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Toggle switch with LED - Mains - Double Pole 4 Pin - Connection??


Paringa

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I purchased one of these to turn a pump on and off:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231397384155?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

Being a simple fellow I connected up my switch - Blue to one pin and Brown to the other and was delighted to see it turn the pump on and off... Just what I wanted...But i was rather hoping that the Neon would light and tell me that my pump was running too...

 

A bit of looking on the web and I thought I might have a solution so with mains off - and I am well aware of my limitations so play this very safe - I proceeded to do what I thought was correct... I wired Two pins with Brown and Left my Blue alone

 

So I got the Neon to light but the only thing is it sits there glowing like a good'un when the pump is off then goes out when the pump is on.

 

Okay so I thought I must have things backwards...did a bit of swapping and the pump still switched but no Neon.

 

So looking on t'internet they are using all four pins for live and one negative...gave that a go albeit now it was getting dark and so not sure what I was connecting where...no neon, pump running, same scenario.

 

Now I am thoroughly confused... I am calling it a night as I cant see what I am at - combine that with not knowing what I am at and it all could get messy - so I am going down the pub aware of my limitations, beaten by a switch...

 

Basically I just want this switch to activate my pump on and the Neon to glow when the punp is on...over to you. And please be gentle, Blue goes here and Browns go there are about the extent of what I can do.

 

Looking at the pins The top left says N and 2

 

Below that N and 1

 

Below that a blank/no pin and 3

 

on the right hand side top L 5

 

Below that L 4

 

Below that a blank/no pin and 6

 

 

 

Many thanks in advance

Edited by Paringa
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I think you will find that people with electrical knowledge will be very reluctant to give you a "blue goes here, brown goes here" set of instructions.

especially as it is very difficult to work out from your description..

240v ac circuits are too dangerous to give simple advice apart from the obvious, if you don't know what you are doing then please don't do it.

If you get it wrong it can kill

  • Greenie 1
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It looks to me as if it's a simple double pole switch. For the neon to light it would have Line and Neutral feed on the common side and Line and Neutral to the pump on the other side.

 

As to which terminals are which, as John says above, if you don't know what to do from my first paragraph then best to get a sparky in.

 

Tony

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After a very quick read I notice a couple of things. I guess the neon might actually be a L.E.D. these are polarity sensitive so will only work with current flowing in one direction.

 

It says Neon on the eBay advert. If it were an LED, but worked on the mains voltage, then it would still work on AC - it would flicker at 50Hz, but it would work.

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You have bought a double pole switch controlling both live and neutral. It looks like mains goes in on the lower terminals - live (brown) to the one labelled L4 and neutral (blue) to N1. The switched power to device then comes out on the top pins L5 live and N2 neutral when the switch is on.

 

As suggested though take care connecting it up and be absolutely sure AC mains is isolated whilst working with connections

 

Note the bottom blank pin locations are likely because the moulding is employed in a DPDT switch variant.

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If this switch is used for 12v the neon will never light

Not enough voltage it made for 240 v

Its switching 240V.

 

After a very quick read I notice a couple of things. I guess the neon might actually be a L.E.D. these are polarity sensitive so will only work with current flowing in one direction.

It's not an LED and polarity is irrelevant as OP is working with mains AC.

 

It scares that some folk on this thread patently have no idea what they're talking about and yet are prepared to give advice to someone on how to wire up a mains device.

 

By way of example, nobody has commented on the fact that OP had the neon lit at one point, but only when the switch was off. That tells me exactly how the switch was wired, and it has nothing to do with which terminals were the feed.

 

Tony

Edited by WotEver
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Personally I would not even fit one of those things if asked, especially sourced with unknown provenance from eBay. Then there's the conductor connections, though generally speaking the pre insulated terminals (ugh) most people seem to use have insulation rated at 415v AC the potential for problems exists if one comes off because: It doesn't appear to be class 2 and has no earth, personally I would prefer to use a proper low voltage AC switch with indicator, though larger they can be far more safely installed either on a recessed or surface mounted patress with strain relief and a PE. Low voltage AC is not something to be treated lightly.

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As Tony has already said, there are a lot of people pontificating on here who obviously don't have a clue what they are talking about.

including a post that sounds authoritative but is pure bunkum

 

 

eta spellnung

Edited by John V
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Personally I stick with 12 volt DC, so much easier and safer. I'm amazed that the bilge pump runs on mains anyway.

 

Get in a qualified electrician - 250 volts can (and does) kill.

 

If (unlikely) I were to wire in a 250 volt switch with led, then I would buy it from a reputable supplier who includes fitting instructions!

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Thanks all for your comments...

 

Probably muddying the waters further but the switch activates a relay that turns my mains heating pump on and opens a diverter valve - waste heat reclamation via a heat exchanger when i cruise.

 

I won't do any more with this until I can seek further advice.

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Do you have space to fit a normal (mains) 1-gang switch and appropriate back box? I'd shudder to fit that kind of switch, whilst the specification says 240V it has exposed spade terminals so it will need a housing at the back of it (openable only with tools) for safety; and also it just doesn't "look" like a mains device - fitting a fairly standard double pole neon switch unquestionably "says" its a mains device. Also the connections are going to be documented in an understandable way. Also....its not going to be massively expensive either, the parts are mass produced and I can't see a significant cost saving in using the switch you've chosen. The only reason against standard 1-gang mains switches is they tend to be bulky. This can be partially countered by using architrave switches (for which back boxes are also available) but they only come in single-pole versions (although you can easily find a 2-way).


Also, the relay is unnecessary, you could wire both the pump and valve to the same switch, if they're always to come on and off with the switch. If its a switch for a timer/controller though.....

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Two points...

 

1. That switch is generally built into devices such as commercial coffee machines. I have a similar one (but dust resistant) on a bench grinder.

 

2. If it's switching a relay then by far the safest way to proceed would be to replace the relay with one with a 12V coil and switch 12V DC instead of mains.

 

Tony

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Despite some of the errant nonsense in this thread there's nowt wrong with this type of switch for what you want providing you fit it in a suitable enclosure (box) to ensure the terminals can't be touched and give someone s shock.

 

Not sure why you need the relay , if the diverter valve is domestic type ( eg Honeywell )it may have a built in switch that operates when the valve is opened that you can use to operate the pump.

 

Hope that helps

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Don't know if it helps at this late stage but took the liberty of checking connections with supplier.

 

The wiring should be in accordance with the advice I gave in post #9 here which will allow the neon to glow when switch is on.

 

Suggest using the fully insulated Lucar connectors and mounting switch within an enclosure or through a panel the back of which is not normally accessible.

Edited by by'eck
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  • 10 months later...

Hi...i am a new user here. As per my knowledge you have bought a double pole switch controlling both live and neutral. It looks like mains goes in on the lower terminals live to the one labelled L4 and neutral to N1. The switched power to device then comes out on the top pins L5 live and N2 neutral when the switch is on.

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Hi...i am a new user here. As per my knowledge you have bought a double pole switch controlling both live and neutral. It looks like mains goes in on the lower terminals live to the one labelled L4 and neutral to N1. The switched power to device then comes out on the top pins L5 live and N2 neutral when the switch is on.

Thanks for the input but I guess that it was sorted a year ago now.

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In my opinion, as an Electronic Engineer, if someone working with mains electricity, or even 12 volts, has to ask a question on how to wire a basic switch, then they shouldn't be messing with any form of wiring.

 

Who is to say that the contact rating, both voltage and current is suitable? Then there is contact clearances when the contacts are open.

When ebay is mentioned, I sometimes think of some far eastern manufactured cloned items, that often have a CE mark, because to sell in Europe it is a requirement, but some CE marking has no formal certificate of conformity, backed up by tests to certain Euronorm legislation.

 

It might come across a bit harsh, but imagine if some one says.. I am fitting a new gas cooker, should I use PTFE tape or thread sealant on the connections ? We would all cringe at that one.

Richard

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I knew several electronic engineers that should never been allowed near mains electricity

 

I hope you never take any advice from then. I would be interesting to know what they did, for you to make that conclusion.

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I hope you never take any advice from then. I would be interesting to know what they did, for you to make that conclusion.

The were excellent in their field but some of them had a strange idea or power, but then they probably didn't think much of me, a dumb sparky

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