Boating On Rivers - Reminder of the Dangers

[Midnight]

 

Safer still, and a whole lot easier, would have been to swing the boat on a rope from the stern quarter on the side of the boat that's away from the wall. If you go about it the right way it's a doddle, even singlehanded, . . all you need to do is make sure there's at least a boat and a half's length of clear wall astern of you before you start.

Start the engine and put a bight of rope from the stern quarter [port side, where you were tied at Cromwell with just a little bit of slack in it round the closest bollard ashore, take off the stern line that you were moored with, then into ahead gear and put on just enough rev's to tighten the stern rope, go up forard and take the headrope off, then back to the controls and use a bit of rudder as necessary to keep the stern pointing directly at the bollard the stern rope is on as the boats head swings downstream.

 

 

I would have done something similar but there were boats moored each side of me and nobody around to help at that time in the morning. But thanks for the post some others may benefit from the advice.

[Alan de Enfield]

....... the keeper would require the boat's skipper to sign a form indemnifying BW/CRT from any damages. Effectively, "we're advising you not to proceed - but if you insist, on your head be it, and sign here to say you understand the consequences". One would hope that might give even the most pig-headed boat-owner cause to reconsider.

 

This system was quietly dropped in 2014 and I've never found out why. I thought it was a good idea and one that could usefully be extended to other river navigations.

 

That's all fine & dandy, but - the Lock keepers on the Trent are 'laid off' from (about) October to April.

 

Doesn't really make sense as in the Summer the river is (normally) a 'pussy' and there are plenty of boaters about to help each other and / or operate the locks, however, in the Winter when the river becomes hazardous and help and guidance is needed, with few boaters about to operate the locks that is when a lockie would be useful.

 

For those that do not know the locks on the Trent they are typically 150 foot long by 20+ feet wide - you can get in probably 6 or 9 narrowboats at a time.

Opening the top paddles causes a huge surge and boats need to be held onto the 'sliders' front & rear by the crew. Ideally at least 2 crew to hold the boat and one to work the lock. It can be done with extreme caution if singlehanded.

[Emerald Fox]

I'm not a fan of boating on rivers, there's too much going on that gets in the way of serious drinking while at the tiller, which for me is what boating is about.

 

Yes but it's just that we have to do a few yards on the Trent to get to the Soar. Narrowboats don't really have any business off their canals in my opinion.

Thanks Tony, I get the idea - hug the right bank, let the back end turn round until the pointy end is pointing up the Soar and then FULL POWER!!!

We might go and look on foot anyway first. I am an over-cautious type, but being over-cautious has saved my skin many a time.

[Midnight]

 

Yes but it's just that we have to do a few yards on the Trent to get to the Soar. Narrowboats don't really have any business off their canals in my opinion.

Thanks Tony, I get the idea - hug the right bank, let the back end turn round until the pointy end is pointing up the Soar and then FULL POWER!!!

We might go and look on foot anyway first. I am an over-cautious type, but being over-cautious has saved my skin many a time.

 

With a10hp engine I think you're right to be over-cautious. Having said that when we went that way the river was very tame so there were no issues at all.

[Giant]

Until 2013, the situation on the Severn, at least, was that the river in such conditions would be deemed to be "in indemnity". A slightly jargonish phrase, but a good idea.

 

If the lock could be worked, but the river was at a level that might cause navigation difficulties, the keeper would require the boat's skipper to sign a form indemnifying BW/CRT from any damages. Effectively, "we're advising you not to proceed - but if you insist, on your head be it, and sign here to say you understand the consequences". One would hope that might give even the most pig-headed boat-owner cause to reconsider.

 

This system was quietly dropped in 2014 and I've never found out why. I thought it was a good idea and one that could usefully be extended to other river navigations.

 

I suspect they may have been worried about the case where someone manages to get into difficulties in moderate conditions, when they've not been required to sign an indemnity form. The boater could then point to the existence of these indemnity forms, and claim that the authority's failure to require an indemnity form that day meant that they considered it safe for that boater to go out on the river. Furthermore, that the authority's desire for an indemnity in some conditions meant that in the absence of one, they must be responsible and liable for any resulting damages.

 

I detest this sort of thinking but sadly it is all too common.

[The Lockie]

You really have to ask why in God's name did the lock keeper let that boat out onto the river. In the days when Cromwell, Torksey, Stockwith, Selby and Naburn were manned by lock keepers who were usually ex-boatmen, but invariably experienced rivermen, any boat or skipper that, in their estimation, wasn't up to the job was refused passage.

I'm sure it must say somewhere, probably the human rights act, that the skipper has a legal right to be a fuxxwit!!

[colinwilks]

 

Yes but it's just that we have to do a few yards on the Trent to get to the Soar. Narrowboats don't really have any business off their canals in my opinion.

Thanks Tony, I get the idea - hug the right bank, let the back end turn round until the pointy end is pointing up the Soar and then FULL POWER!!!

We might go and look on foot anyway first. I am an over-cautious type, but being over-cautious has saved my skin many a time.

If you're coming from Shardlow you'll be downstream on the Trent from Derwent Mouth for a mile before locking down through the twin locks at Sawley, from where it's about another mile to Trent Lock and round to the Soar.

 

If you're nervous, I'd hang around at Sawley and ask someone who's going the same way if you can stick with them.

[MtB]

This system was quietly dropped in 2014 and I've never found out why. I thought it was a good idea and one that could usefully be extended to other river navigations.

 

 

When I was heading up the The Thames three or four years ago on (unnecessary, in my opinion) red boards, one lock keeper gave me a postcard-sized Warning Card explaining the risks I was taking, and making it clear that the EA advised me not to proceed.

 

He also said he thought I understood the risks and didn't need the card, but said he was obliged to give it to me anyway.

 

None of the other lockies gave me a card!

[Delta9]

the keeper would require the boat's skipper to sign a form indemnifying BW/CRT from any damages. Effectively, "we're advising you not to proceed - but if you insist, on your head be it, and sign here to say you understand the consequences". One would hope that might give even the most pig-headed boat-owner cause to reconsider.

 

 

 

Halfords once made me sign something like that before they would let me take my car away

[GUMPY]

From memory on the Severn they also operated a less then 2ft of fresh on and you may go.

We once left Diglis, lock keeper insisted we went out backwards, with 1'11" of fresh on by the time we arrived at Stourport it was way over 2ft and we duly got a serious telling off from the keeper there, including the imortal line "what idiot let you out in this".

[FadeToScarlet]

 

With a10hp engine I think you're right to be over-cautious. Having said that when we went that way the river was very tame so there were no issues at all.

There's an interesting article in the Autumn Narrow Boat magazine on how to do that junction with one horse power- involving a very long line and a chain ferry.

[Naughty Cal]

 

Yes but it's just that we have to do a few yards on the Trent to get to the Soar. Narrowboats don't really have any business off their canals in my opinion.

Thanks Tony, I get the idea - hug the right bank, let the back end turn round until the pointy end is pointing up the Soar and then FULL POWER!!!

We might go and look on foot anyway first. I am an over-cautious type, but being over-cautious has saved my skin many a time.

It would be better all round if some people realised that narrowboats have their place and that isn't on rivers.

 

They were designed for a specific purpose. That wasn't wide open, flowing water.

 

Until people are willing to accept responsibility for their own actions then they should be banned from making choices that include taking their vessel into Waters it isn't designed to navigate.

[FadeToScarlet]

It would be better all round if some people realised that narrowboats have their place and that isn't on rivers.

 

They were designed for a specific purpose. That wasn't wide open, flowing water.

 

Until people are willing to accept responsibility for their own actions then they should be banned from making choices that include taking their vessel into Waters it isn't designed to navigate.

My narrow boat was designed for a specific purpose. Getting goods from Gloucester to Birmingham, via the Severn, which is pretty wide, flowing water.

[Tony Dunkley]

My narrow boat was designed for a specific purpose. Getting goods from Gloucester to Birmingham, via the Severn, which is pretty wide, flowing water.

 

Generally speaking, the only design variation in some narrowboats built with the intention of river work was a bit deeper sides for a bit more loaded freeboard on the river, but to consider that any vessel is unsuitable for rivers because it's only around 7' wide is utterly ridiculous. A large proportion of the GUCCCo. fleet was even built and launched on the Thames and the Weaver, and many of FMC's later boats also came from the Weaver, joining the earlier boats which although originating from yards such as Uxbridge and Saltley had regularly worked on the Thames.

 

But leaving aside other rivers where narrowboats operated, and just considering the use of them on the Trent alone, there were the horsedrawn narrowboats, also sometimes rigged with a square sail, that traded on the Trent and the Chesterfield canal, and FMC ran a regular service to Leicester and Nottingham with horseboats, then steamers, sometimes towing two horseboats on the river, and finally motors with 15 hp Bolinders and a butty.

 

In more recent times, and speaking from personal involvement rather than quoting from historical records, after leaving school in the early 1960's I worked for a Leicester based canal carriers who brought a lot of imported timber up the Trent and Soar to Leicester by narrowboat, loaded overside from ship in Boston, or up the Nene from Wisbech.

There were a variety of different motors used on the work at different times. One of them,'Jaguar', was the high powered flying machine of the fleet with a 27 hp Lister FR3, the next most powerful was 'Neptune' with a 21hp JP2 and other motors, hired in from British Waterways when needed, had 2 cylinder Armstrongs, which I think were around 18-20 hp.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[RLWP]

It would be better all round if some people realised that narrowboats have their place and that isn't on rivers.

 

They were designed for a specific purpose. That wasn't wide open, flowing water.

 

Until people are willing to accept responsibility for their own actions then they should be banned from making choices that include taking their vessel into Waters it isn't designed to navigate.

 

Hello, where have you been?

 

Richard

[Tony Dunkley]

 

Thanks Tony, I get the idea - hug the right bank, let the back end turn round until the pointy end is pointing up the Soar and then FULL POWER!!!

 

and a bit earlier :~

 

What's that area like - too scary for a 10hp engine and 40-foot boat (ours)?

 

That's not quite right. You mustn't be so close to the starboard bank so as not to have enough room to turn side on to the current in the Trent just before you reach the mouth of the Soar.

 

The Trent is quite wide there, and judging it from making that turn with either narrowboats at 70' odd or pushing hoppers with a Bantam at around 90', I would say it's the best part of 200' between the banks.

To further allay any concerns you might still be having about tackling this with your boat and engine, the narrowboats were operating in pairs, motor and butty, with a variety of different engines of around 20hp, and the Bantam tug was pushing 60 ton pans, all up displacement of around 85-90 tons, with a 3 x cylinder Lister of just over 30 hp.

 

The 'ness', [the inside bit of the turn] there is a very abrupt right angle, which is why you need to be side-on to the Trent current as you draw level with it. When you're being carried side-on downriver by the current, then the current you're in isn't 'hitting' the side of the boat, because it's just keeping pace with it, but if you're stern-on and in line to the Trent current as you draw level with the ness, then the strong current from the Soar [if it's in flood] does 'hit' the starboard side of the boat and pushes you to port in a wide arc towards the railway bridge and the weir.

If both the Trent and the Soar are down to around normal levels when you're there, you'll find the current is barely noticeable when you're making the turn, . . you only need to adopt the procedure of turning side on well before the turn if there's a lot of 'fresh' in both rivers and the levels are up with a much stronger current.

 

Just one other thing to remember, and this applies in many circumstances on higher than normal river levels and in strong currents. If any manoeuvre like this that you're taking on starts going wrong, then don't ever under any circumstances lose your nerve and either ease off or go astern. It almost invariably makes matters worse and not better, and all you will have done is to let the river take control of you and the boat.

Reducing boat speed over the ground as much as possible before beginning any kind of manoeuvre whilst travelling downstream with a strong current or tide not only gives you more time for everything, but it also lets you judge the speed of the current much better than when you're moving over the water at higher speed. Throughout any kind of turn or manoeuvre, always keep the boat speed both through the water and over the ground as low as possible whilst having only just enough power on to maintain steerage way

Edited February 21, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[homer2911]

It would be better all round if some people realised that narrowboats have their place and that isn't on rivers.

 

They were designed for a specific purpose. That wasn't wide open, flowing water.

 

Until people are willing to accept responsibility for their own actions then they should be banned from making choices that include taking their vessel into Waters it isn't designed to navigate.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that my wife and I, despite being sensible and wearing life-jackets when on rivers, despite having an anchor ready at all times, and despite my having undertaken a VHF radio course, should not have navigated in recent years the following, in our very well-maintained 1992 boat, with its 40 hp Lister engine?

 

The Ribble Link, involving the tidal River Douglas and the equally tidal Ribble

The tidal Trent - many times

The tidal Thames - once from Teddington to Brentford and once from Teddington to Brentford, Regents canal to Limehouse, and tidal Thames back to Teddington

The Bristol Channel from Portishead Marina to Sharpness - with a pilot, who insisted upon Force 3 or less winds for our safety

 

.Narrowboats may have been designed for canals, but they are more than capable of cruising further afield, with the right precautions - for goodness sake, narrowboats have crossed the English Channel!

 

Oh, and I forgot the River Soar!

Edited February 21, 2016 by homer2911

[Emerald Fox]

"If you're nervous, I'd hang around at Sawley and ask someone who's going the same way if you can stick with them."

 

"the strong current from the Soar [if it's in flood] does 'hit' the starboard side of the boat and pushes you to port in a wide arc towards the railway bridge and the weir."

 

Have copied to WORD to remind me later when we do this. I like the idea of having someone else being close by just in case - and I'm sure, now, that we will nip over in a car and then by foot to see what this place looks like before we go there by boat.

(We have only had river experience once and that was on the Cherwell (southern Oxford) where we did go downhill at an exhilarating pace, and seriously wondered if we could push back uphill - but we did with no problems.)

 

Hah! Found it. 05.40 - 07.35:

 

Edited February 21, 2016 by Emerald Fox

[Rob-M]

I've only been round the turn on to the Soar once but it was normal levels and as Tony has said in these conditions I don't recall noticing any current flow. We may have been moving around normal cruising pace with less revs on. We were on a hire boat at the time so no idea what power the engine had.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Rob-M

[FadeToScarlet]

It would be better all round if some people realised that narrowboats have their place and that isn't on rivers.

 

They were designed for a specific purpose. That wasn't wide open, flowing water.

 

Until people are willing to accept responsibility for their own actions then they should be banned from making choices that include taking their vessel into Waters it isn't designed to navigate.

A couple of further thoughts-

 

Your boat very certainly wasn't designed for canals; But there are some you can access and use. It's not suitable for all, because of the constraints of the design, but there are some you can access perfectly well. There are also some you could access with care under certain conditions.

 

Much the same with narrow boats and rivers, really. Not all are accessible or sensible to be on, and care, respect and knowledge are needed for all, but many are fine to use.

[chazzy]

Foxy let me know when you want to do your trip up the Soar, if you want and if we are available Rene and myself will come down to meet you at Sawley on our boat and shadow you from Sawley onto the Soar.

[Guest]

We have done Sawley to the Soar/Erewash/Trent several times in both directions both in a hire boat of unknown HP and our own 42 HP boat.

 

I guess given the HP and the times we chose to cross we never found it particularly challenging TBH.

[Tony Dunkley]

A couple of further thoughts-

 

Your boat very certainly wasn't designed for canals; But there are some you can access and use. It's not suitable for all, because of the constraints of the design, but there are some you can access perfectly well. There are also some you could access with care under certain conditions.

 

Much the same with narrow boats and rivers, really. Not all are accessible or sensible to be on, and care, respect and knowledge are needed for all, but many are fine to use.

 

Both historical and present day usage, previously by carrying boats and nowadays by pleasure craft says otherwise.

It's true that many of today's 'narrowboats' do suffer from engine overheating when running hard for long spells on rivers, but that's down to crumby engine installations, and nothing to do with them being only 7' wide.

[Tam & Di]

 

..but that's down to crumby engine installations, and nothing to do with them being only 7' wide.

 

and I would add to that that the experience of the steerer is a major factor too. More important than the length of time you've owned your boat will be how you use it - if your boating is to drift around at 2 miles an hour for 4 or 5 hours a day when the sun shines you will not really be equipped to tackle a river with a bit of fresh running, not only with your ability but also with your understanding of what your boat is actually capable of.

 

Tam

[Mrs Trackman]

Just had a quick read of this thread so sorry if repeating.

I totally am not surprised that the poor boater got into trouble. many people buy a boat and have little idea what they are doing on the canals let alone on powerful rivers.

In this specific case, there are no lights or notices at Cranfleet, Beeston, Meadow Lane or Holme lock. There are coloured marker boards at the first 3 but only a depth gauge at Holme lock. There is no indication on the depth gauge to indicate navigation shouldn't take place.

To me, the Trent looks terrifying when there is a fast flow but to a novice it's maybe not obvious.

 

edit to add, though there are coloured marker boards at the 3 locks you would have to look for them, they are by no means obvious.

In addition, the lockie at Beeston has said to me that the river is open even when the board is red, he says the board isn't right.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Mrs Trackman