New Zero rated Collingwood boat

[boatboy]

Hi a long time since I posted

Am looking at buying a new Widebeam to fit out and sell on

I see Collingwood have a couple of boats zero rated?

 

 

What I would like to know is if I bought a zero rated boat, I would have to sign a declaration to say it's my main residence.

 

If I wanted to sell it later on, will this affect the sale, as the new purchaser would be buying a zero rated boat.

 

I would appreciate some knowledge on this, Choice pay £8000 on top of price

So that the invoice will show vat paid,

or save £8000 and sell it as a live aboard.?

 

I've rang around and it seems that somebuilders are offering zero rated boats

60 x 10

 

I would appreciate some guildence on the above

Edited February 23, 2016 by boatboy

[Neil Smith]

I think if they are prepared to sell it to you vat free then its thier problem not yours.

 

Neil

[Drayke]

This has been covered before so try doing a search.

Try typing in VAT on Boats

[alan_fincher]

I'm surprised it is possible to meet the criteria for it being VAT free in a wide beam "only" 10 feet wide.

 

I thought the canal wide beams that had managed to met the criteria were more typically more like 12 foot beam, and even then that they usually had to be given untypically deep sides to give the necessary volume to provide sufficient "tonnage" for exemption.

 

Or have the HMRC rules changed relatively recently?

 

I note you say you are in the Milton Keynes area? Is this where you would be basing the boat, and would it be your intention to go boating in it regularly? In all honesty boats that are big enough to qualify as VAT free are really unsuitable to the waterways in that area, and the ever growing numbers of overly large wide beams are to some extent spoiling the canal experience for those that have to share the same water.

 

(Dons flak jacket, and crawls under desk!....)

[peterboat]

I'm surprised it is possible to meet the criteria for it being VAT free in a wide beam "only" 10 feet wide.

 

I thought the canal wide beams that had managed to met the criteria were more typically more like 12 foot beam, and even then that they usually had to be given untypically deep sides to give the necessary volume to provide sufficient "tonnage" for exemption.

 

Or have the HMRC rules changed relatively recently?

 

I note you say you are in the Milton Keynes area? Is this where you would be basing the boat, and would it be your intention to go boating in it regularly? In all honesty boats that are big enough to qualify as VAT free are really unsuitable to the waterways in that area, and the ever growing numbers of overly large wide beams are to some extent spoiling the canal experience for those that have to share the same water.

 

(Dons flak jacket, and crawls under desk!....)

I thought the grand union was built for proper boats rather than shoes for midgets

Tin hat on and in the ditch ready

[alan_fincher]

I thought the grand union was built for proper boats rather than shoes for midgets

Tin hat on and in the ditch ready

 

No the Grand Union is not, and never was, a barge canal north of Berkhamsted. It was very much built for narrow boats, (which can use locks in pairs), and trials with using wide beam boats were quickly abandoned.

 

Anybody who has seen two large (very) wide beams try to pass on Tring summit will be very aware that the canal was built for narrow boats, and that bigger boats can cause issues.

 

Fortunately, however, most of the ever growing numbers of wide beams in the Milton Keynes area seem to move only very rarely. If they made a regular habit of it things would get horrible quite quickly!

 

This is one hazard that has come to that bit of the GU in recent years. It is unsuitable as a cruising hotel boat on that canal, and it is particularly galling that it only carries 4 paying guests. It is probably fine on the Thames, but on the Grand Union a narrow boat hotel boat would cause far less hold ups.

 

[peterboat]

Yes up north our canals were designed for big boats so no issues for us really. But on the GU it was bad enough at Milton keynes with all the moored boats in my narrowboat never mind a wide beam

[BruceinSanity]

Adam reviewed a 9 footer in this month's CB that was zero rated. The trick is to have the gunwales so narrow they don't count as deck and so the whole internal volume is used for the tonnage calc.

 

BUT you have to sign a declaration that the boat will be your residence and, seemingly, HMRC do check up from time to time. If they decide you signed in bad faith, you'd be open to a charge of VAT fraud, so definitely not just the vendor's problem.

[Neil Smith]

I agree it has to be your residence but if you sell it on you have no control over its future use and as you are not vat registered you could not charge it anyway.

 

Neil.

[Alan de Enfield]

Maybe worth a read of this :

 

http://www.thefitoutpontoon.co.uk/buying-building-canal-narrowboat-vat-free-tax-exemption-regulations-liveaboard-qualifying-vessel-widebeam.html

 

A word of warning:
It is vital as a 'Purchaser' you read all the contractual documentation regarding the purchase of any vessels and in particular VAT free vessels. There's been a case highlighted to us where a boat had been sold as 'VAT free' unfortunately on incorrect grounds which post sale lead to the HMRC correctly chasing the seller for the VAT which should have been charged. In this particular case the contract of sale placed the responsibility to satisfy any such VAT claim on the purchaser so they had to stump up.

[Bazza954]

Hi a long time since I posted

Am looking at buying a new Widebeam to fit out and sell on

I see Collingwood have a couple of boats zero rated?

 

 

What I would like to know is if I bought a zero rated boat, I would have to sign a declaration to say it's my main residence.

 

If I wanted to sell it later on, will this affect the sale, as the new purchaser would be buying a zero rated boat.

 

I would appreciate some knowledge on this, Choice pay £8000 on top of price

So that the invoice will show vat paid,

or save £8000 and sell it as a live aboard.?

 

I've rang around and it seems that somebuilders are offering zero rated boats

60 x 10

 

I would appreciate some guildence on the above

I bought a boat from Collingwood VAT @ 0% But you have to sign an HMRC document stating that this will be your only residence. My invoice also states VAT charged at 0%.

Bazza

[Paul C]

Adam reviewed a 9 footer in this month's CB that was zero rated. The trick is to have the gunwales so narrow they don't count as deck and so the whole internal volume is used for the tonnage calc.

 

BUT you have to sign a declaration that the boat will be your residence and, seemingly, HMRC do check up from time to time. If they decide you signed in bad faith, you'd be open to a charge of VAT fraud, so definitely not just the vendor's problem.

 

How narrow do the gunwales have to be to qualify?

[Alan de Enfield]

I'd be very surprised if a 60 x 10 NB with (from looking at the pictures) 'normal' gunnels would meet the requirements of a 'qualifying ship'.

 

If I was in the market I'd require :

 

1) Sight of the 'workings' showing it qualifies ( they must have done them to claim it qualifies)

2) Confirmation from HMRCE that the 'workings' qualify

3) Sight of the purchase contract T&Cs regarding the responsibility for any payment of VAT if it is subsequently found not to be a qualifying ship.

 

Collingwood are a fair sized, well known manufacturer, whom one would hope know what they are doing. As long as they accept any future liability for VAT payment then there should be no problems.

 

If you are buying it with the intention of fitting it out to resell at a profit then I doubt you could justifiably claim it is your primary residence (as required)

 

Tread carefully.

[BruceinSanity]

How narrow do the gunwales have to be to qualify?

Don't know but a PM to Adam1UK would probably do the trick as he did the review.

[raymondh]

Some info here

 

http://www.thefitoutpontoon.co.uk/buying-building-canal-narrowboat-vat-free-tax-exemption-regulations-liveaboard-qualifying-vessel-widebeam.html

 

Ray

[Alan de Enfield]

Some info here

 

http://www.thefitoutpontoon.co.uk/buying-building-canal-narrowboat-vat-free-tax-exemption-regulations-liveaboard-qualifying-vessel-widebeam.html

 

Ray

 

Repetition adds emphasis,

See post #10