Leece Neville alternator and Trojan T105 batteries

[swift1894]

Is there any way to adjust the alternator to give out the 14.8 volts that Trojan recommend for bulk charging? At the moment it gives out 14volts.

[Robbo]

How are you measuring the voltage, and where? Measure it at the alternator. Most alternators are wired up for basic charging with a undersized cable going to the starter motor so just asking for voltage drop. Improving this by running a cable directly from the alternator to the main batteries isolation switch (BSS safe!) or main batteries with fuse (BSS fail).

 

 

 

This link may be handy... http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/controllers.html

Edited March 18, 2016 by Robbo

[nicknorman]

Sorry, I can't answer the question but you are right to be concerned about it. 14v is definitely not enough to keep Trojans happy.

 

Edit: well except to say that you need a different regulator, either an internal one or an external one. But you probably knew that anyway! You could use a sterling A2B but they are quite expensive.

Edited March 18, 2016 by nicknorman

[by'eck]

Sorry, I can't answer the question but you are right to be concerned about it. 14v is definitely not enough to keep Trojans happy.

 

Edit: well except to say that you need a different regulator, either an internal one or an external one. But you probably knew that anyway! You could use a sterling A2B but they are quite expensive.

 

Or as I have done, fit a Sterling external regulator at considerably lower price. This does require access to one of the brushes though, so a small wiring mod is required.

 

Fitting such will allow you to choose charge profiles to suit a range of batteries, the highest of which will give you 14.8 volts at the batteries, thanks to the battery sensing it allows. It also provides a float mode when charging is complete to prevent gassing and plate corrosion, and temperature compensation.

[OldGoat]

Some (very few) Leece Neviles have an adjustment 'pot' to increase the charge voltage.

It's not a general feature, so impossible to say if yours has or not.

 

What's the model number.

 

Info: is available on the web - that's one reason why I like L-N kit...

[swift1894]

Some (very few) Leece Neviles have an adjustment 'pot' to increase the charge voltage.

It's not a general feature, so impossible to say if yours has or not.

 

What's the model number.

 

Info: is available on the web - that's one reason why I like L-N kit...

I'm pretty sure it's a 160 Amp

Model 8LHA2159V.

The lettering on the label came off when I wiped with a cloth with white spirit on a few years (can you believe it?).

The lettering on the small box (regulator?) on the back says Model 8RG2112 AMPS 7 Volts 12 200703

How are you measuring the voltage, and where? Measure it at the alternator. Most alternators are wired up for basic charging with a undersized cable going to the starter motor so just asking for voltage drop. Improving this by running a cable directly from the alternator to the main batteries isolation switch (BSS safe!) or main batteries with fuse (BSS fail).

 

 

 

This link may be handy... http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/controllers.html

Measured at my Mastervolt MICC so l will measure it at the alternator terminals.

I have 50mm cables running directly from the alternator to batteries

[BMC problems]

Is there any way to adjust the alternator to give out the 14.8 volts that Trojan recommend for bulk charging? At the moment it gives out 14volts.

 

Is 14V the final voltage or the starting voltage?

[OldGoat]

Lots of detail here for that type of unit:-

http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_products/specs.php?pf=true&item_detail_id=299&item=8LHA2159V

 

however, not what you wanted to see.....

 

It's worth spending a little to do the job "properly" rather than just finding a tweak.

Adverc units often appear on e Bay -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adverc-Alternator-Battery-Manager-Management-with-harness-and-test-kit-/111927023929?hash=item1a0f5ed939:g:p6AAAOSwL7VWs4nr

 

The above is good value and Adverc themselves might be persuaded to sell you diagrams and instructions on how to modify the alternator to get the best out of the system.

[swift1894]

Lots of detail here for that type of unit:-

http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_products/specs.php?pf=true&item_detail_id=299&item=8LHA2159V

 

however, not what you wanted to see.....

 

It's worth spending a little to do the job "properly" rather than just finding a tweak.

Adverc units often appear on e Bay -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adverc-Alternator-Battery-Manager-Management-with-harness-and-test-kit-/111927023929?hash=item1a0f5ed939:g:p6AAAOSwL7VWs4nr

 

The above is good value and Adverc themselves might be persuaded to sell you diagrams and instructions on how to modify the alternator to get the best out of the system.

Thanks. Weird how in all that info......nothing about output voltage!

Is 14V the final voltage or the starting voltage?

I'll check next time I'm aboard.

[OldGoat]

swift1894, on 18 Mar 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

Thanks. Weird how in all that info......nothing about output voltage!

 

I'll check next time I'm aboard.

 

No - not really.

These units are designed for vehicles with 'normal' battery types and relatively normal loads - lights, occasional high power devices such as tail lifts (mebe).

Anyone who wants to do something different - such as ambulances, fire engines has to put in a battery management system such as Adverc's - that's where they make their money.

I don't think you'll find any alternator manufacturer - and there aren't many of them - actually quotes voltages other than its rated voltage.

[nb Innisfree]

I was told by a alternator supplier a few years ago that Leece Neville stopped fitting adjustable voltage regulators due to users setting voltage too high and damaging alternator.

[dmr]

Lots of detail here for that type of unit:-

http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_products/specs.php?pf=true&item_detail_id=299&item=8LHA2159V

 

however, not what you wanted to see.....

 

It's worth spending a little to do the job "properly" rather than just finding a tweak.

Adverc units often appear on e Bay -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adverc-Alternator-Battery-Manager-Management-with-harness-and-test-kit-/111927023929?hash=item1a0f5ed939:g:p6AAAOSwL7VWs4nr

 

The above is good value and Adverc themselves might be persuaded to sell you diagrams and instructions on how to modify the alternator to get the best out of the system.

If you phone Adverc they will most likely email you some photos clearly showing how to modify your alternator, and will most likely do this free of charge.

Adverc units are "factory set" for your specified type of battery, but if you take the back off (4 screws...and proper setscrews into tapped holes, no plastic stuff) you will find a single preset (twiddler) that you can adjust to set the required voltage.

 

.................Dave

[ditchcrawler]

From what I remember Adverc do two types of regulator, + or - field, you need the correct one for your alternator, its all to do with how the field winding is connected to the internal regulator.

[ditchcrawler]

From what I remember Adverc do two types of regulator, + or - field, you need the correct one for your alternator, its all to do with how the field winding is connected to the internal regulator.

Lots of info on their web site at http://www.adverc.co.uk/cm/files/pdf/Adverc_installation_basic.pdf

[swift1894]

Lots of info on their web site at http://www.adverc.co.uk/cm/files/pdf/Adverc_installation_basic.pdf

Phew! You can say that again.

Or as I have done, fit a Sterling external regulator at considerably lower price. This does require access to one of the brushes though, so a small wiring mod is required.

 

Fitting such will allow you to choose charge profiles to suit a range of batteries, the highest of which will give you 14.8 volts at the batteries, thanks to the battery sensing it allows. It also provides a float mode when charging is complete to prevent gassing and plate corrosion, and temperature compensation.

Wow! Even more info than Adverc!

 

Decisions decisions!

Edited March 19, 2016 by swift1894

[Tony Brooks]

From what I remember Adverc do two types of regulator, + or - field, you need the correct one for your alternator, its all to do with how the field winding is connected to the internal regulator.

 

I think that is to do with the alternator, not the Adverc. It depends which brush is used to bypass the alternator's own regulator. That is is the alternators regulator on the positive or negative side of the rotor. The actual Adverc is the same but the wiring up may be slightly different.

[by'eck]

 

I think that is to do with the alternator, not the Adverc. It depends which brush is used to bypass the alternator's own regulator. That is is the alternators regulator on the positive or negative side of the rotor. The actual Adverc is the same but the wiring up may be slightly different.

 

I think ditchcrawler is correct in saying there are two Adverc versions to suit positive or negative field control alternators. The instructions although a little vague show wiring variations for each but indicate a different base version.

 

With the Sterling regulator a fused jumper allows choice of either internal regulator polarity so just one version.

Edited March 19, 2016 by by'eck

[dmr]

 

I think ditchcrawler is correct in saying there are two Adverc versions to suit positive or negative field control alternators. The instructions although a little vague show wiring variations for each but indicate a different base version.

 

With the Sterling regulator a fused jumper allows choice of either internal regulator polarity so just one version.

 

Yes, the op will need to confirm this if he decides on the Adverc. I believe that the vast majority of alternators are "Adverc Negative" where the positive goes to the field and the regulator is between field and ground. However I think that a fair few mostly American alternators are the other way around.

 

................Dave

[swift1894]

Think I'll be getting a Sterling. Looks good and I need to give my new Trojans the best treatment.

[by'eck]

Think I'll be getting a Sterling. Looks good and I need to give my new Trojans the best treatment.

 

I've had four on various boats over 20 years and all have been reliable with two exceptions. 150 watts from on board HF transmitter triggered high voltage shutdown occasionally - cured with extra ferrites. One failed after direct lighning strike to masthead - in fairness though it took £12,000 of other electronics with it

[smileypete]

Maybe try a post on cruiserforums and YBW forums, they may be more familiar with Leece Neville alts.

 

The circuit diagram looks like it shows how the reg is typically wired in, might be a candidate for diode mod (see Gibbos pages) if you want to go that way.

 

http://www.prestolite.com/productinfo/alternators/8LHA2159V/8LHA2159V_wiring.jpg

 

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/alt_mod.html

 

ETA: Out of interest, how are the start batts charged?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited March 20, 2016 by smileypete

[swift1894]

Maybe try a post on cruiserforums and YBW forums, they may be more familiar with Leece Neville alts.

 

The circuit diagram looks like it shows how the reg is typically wired in, might be a candidate for diode mod (see Gibbos pages) if you want to go that way.

 

http://www.prestolite.com/productinfo/alternators/8LHA2159V/8LHA2159V_wiring.jpg

 

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/alt_mod.html

 

ETA: Out of interest, how are the start batts charged?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Thanks I'll look into that.

At the moment the starter is charged just whenever I run the genny through a battery charger, but I have a relay that I'm going to wire into the system when I get around to it.

[Sir Nibble]

I have identified the correct regulator and an adjustable version does not unfortunately, seem to be available. It should however be possible to use an external potentiometer to vary the voltage seen at the sense lead or use the diode trick mentioned. I will take a closer look. If you go the Stirling route I think you will find the brushes easily accessible by unscrewing the regulator.

[swift1894]

One failed after direct lighning strike to masthead - in fairness though it took £12,000 of other electronics with it

Blimey! Hope you were insured.⚡️⚡️

[smileypete]

Thanks I'll look into that.

At the moment the starter is charged just whenever I run the genny through a battery charger, but I have a relay that I'm going to wire into the system when I get around to it.

 

Looking at the drawing it appears they they bring out the phase (AC) connections on the back of the unit:

 

http://www.prestolite.com/productinfo/alternators/8LHA2159V/8LHA2159V_dim_r.jpg

 

If so you could probably just connect a 3 phase bridge rectifier to the phase connections, then take the + output to starter batt positive, and get split battery charging without needing relays or VSRs etc.

 

A 100A 3 phase rectifier can be had quite cheaply from asia via Ebay:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/?_nkw=3 phase rectifier

 

Maybe a relay would be easier though.

 

I guess the Trojans will like a higher voltage in winter and a slightly lower one in summer, so some sort of switchable diode arrangement might come in handy, 'schottky' diodes have a smaller drop for a lower voltage boost.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited March 21, 2016 by smileypete