning would be don't let worries about the hull distract you from anything else that might be a problem!

[MtB]

Yes I would, provided it was cheap enough to sell on to a wet behind the ears newbie and turn a decent profit ...

[ditchcrawler]

So if you have very little knowlage of boats and buy one at the right price to get overplated you still don't know how good a job you have got.

[Bee]

So many variables. From the time a steel boat hits the water the maintanence starts, paint every few years, maybe quite pitted after, what, 15? looking in need of some plating after, 20? new bottom and some side plating shortly after? Then another 20 years till someone cuts the bottom out and it all starts again. I would buy it at any stage of its history if I liked it and the price allowed for the bulk of the work. The time scale is just a very rough example, most boats are better, a few worse. It's steel in water, it will rust.

[Captain Pegg]

So many variables. From the time a steel boat hits the water the maintanence starts, paint every few years, maybe quite pitted after, what, 15? looking in need of some plating after, 20? new bottom and some side plating shortly after? Then another 20 years till someone cuts the bottom out and it all starts again. I would buy it at any stage of its history if I liked it and the price allowed for the bulk of the work. The time scale is just a very rough example, most boats are better, a few worse. It's steel in water, it will rust.

Actually the first part of that fits my boat pretty well. It was built in 1968 with 1/4" thick steel plate and overplated in 1987 with 6mm plate. I know that the overplating was done by the original builder (and I mean person rather than yard). However nearly 30 years on the thickness and condition of the overplating remains good. Of course you can only know what is happening with the outer steel plates from ultrasonic test readings. It still has all of the original hull and I bought it thinking I may have to re-bottom it at some point thinking pretty much along the lines you are. That fitted fine with the fact I wanted to limit purchase price as the money was borrowed but do have funds to maintain the boat going forward. I am actually far less bothered about the hull now I have the boat and have some knowledge than I anticipated I would be when I decided to make an offer. It was £5-£10k cheaper than two other boats I had also considered.

 

JP

Edited April 16, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[system 4-50]

No.

[John V]

yes

[kcb]

Well the answers have gone very much both ways. Got to make a decision and the decision is to give this one a miss. Too risky for me at the moment. Can't afford to make a mistake. Thanks for the replies.

[tonyt40]

Well the answers have gone very much both ways. Got to make a decision and the decision is to give this one a miss. Too risky for me at the moment. Can't afford to make a mistake. Thanks for the replies.

I looked a boat a while ago. It was built in 2007. It sounded like it had been left on a shore line permanently with no galvanic isolator and a general lack of maintenance. The owner was getting it surveyed. The survey came back and the advice was to over plate it. The owner arranged the work. I got talking to somebody living in the marina where the work was being done (by external contractor). He had seen the whole process. On the face if it it looked a good job but what what I was told put me right off. I have now got a 12 year old boat that has flown through a survey and has been well maintained.

 

As previously stated if it's cheap and you arrange the work you have a level of confidence in the repairs but buying already done is an unknown. A future buyer would probably have the same reservation when you come to sell.

[John V]

The problem really is, that each time is a unique situation.

It all hinges on the price you pay and the confidence you have to be able to spot problems and cope with anything unforeseen.

Also, is this a boat you are going to keep for a long time or are you expecting to get your money back, in maybe a few years and trade up.

As has been said, it also mirrors the problems you will have if you wish to sell.

[Athy]

As a non-technical person, I'd ask the following questions:

- Does it float?

- Is the hull wet inside?

 

If you can answer Yes to the former and No to the latter, it sounds worth pursuing.

I bought an overplated Springer whose hull turned out to be perfectly watertight.

[Bee]

There aren't many (any?) historic boats going around that are original below the waterline. not just canal boats but all sorts of craft. Overplating really is just part of the maintainence work on a steel boat. In itself it is no big deal and should be pretty much expected after a couple or three decades. Problem is on a narrowboat that the internal fit out is so 'permanent' that you can't remove it without destroying half the boat. I think that to bung the ballast in and then floor over the whole bottom is really a bit of a half a**ed job and poor practice. Its a boat, sooner or later you will need to get at the bottom.

[John V]

^^^^^ very well put

[MtB]

Well the answers have gone very much both ways. Got to make a decision and the decision is to give this one a miss. Too risky for me at the moment. Can't afford to make a mistake. Thanks for the replies.

I think this is a good decision. You say you're not a gambling man and buying an overplated boat is exactly that. Gambling. You really can't tell if overplating been done perfectly EVERYWHERE by looking at it through the blacking. Only owning the boat for ten or twenty years will reveal.

 

Something else that happens is many boats get overplated unnecessarily. If a 6mm plate has pitted to 4mm in 25 years many surveyors would stay it needs overplating, when obviously doesn't by Athy's way of judging (I.e. wet outside and dry inside.) This means even if such a boat is overplated both unnecessarily and horrendously badly, you wouldn't know it.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[John V]

There is a lot in what you say Mike,

 

I agree there are boats that get overplated when it is not really needed but on the other hand there are boats that pass a survey (even if they have been ultrasonic tested) that have small dangerously thin bits just because it lies between two areas tested that were fine and could probably have done with overplating at that point.

 

The other place where Athy is right is about water outside dry in......it does not take even 3mm steel to keep it so You could build a perfectly useable boat out of 1mm plate (as long as it was framed adequately) the only real problem is that it would dent and buckle very easily if you hit something........but it probably wouldn't let water in.

 

I am not sure where this paranoia about thick steel needed for canal boats comes from.........you don't find it with salt water boats and they live in a much more aggressive environment

[Tonka]

Mild steel plate rusts at 7thou a year when untreated in salt water. That is before you add the electrolysis effect

[MtB]

There is a lot in what you say Mike,

 

I agree there are boats that get overplated when it is not really needed but on the other hand there are boats that pass a survey (even if they have been ultrasonic tested) that have small dangerously thin bits just because it lies between two areas tested that were fine and could probably have done with overplating at that point.

 

The other place where Athy is right is about water outside dry in......it does not take even 3mm steel to keep it so You could build a perfectly useable boat out of 1mm plate (as long as it was framed adequately) the only real problem is that it would dent and buckle very easily if you hit something........but it probably wouldn't let water in.

 

I am not sure where this paranoia about thick steel needed for canal boats comes from.........you don't find it with salt water boats and they live in a much more aggressive environment

It comes from the insurance companies! Anything less than 4mm and they decline fully comp insurance. Leads to the layman thinking thin steel is porous, or something.

[Claude]

No, I wouldn't buy an overplated boat, but I would buy a replated boat.

 

The reason canal boats are often overplated rather than replated is because it may be too difficult to cut out the old thinned plate. However, strictly speaking, the fact that a boat has been overplated rather than replated means the job wasn't really done properly in the first place.

 

I can't see the point of taking a chance on an overplated boat when there are so many others on the market without potential problems - unless the price reflects this perhaps.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Claude

[Claude]

I am not sure where this paranoia about thick steel needed for canal boats comes from.........you don't find it with salt water boats and they live in a much more aggressive environment

 

But canal beds and concrete banks can also be pretty aggressive when it comes to steel erosion. It's not just the type of water a boat sits in that determines loss of steel thickness. The hulls of salt water boats don't generally have to deal with quite the same sort of contact.

[John V]

 

The hulls of salt water boats don't generally have to deal with quite the same sort of contact.

 

Hmmmm !!............. you should try some of the places I've moored

[Claude]

 

Hmmmm !!............. you should try some of the places I've moored

 

You don't use fenders when you moor?

 

I can appreciate that going up and down on a mud or silt tidal berth twice a day could be pretty aggressive, which is precisely why I'd want a nice thick baseplate to deal with it.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Claude