Great canal journeys on now ch 4 from Sweden

[keble]

He always comes across as pompous and patronising to Pru IMO. The gender role thing they play out seems totally anachronistic to me, although I see it a lot on the canals, sadly: he drives, she 'helps'; he offers his wisdom, she listens, attentively; he orders her around, then shouts at her when she gets something wrong. It's not something I can relate to at all.

They both look increasingly frail.

Agree totally about Tim appearing pompous and patronising. Can't stand it....

[Tam & Di]

He always comes across as pompous and patronising to Pru IMO. The gender role thing they play out seems totally anachronistic to me, although I see it a lot on the canals, sadly: he drives, she 'helps'; he offers his wisdom, she listens, attentively; he orders her around, then shouts at her when she gets something wrong. It's not something I can relate to at all.

 

I agree entirely - he comes over as rather a martinet, thrusting a line at her and snapping at her to take it when there is no way she can reach across the gap between boat and bank was a good example. It is also sad that they have been boating for so long but learned so little of the skills involved that would make their life so much easier (hers, anyway). And how he can expect Pru to get off the boat to tie up all the time when she is now rather unsteady on her feet, or demand she looses the lines fore and aft while he sits in regal splendour in his captain's chair and does not even look to check what she is doing.

 

On the other hand they do obviously enjoy what they are doing, and Pru sems to accept it all quite stoically, so who am I to suggest they act in any other way.

 

Tam

[bizzard]

I agree too, no doubt he's a chauvinistic pompous big head. I doubt if he's ever accepted any advice on boating or boat handling, he just blunders along in his own sweet way.

When the K&A first reopened (during the 1990's I think) there was a 3 episode program on telly about them being the first boat to travel from Honey st to Reading. Tim was even more bombastic then, but Sue did stand up to him quite often and answer back and argue a point with him. But he still stubbornly refused to relinquish the helm to anyone and Sue was still doing the locks with BW's help.

Edited March 20, 2016 by bizzard

[churchward]

He always comes across as pompous and patronising to Pru IMO. The gender role thing they play out seems totally anachronistic to me, although I see it a lot on the canals, sadly: he drives, she 'helps'; he offers his wisdom, she listens, attentively; he orders her around, then shouts at her when she gets something wrong. It's not something I can relate to at all.

 

 

They both look increasingly frail.

 

I understand your comment but you it is also best to try and see it from their point of view. They are old in their mid 80s and so come from a different generation. Also Pru does suffer from memory and concentration issues so at times being instructional and directive may be the best way to get things moving along. They have had a long and successful marriage and from what we see they do love each other so perhaps we should not be so quick to judge.

 

Mt wife and I are usually the only ones on our boat and she steadfastly refuses after many years to steer the boat so what is to be done when we get to a lock? we have a system but for some of it at least I will be on the boat. I for instance take car of the gates at the rear of the boat when going down hill and if in a long flight deal with the lock myself while she goes ahead and sets the next lock if possible. That doesn't stop someone occasionally coming to the same snap judgement that I am the "chauvinistic sod on the boat letting the woman do all the work".

 

Anyhow I enjoyed the program and will watch the next episode. They are an entertaining and for me an endearing Pair and as I don't know much about the Swedish inland waterways it was something new to me.

[bizzard]

I'm sure a great many women would really like to steer the boat much more than they ever do, even occasionally but most women can be very clever and convincing when it comes to hiding their true fancies. Many women I'm sure practice this art of deception unbeknowingly to their spouse and let him be the captain and do the steering all the time to keep the peace and or for fear of having orders and commands constantly bawled and rapped out to them if they're allowed to have a go. Steering the boat is many men's last stand after loosing out on the job when many more women learned to drive the car and rightly insisted on doing so whenever they wished.

[Ange]

I'm sure a great many women would really like to steer the boat much more than they ever do, even occasionally but most women can be very clever and convincing when it comes to hiding their true fancies. Many women I'm sure practice this art of deception unbeknowingly to their spouse and let him be the captain and do the steering all the time to keep the peace and or for fear of having orders and commands constantly bawled and rapped out to them if they're allowed to have a go. Steering the boat is many men's last stand after loosing out on the job when many more women learned to drive the car and rightly insisted on doing so whenever they wished.

Careful with the stereotypes mr Bizz! I have never been happy steering the boat and hubby has always envied me partaking in the social lockside scene. After single handing the boat while I was working things changed - once the boat is in the lock Dave's up the ladder and sharing the work. In a flight I just walk ahead and set locks - he's doing far more of the work than me. It's tough for both of us responding to "he's getting you to do all the work" just because I'm walking along the towpath windlass in hand.

 

Just like Tim & Pru as a coup!e we figure out what works for us.

[bizzard]

Careful with the stereotypes mr Bizz! I have never been happy steering the boat and hubby has always envied me partaking in the social lockside scene. After single handing the boat while I was working things changed - once the boat is in the lock Dave's up the ladder and sharing the work. In a flight I just walk ahead and set locks - he's doing all the great of the work. It's tough for both of us responding to "he's getting you to do all the work" just because I'm walking along the towpath windlass in hand.

That's really lovely Ange and in many cases that is so, but in my observations at locks and at our lock in particular many cases are as I describe, I can tell by certain body language, facial expressions, shaking of heads, stubborness, eyes flashing with stifled anger, pursed lips, and seems to be more rife the posher and shinier the boat is. I tend to make a bit of a study of peoples behaviors with boats at locks, I find it quite interesting.

Edited March 21, 2016 by bizzard

[Dave_P]

Of course we shouldn't generalise too much and everyone's different but I've head many times the tale, "oh she doesn't like steering the boat so I have to do it all". At least sometimes that's got to be because, in the past, he's made it awful for her when she steers, nitpicking, undermining, criticising. When it's been going on for decades, I doubt she's even fully aware of it any more. So they both entrench themselves further and further into their gender roles. That's what I see when I watch Pru & Tim. Age might be a factor, Pru's condition might be a factor. nonetheless, it makes me a little sad.

[Guest]

Let's not forget that these two are both excellent actors and I do wonder sometimes how much of their interaction is staged for the cameras/program makers.

[john6767]

Let's not forget that these two are both excellent actors and I do wonder sometimes how much of their interaction is staged for the cameras/program makers.

I am sure there is a certain amount of that going on, they are making a TV program at the end of the day.

[Dave_P]

Let's not forget that these two are both excellent actors and I do wonder sometimes how much of their interaction is staged for the cameras/program makers.

Why would someone want people to think they're pompous and condescending?

[Guest]

Why would someone want people to think they're pompous and condescending?

Because it's a mid evening light entertainment program perhaps?

[alan_fincher]

A few years back we found ourselves boating down the Oxford canal as the boat immediately behind Tim and Pru. The locks were against them, so we inevitably helped them prepare each lock and make their passage before we did it again for ourselves.

 

We found them absolutely charming, and clearly having much love of each other, as well as their beloved canals.

 

Even then Pru struggled with some paddles and gates, (although it did include Sommerton), and Tim got himself in the offside bushes at one stage, but our reaction was not "they are too old for all this" - more "I hope I can still be boating at their age".

 

Incidentally, their ages exactly matched those of Cath's parents, both of whom have subsequently died.

[Tam & Di]

 

I understand your comment but you it is also best to try and see it from their point of view. They are old in their mid 80s and so come from a different generation.

 

They're only a couple of years older than me, so there's not much of a generation gap as far as I'm concerned and I really don't think that is a factor. It's just how the dynamics work between them. In our case Di seldom steers as she does not like standing at the wheel for hours on end, though she obviously did 12+ hour days on the butty elum when we worked pairs in the UK. I just think that if he is going to take the role of captain he needs to keep his eye on his crew and what she is doing a lot more. However as I noted in my post Pru seems more than happy with her lot, even to say that on her own she would never go anywhere, and they appear perfectly happy as a couple.

 

The locks looked difficult to work with a small boat - any bollards seem to be a long way back from the edge, and to have to feed a line through a ring is a recipe for disaster as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps I've got too used to continental locks where you can work safely from the boat at all times.

 

Tam

[Tam & Di]

Of course we shouldn't generalise too much and everyone's different but I've head many times the tale, "oh she doesn't like steering the boat so I have to do it all". At least sometimes that's got to be because, in the past, he's made it awful for her when she steers, nitpicking, undermining, criticising. When it's been going on for decades, I doubt she's even fully aware of it any more. So they both entrench themselves further and further into their gender roles. That's what I see when I watch Pru & Tim. Age might be a factor, Pru's condition might be a factor. nonetheless, it makes me a little sad.

 

The most extreme case I encountered as a barge handling instructor was where when it was time for the guy to hand over to his wife he said to her "There you go dear. Don't forget the barge weighs 80 tons and is worth £250,000". I kicked him out of the wheelhouse (almost literally), and refused to let him back in. In fact she turned out to be a natural, and rapidly gained in confidence and become quite competent. I assume that was how they went on in their "real life", and did wonder what would happen now she knew she was actually quite a capable person.

 

Tam

[mrsmelly]

He always comes across as pompous and patronising to Pru IMO. The gender role thing they play out seems totally anachronistic to me, although I see it a lot on the canals, sadly: he drives, she 'helps'; he offers his wisdom, she listens, attentively; he orders her around, then shouts at her when she gets something wrong. It's not something I can relate to at all.

 

 

They both look increasingly frail.

 

The gender thing is true to life for some people, in fact lots of people. My Mum still alive and kicking aged 95 will tell you ( and she knows at 95 ) that the worst thing ever were the ( Silly women ) who wanted their so called equality as it was great being treated differently and " nicely " by men. I think she realises that women have babies and are therefore in many ways different to men, she is however no pushover and can put blokes in their place when needed. My missus too likes the difference between genders, again she is no pushover, not at all but she always does the locks and I always drive, it always has been and thats the way she wants it ( remember women are in charge ) So to sum up I think they r a fab couple who do maintain the gender difference and I also think its a tv programme so very far removed from real life in many ways and it makes good tv how they are portrayed.

 

Tim

[Nightwatch]

My thoughts are, for what they are worth, are that they had more than a film crew onboard. Tim was often in shot looking straight ahead with 100% concentration, as he had been placed there for the camera. Could he really have navigated across those lakes unassisted.

 

I love the programme. And the relationship between the two. Long may it last.

[haggis]

Careful with the stereotypes mr Bizz! I have never been happy steering the boat and hubby has always envied me partaking in the social lockside scene. After single handing the boat while I was working things changed - once the boat is in the lock Dave's up the ladder and sharing the work. In a flight I just walk ahead and set locks - he's doing far more of the work than me. It's tough for both of us responding to "he's getting you to do all the work" just because I'm walking along the towpath windlass in hand.

 

Just like Tim & Pru as a coup!e we figure out what works for us.

That what we do too, Ange and it does annoy me a wee bit when I get comments about Iain making me do all the work. I reckon on average, he does more paddles and gates than me and he drives the boat. Especially now that I am wary of walking across lock gates after having a full body immersion on the Wolverhampton 21 a couple of years ago. I think most couple work out the best way for them of doing locks.

 

Haggis

[blackrose]

As I mentioned in another thread as well on our website, they have to have them dangling into the water because they are just birch branches that would become brittle if they were allowed to dry out.

 

Interesting, but whatever the reason you've got a professional skipper on a historic boat who leave their fenders down when cruising. If it's such bad practice as many on this forum would have us believe, then one wonders why Juno uses birch branches which need to be left dangling in the water? Perhaps the truth is that cruising with fenders down is not really such bad practice...

Edited March 21, 2016 by blackrose

[cuthound]

 

Interesting, but whatever the reason you've got a professional skipper on a historic boat who leave their fenders down when cruising. If it's such bad practice as many on this forum would have us believe, then one wonders why Juno uses birch branches which need to be left dangling in the water? Perhaps the truth is that cruising with fenders down is not really such bad practice...

The main risk of leaving fenders down is on narrowboats in narrow locks, and then only when the lock side has moved in, the boat has spread, or there is a protrusion. Most of which are peculiar to the English canal system.

 

Edited to include some words in my response, after pressing post to early.

Edited March 21, 2016 by cuthound

[Dave_P]

I've met many couples where the man always drives and the woman always does the locks, because she "doesn't like driving". Never yet met a couple who do it the other way round. Funny that.

 

Although, it's how he speaks to her which bothers me most.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Dave_P

[Guest]

Dave_P, on 21 Mar 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

I've met many couples where the man always drives and the woman always does the locks, because she "doesn't like driving". Never yet met a couple who do it the other way round. Funny that.

 

Then you should have met us. Jan always drove the boat into and out of the locks and through lift and swing bridges and I always operated them.

 

For reasons I've mentioned before it was just the way that best suited us, the same as the opposite or a combined way best suits others.

[Dave_P]

 

Then you should have met us. Jan always drove the boat into and out of the locks and through lift and swing bridges and I always operated them.

 

For reasons I've mentioned before it was just the way that best suited us, the same as the opposite or a combined way best suits others.

You'd have to concede that's unusual. What was your reason?

[lydfordcastle]

Tim was often in shot looking straight ahead with 100% concentration, as he had been placed there for the camera.

 

 

That's exactly how he drives his boat up and down the Oxford. I've crossed bows with him on a few occasions and whilst you'll get smiles and an excited wave from Pru, all you get from Tim is dogged and deliberate lack of eye contact. Then, when he hits you, he can honestly claim not to have seen you.

[Guest]

Dave_P, on 21 Mar 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:Dave_P, on 21 Mar 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

You'd have to concede that's unusual. What was your reason?

 

I've mentioned it before.

 

Jan wasn't confident walking across the lock gates plus a long standing problem with her knees meant she couldn't get the 'purchase' required pull/push the beams sufficiently to get the gates moving and open/closed. We discovered this on the first hire boat holiday we didn't have crew with us.

 

It was one of the things we were glad to have hired before buying for. We knew that would be the way we did things when we bought our own boat.

 

And yes it was unusual - invariably the other boaters operating the locks with me were female if it was a couple or kids/teenagers if it was a family.

Edited March 21, 2016 by MJG