Passing moored boats

[midnight cowboy]

Well, I did find my half hitch had come undone when I went out (though I don't know how, I did it the same as I always do) and the stern ropes were a bit slack. But I do pull the ropes as tight as I can when I tie up, with a couple of secure knots on the boat, and I'm fairly confident I do ok, since when I get up or return to the boat she's basically been still tied as I left her- no extra slack- this morning notwithstanding. It's a hard towpath with little mushroomy bollards. I'm not using the centre line to moor up here

 

I'm off to look for a thread on correct mooring angles now, though. I thought that as long as the ropes were not parallel to each other, you were ok (and now I'm nervously awaiting a flaming to put me right!!).

See here:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/24987-boaters-update-4-dec-2015.pdf

[Witchword]

See here:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/24987-boaters-update-4-dec-2015.pdf

Yes, I just read that from your previous link. It's made me think I'm doing it wrong, although my lines are never at right angles to the boat. What's a breast line?

[MtB]

Oh I see, you're just showing off - you mean your boat has a rev. counter as well? None of ours has had one. Or does something on your little electronic device count those for you too?

 

 

My Kelvin has a rev counter of which I think you'll approve.

 

A piece of paper and a pencil. You listen to the engine and put a tick on the paper each time time you hear a firing stroke...

[FadeToScarlet]

I haven't shouted at anyone, I vented on here instead But I'm getting more and more confused about how I should be tying up my boat. I was told by an experienced boater (10 years cc) that both stern and bow ropes should point in opposite directions, at an angle- eg either both tied up to a point along the side of the boat so they look like ><, or both tied to a point away from the boat so they're more like <> (just the top lines of the arrows, I only use two ropes). I get the lines as tight as I can and then fix them back on the boat. I understand there'll be some movement; that's fine. But reading all these links makes me think I'm doing something wrong. Am I?

No, you're doing it right. But you could do it better by attaching springs. Put a pin in near the middle of the boat, and tie a line from that onto the stern, and see how much less the boat will move.

[MtB]

Actually was just teasing Athy really. My Kelvin does have a rev counter though!

 

It's a magnet on the flywheel operating a suitably calibrated bicycle speedometer.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[Athy]

 

 

My Kelvin has a rev counter of which I think you'll approve.

 

A piece of paper and a pencil. You listen to the engine and put a tick on the paper each time time you hear a firing stroke...

Splendid! Alternately I suppose you could tick the paper each time you pass a lamp post.

[KroSha]

You should never use a centre line as part of your mooring up arrangements - it should only be used for short term control of the boat - e.g. at locks etc. NickF states one reason.

 

Nothing wrong with using a very slack centre line as insurance. We sometimes have ours in if the bank is soft. It has at least a foot of slack, so there's no danger of rising water levels pulling it tight.

[Witchword]

No, you're doing it right. But you could do it better by attaching springs. Put a pin in near the middle of the boat, and tie a line from that onto the stern, and see how much less the boat will move.

Thanks, I will try that.

[furnessvale]

I haven't shouted at anyone, I vented on here instead But I'm getting more and more confused about how I should be tying up my boat. I was told by an experienced boater (10 years cc) that both stern and bow ropes should point in opposite directions, at an angle- eg either both tied up to a point along the side of the boat so they look like ><, or both tied to a point away from the boat so they're more like <> (just the top lines of the arrows, I only use two ropes). I get the lines as tight as I can and then fix them back on the boat. I understand there'll be some movement; that's fine. But reading all these links makes me think I'm doing something wrong. Am I?

>< is very inferior and will normally allow too much movement.

 

<> is much better.

 

On my permanent mooring I have LONG lines out fore and aft to substantial trees. These are 40-50ft long and nearly parallel to the bank, although one does pass through a boat next to me if you get my drift! These halt fore and aft movement, even if they develop reasonable slack. A pair of short lines from the bow and stern dollies and T stud to nearby substantial pins stop the boat from drifting out.

 

When out and about, I very rarely use pins, always using chains to the piling or rings. I have never left a boat unattended on pins for more than a couple of hours and I could never leave a boat for days on pins.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Edited April 8, 2016 by furnessvale

[MtB]

I haven't shouted at anyone, I vented on here instead But I'm getting more and more confused about how I should be tying up my boat. I was told by an experienced boater (10 years cc) that both stern and bow ropes should point in opposite directions, at an angle- eg either both tied up to a point along the side of the boat so they look like ><, or both tied to a point away from the boat so they're more like <> (just the top lines of the arrows, I only use two ropes). I get the lines as tight as I can and then fix them back on the boat. I understand there'll be some movement; that's fine. But reading all these links makes me think I'm doing something wrong. Am I?

 

 

I think you are doing it generally right. The thing is, there are two effects you need to be aware of as a boat passes you.

 

1) The effect that pulls mooring stakes out, called the 'surge'. As a boat approaches, a moored boat is first pushed forwards, in the same direction as the approaching boat, then as the boat draws level and passes, the force on the moored boat reverses making it surge backwards, then after the boat has passed, another smaller force gets applied to the moored boat moving it forwards again. Then it all settles down and peace returns. The mooring lines have to oppose these forces and hold the boat roughly stationary.

 

BUT... as you have found out, it is virtually impossible to moor so tightly that no movement happens, and the boat still gets knocked about a bit against the piling. To remedy this I use a second mooring line at the stern going forwards to make a triangle with the stern line going backwards. These two lines in the triangle shape are far more effective at preventing the boat surging back and forth than one line at each end of the boat, as a line at each end forms a parallelogram rather than a triangle, and the parallelogram shape is less stable than a triangle. Once I have a pair of stern lines in the triangle shape stopping the boat surging back and forth, a loose bow line at right angles to the boat is all that is needed to keep the bow in to the bank.

 

2) As a boat passes yours, the canal water level actually drops by two or three inches while the other boat is level with yours. This makes your boat drop vertically two or three inches as a boat passes and gives you that weird feeling of losing your balance, and is nothing to do with the forwards/backwards surge. There is NOTHING you can do to stop the boat moving vertically as a boat passes no matter how well you tie up so you'll either have to get accustomed to it, or take a mooring in a marina where neither problem exists.

 

Hope that helps...

 

 

P.S. This vertical movement as a boat passes is the reason tying a centreline tight from the roof down to the bank can make the boat roll excessively, and is bad practice.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[spadefoot]

 

Nothing wrong with using a very slack centre line as insurance. We sometimes have ours in if the bank is soft. It has at least a foot of slack, so there's no danger of rising water levels pulling it tight.

Yes but what is it insurance against. What does it do that a properly set out 3rd line spring from the bow or stern doesn't?

Mike's answer above is the best on here, I followed his advice a couple of years ago when this subject came up and it works very well.

[Dharl]

But surely what you have just described IS a spring.

 

 

not really....a Spring is a LONG line from aft to about amidships on a shallow angle and same from forwards. Using shorter lines with a tighter angle is 'technically' the same as repeating the head or stern line made fast from a different location...however can simplify and call it a spring as we don't need to use too many technical terms.....

[Dharl]

 

 

I think you are doing it generally right. The thing is, there are two effects you need to be aware of as a boat passes you.

 

1) The effect that pulls mooring stakes out, called the 'surge'. As a boat approaches, a moored boat is first pushed forwards, in the same direction as the approaching boat, then as the boat draws level and passes, the force on the moored boat reverses making it surge backwards, then after the boat has passed, another smaller force gets applied to the moored boat moving it forwards again. Then it all settles down and peace returns. The mooring lines have to oppose these forces and hold the boat roughly stationary.

 

BUT... as you have found out, it is virtually impossible to moor so tightly that no movement happens, and the boat still gets knocked about a bit against the piling. To remedy this I use a second mooring line at the stern going forwards to make a triangle with the stern line going backwards. These two lines in the triangle shape are far more effective at preventing the boat surging back and forth than one line at each end of the boat, as a line at each end forms a parallelogram rather than a triangle, and the parallelogram shape is less stable than a triangle. Once I have a pair of stern lines in the triangle shape stopping the boat surging back and forth, a loose bow line at right angles to the boat is all that is needed to keep the bow in to the bank.

 

2) As a boat passes yours, the canal water level actually drops by two or three inches while the other boat is level with yours. This makes your boat drop vertically two or three inches as a boat passes and gives you that weird feeling of losing your balance, and is nothing to do with the forwards/backwards surge. There is NOTHING you can do to stop the boat moving vertically as a boat passes no matter how well you tie up so you'll either have to get accustomed to it, or take a mooring in a marina where neither problem exists.

 

Hope that helps...

 

 

P.S. This vertical movement as a boat passes is the reason tying a centreline tight from the roof down to the bank can make the boat roll excessively, and is bad practice.

 

 

very similar to how I secure Honeystreet (think you described it a bit better than my earlier rambles!), however I have 'the triangle' from the bow rather than the stern. In shallow canals the stern will lye further off due to the draft of Honeystreet and also stops me tripping over one of the stern lines...(instead I tend to trip over the forward one when letting the dog out of the cratch first thing in the morning!)

[Mike Todd]

But what about the dimensions of the cut?

Our boat can hit 9 knots or more on a wide deep river, but no more than the statutory 4mph, often 3 or less, flat out on a shallow/narrow cut. I won't get all geeky and technical about fluid dynamics - but just look at your prop pulling the water fast past your hull when you are going too fast on a shallow silted up cut and you'll understand why there's no point trying to open up the engine in such circumstances.

 

I drive an old Town class with a Lister air cooled - which is noisy on tickover so the moored moaners think I am going fast when I am not.

 

The earlier contributor who pointed out that it is speed through the water and not engine speed that affects the bank/moored boats etc. Our boat is so heavy she is like a tanker - takes 100 metres to slow right down from cruising speed. As I say to our trainee skippers - ANTICIPATE, ANTICIPATE!!

Just so and also need to train new steerers that in shallow water, increasing engine speed can lead to a reduction in speed over the ground. (For those few who don't know: the increased prop power pulls more water from under the boat, the stern drops and the ground effect slows down progress, as well as increasing the probability of hitting the detritus lying at the bottom)

[Mike Todd]

In my experience there is no single way of mooring that works in all circumstances - unless one confines one's cruising to mooring only i places with identical provision.

 

The location and spacing of mooring rings, bollards, even the gaps for piling chains, all mean that each mooring has to be judged on its merits. The ability to hammer in pins will also vary, especially in some locations where there are great lumps of stone buried just below the surface and you have to take whatever position you can get. (I just hate having to pull out the first pin just to accommodate the second!)

 

The nature of the canal edge is also a factor - is there a shelf, a firm edge, a lot of weed? Are you having to moor in the only space available between other boats, between obstacles, the only place where the weed allows you to get close enough even to deploy a plank?

 

Anyone who says 'I always do it this way' has clearly never cruised outside the shiny boat range! (Try being fussy on the Chesterfield, or even the Shroppie which has more good VM's than any other)

[Robbo]

Yes, I just read that from your previous link. It's made me think I'm doing it wrong, although my lines are never at right angles to the boat. What's a breast line?

 

 

You may find this link helpful on what each line is doing and why... http://www.moorcontrol.com.au/Berth%20Set%20Up.php

 

It's quite simple tho.

You have lines to keep the boat in. (bow and stern)

And lines to stop the boat moving back and forwards (spring)

 

The spring lines don't need to run the length of the boat as this can be quite hard on a narrowboat, they just need to need to run in the same direction as the boat.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Robbo

[Scholar Gypsy]

Nice photo of a speeding boat here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154020380578563&set=gm.1004796446271284&type=3&theater

[Graham Davis]

Nice photo of a speeding boat here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154020380578563&set=gm.1004796446271284&type=3&theater

 

No breaking wake though.

In fact not even a ripple!

[fittie]

Frankly, who cares? I've always slowed past moored boats, but prefer to judge speed on a incidental basis, not interested in data provided by technology. It has its place, I'll grant, but not when I'm out boating other than to save chalking messages on bridge holes advising passing times for folk wanting to connect with a boat. This may be incomprehensible drivel for newer boaters, old farts will understand......

 

Dave

Oh, happy days!

[Witchword]

Great post Mike, very explanatory, thank you

[MtB]

Great post Mike, very explanatory, thank you

 

 

Yer welcome!

 

I notice your attempt to give it a greenie seems not to have worked, ;)

[ditchcrawler]

If you feel this is true, why don't you tell the owner of our last mooring? He insisted that all the boats moored at his farm used front, centre and back ropes. He is an experienced boater, has a pair of working boats, so I wasn't going to argue.

The same one who pulled away after I had passed the butty but not the motor

[Dharl]

 

 

Yer welcome!

 

I notice your attempt to give it a greenie seems not to have worked,

 

I tried to give a greenie, but have run out of them!!!

[MtB]

 

I tried to give a greenie, but have run out of them!!!

 

 

Story of my life. Finally write a post that everyone seems to like and no-one has any greenies left!!

I guess I'll learn to cope with the disappointment. Eventually!

(Fanx for the thought though )

[NickAndAnne]

 

 

Story of my life. Finally write a post that everyone seems to like and no-one has any greenies left!!

I guess I'll learn to cope with the disappointment. Eventually!

(Fanx for the thought though )

 

 

Well, I will give you a greenie! Great explanation, thank you!