Alde boiler hot water and heating.

[rustydiver]

It's got me thinking about my heating and hot water system.

Do i need to run the heating system to heat the calourfier. Now it's getting warmer and not needing the radiators so much.

At the moment the thermostat kicks in in the bedroom and you hear the circulating pump on the boiler running, the radiators heat up along with the hot water.

Now does the circulation pump need to run for the calourfier to heat up, if so do I set the stat to high to make the pump run and turn the rads down.

Would there be an isolation valve to isolate the rads?

 

It's a Comfort 2928. With just a controll knob on the main panel.

Edited March 21, 2016 by rustydiver

[nicknorman]

Yes there would normally be an isolation valve to isolate the radiator circuit whilst leaving the calorifier circuit working. It would normally be near the boiler, however since each boat is different it is impossible to say. As a short term measure until you find the main valve, you can turn off each radiator individually at the radiator

Edited March 21, 2016 by nicknorman

[Nightwatch]

I can only say what we do.

 

When we don't want the rads on we do everything the same but we have an isolation valve (inline tap). We turn up the stat and set the boiler water temperature to what we want the tap water temp to be. We find if the circulation pump is not running the boiler steams up dramatically.

 

Hope this helps a little.

 

Edit. I was beaten to it. Our isolation valve is right at the back of a kitchen cupboard. I keep meaning to move it, but after over ten years I don't think I'll rush into anything.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Nightwatch

[rustydiver]

Thanks. Just as I thought.

There are no valves by the boiler but under the bed where the calourfier is there are some taps and lad off pipes, i need to get in there to have a good look, I have tried the rad taps out to isolate each rad and they work.

 

Thinking about t there might be a tap/ valve under the back step which goeS to the rads. That's this weekend job to have a look over.

Edited March 21, 2016 by rustydiver

[nicknorman]

What I've encountered in the few boats I'm familiar with is that at the outlet from the boiler there is a T junction, one arm to the calorifier and one to the radiators, and shortly after the T there is a gate valve or similar for each of the 2 circuits. But of course there is no guarantee just how far away from the T the valves are likely to be.

[dor]

What I've encountered in the few boats I'm familiar with is that at the outlet from the boiler there is a T junction, one arm to the calorifier and one to the radiators, and shortly after the T there is a gate valve or similar for each of the 2 circuits. But of course there is no guarantee just how far away from the T the valves are likely to be.

Broadly similar to my setup. Two fairly accessible 22mm full flow lever valves, one in each circuit.

 

If you want an idea of how much hot water you have got, get a cheap (~£10) indoor/outdoor thermometer from Maplins or the like. Now carefully remove a small piece of the foam insulation about half way up (be careful not to score the cylinder), put the outdoor sensor against the cylinder and tape the insulation back in the hole.

 

A bit off trial and error will determine what temperature is shown to have the hot water you need, thus saving you from running it too long. In our case, 38 degrees (it will be hotter a the top) is enough for two quickish showers.

[Dave Payne]

It's got me thinking about my heating and hot water system.

Do i need to run the heating system to heat the calourfier. Now it's getting warmer and not needing the radiators so much.

At the moment the thermostat kicks in in the bedroom and you hear the circulating pump on the boiler running, the radiators heat up along with the hot water.

Now does the circulation pump need to run for the calourfier to heat up, if so do I set the stat to high to make the pump run and turn the rads down.

Would there be an isolation valve to isolate the rads?

 

It's a Comfort 2928. With just a controll knob on the main panel.

 

 

I have the same boiler, when the thermostat kicks in the pump in the white bottle on the top of the boiler kicks in and circulates hot water round the rads, no hot water goes to the tank.

 

I have a switch on the wall, this is linked to a small pump that circulates hot water from the boiler round the coil in the tank.

 

Nice and easy system that does not require the boiler to pump water round the rads whilst heating the tank.

 

Two black hoses come from the back of the boiler, one goes through the separate pump, one is the output on the tank.

[smileypete]

Thanks. Just as I thought.

There are no valves by the boiler but under the bed where the calourfier is there are some taps and lad off pipes, i need to get in there to have a good look, I have tried the rad taps out to isolate each rad and they work.

 

Thinking about t there might be a tap/ valve under the back step which goeS to the rads. That's this weekend job to have a look over.

 

How about just switching off all the rads, does the Alde still heat the water OK then?

[rustydiver]

You can turn the valves off on the rads but it still means its pumping the hot water for them around the boat and back, I reckon an extra 120ft off pipe. Where if there is a isolatin valve just past the calourfier it save all that making the water quicker to heat.

 

After seeing the next weeks forecast I don't think I'll be trying to isolate them yet.

[Dave Payne]

Is your boiler next to the calourfier, like very close?

[rustydiver]

No. I would guess the boiler and calourfier is about 25ft apart. Boiler between the galley and bathroom, calourfier under the bed at the back off the boat.

[Dave Payne]

ahh ok, was going to suggest fitting another pump like mine, its a very easy system as you just flick a switch for hot water.

[Tony Brooks]

 

 

I have the same boiler, when the thermostat kicks in the pump in the white bottle on the top of the boiler kicks in and circulates hot water round the rads, no hot water goes to the tank.

 

I have a switch on the wall, this is linked to a small pump that circulates hot water from the boiler round the coil in the tank.

 

Nice and easy system that does not require the boiler to pump water round the rads whilst heating the tank.

 

Two black hoses come from the back of the boiler, one goes through the separate pump, one is the output on the tank.

 

Whilst I would not suggest your system does not work a s described I do not see how it can. The Alde pump is is the boiler and on the outlet side so it is both pushing and pulling water around the system. Your calorifier must be Teed off the radiator circuit so i do not see how the Alde pump can not fail to move some hot water around the calorifier. My Alde fed rads are plumbed in 22mm main pipe run and the calorifier in 15mm Teed off the main circuit and it has always circulated water through both.

 

 

A couple of years ago I added a lever valve in the 22mm just after the take off for the calorifier so I can isolate the rads as proposed by the OP. However as mentioned by someone else this requires the room stat to be turned up above ambient temperature in the summer when I just want to get hot water. I have just fitted a boiler stat and a double pole three position centre off switch and wired it to:

 

A. Turn the Alde electrical supply on and off so one does not have to rely upon that flimsy slide switch on the room stat.

 

B. Select which stat (room or cylinder) is controlling the Alde pump.

 

So far so good but I have to leave the idiot slide switch turned on. This will be rectified when I get time to mod. the room stat.

 

By using a 3 x 6 terminal bus bar set I have reduced the connections to the Alde to just three.

 

Diagram can be sent if requested.

 

 

 

[Rickent]

We have an isolation valve at the bottom of the boiler, its kept closed unless we want the radiators on. We have the circulation pump running and thermostat turned up full when heating up the couliflower.

[David Mack]

You can turn the valves off on the rads but it still means its pumping the hot water for them around the boat and back, I reckon an extra 120ft off pipe.

With a conventional heating circuit one pipe feeds all the radiator inlets and the other connects all the radiator outlets back to the boiler. So if all the radiator valves are turned completely off there is nowhere for the water to circulate. The calorifier will be T'd off on a separate circuit, so all the hot water will go that way.

[Dave_P]

If I have an isolation valve, I've never found it. I just turn down the rads. It's not exactly hard.

[Dave Payne]

 

Whilst I would not suggest your system does not work a s described I do not see how it can. The Alde pump is is the boiler and on the outlet side so it is both pushing and pulling water around the system. Your calorifier must be Teed off the radiator circuit so i do not see how the Alde pump can not fail to move some hot water around the calorifier. My Alde fed rads are plumbed in 22mm main pipe run and the calorifier in 15mm Teed off the main circuit and it has always circulated water through both.

 

 

A couple of years ago I added a lever valve in the 22mm just after the take off for the calorifier so I can isolate the rads as proposed by the OP. However as mentioned by someone else this requires the room stat to be turned up above ambient temperature in the summer when I just want to get hot water. I have just fitted a boiler stat and a double pole three position centre off switch and wired it to:

 

A. Turn the Alde electrical supply on and off so one does not have to rely upon that flimsy slide switch on the room stat.

 

B. Select which stat (room or cylinder) is controlling the Alde pump.

 

So far so good but I have to leave the idiot slide switch turned on. This will be rectified when I get time to mod. the room stat.

 

By using a 3 x 6 terminal bus bar set I have reduced the connections to the Alde to just three.

 

Diagram can be sent if requested.

 

 

 

 

 

Thats the thing, it can and it does work....

 

The system is as follows,

 

Boiler has two black hoses coming from the rear, i cant actually see where these go so they may connect via a tee to the heating pipes, one runs to the calorifier through a small 12v pump that has a switch in the wall, the other goes from the calorifier back to the rear of the boiler.

 

I have a Danfoss TP5000SI fitted up the other end of the boat, took the crappy black old style thermostat out, the one with the sliding switch.

 

With the boiler lit but the heating not activated, the Danfoss temp below room temp, i turn on the small 12v pump, this then circulates hot water from the boiler round the calorifier and back to the boiler, at this point the pump in top of the boiler in the white water tank doesnt always run, this only kicks in every now and then.... No hot water runs through the rads, i know this as i have checked.

 

When the heating is running but the 12v pump is not pumping water through the calorifier the water does not heat up, again i have checked this.

 

I guess the 12v pump when not running is a stop point for water running into the calorifier when the heating is running.

 

I plan to fit a new 2 channel programer to control the hot water coming on also at set times, like the heating.

 

Its a great system, and i would suggest fitting the same over any stop tap or turning the rads off.

[Tony Brooks]

I wonder if your extra pump has a spring loaded stop valve in it so the Alde pump can not open it (possibly because there is a free flow through the rads) but the extra pump with no alternative water path does open the valve. Just a thought.

 

My next step is to fit a programmable thermostat in place of the room stat so it automatically turns the heating up before we get up, then down a bit for the day, up or the evening and down to about 10 degrees or so for the night.

[Dave Payne]

Could be, its one of these type, cant remember which model though.

 

http://www.spxflow.com/en/johnson-pump-marine/pd-mp-marine-circulation-pumps-cm10-cm30-cm90/

 

I fitted the Danfoss on the recommendation of the fella who serviced the boiler, it works really well, brings the heating on at 6am till 8am then i have it set to off all day then comes on at 4pm till 10pm where it loweres down to 10c to keep the chill off in the night.

 

I will fit the two channel version and remove the switch from the 12v hot water pump, then i can set the hot water to come on in the morning and in the evening.

 

Ill try and get a photo of the rear of the boiler to see where these pipes come from if i can get my phone round there....

Edited March 23, 2016 by Dave Payne

[Tony Brooks]

Almost certainly no such valve then unless someone has fitted one in a pipe.