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Springer 23 Waterbug


Tony on the Lancaster

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Hi Everyone,

 

Looking to purchase a first narrowboat, a 1991 Springer Waterbug 23'. Been reading a few items on different forums and I see the steel used on this boat is thinner than newer boats, this being 3mm all over instead of the usual 10-6-5-4. The engine is a 9.9 Honda outboard which I imagine would push it along quite nicely & economically. If I decide to go ahead, will

probably have an out of water survey done on the hull.

Then the snag of bringing it back home to the Lancaster Canal. The Ribble Link is closed until mid/late April. Are these boats suitable for a trailer, some reports say they are too heavy? May have to think of a low loader & crane (boat is near Ashton-u-Lyne on the Huddersfield Narrow). Portland Basin, Dukinfield have a dry dock for survey but no crane or slipway.

 

Does anyone know of a marina around there that has a crane lift and a dry dock together please, unless there is a suitable trailer out there somewhere?

 

Thanks everyone, look forward to your replies!!

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Hi Everyone,

 

Looking to purchase a first narrowboat, a 1991 Springer Waterbug 23'. Been reading a few items on different forums and I see the steel used on this boat is thinner than newer boats, this being 3mm all over instead of the usual 10-6-5-4. The engine is a 9.9 Honda outboard which I imagine would push it along quite nicely & economically. If I decide to go ahead, will

probably have an out of water survey done on the hull.

Then the snag of bringing it back home to the Lancaster Canal. The Ribble Link is closed until mid/late April. Are these boats suitable for a trailer, some reports say they are too heavy? May have to think of a low loader & crane (boat is near Ashton-u-Lyne on the Huddersfield Narrow). Portland Basin, Dukinfield have a dry dock for survey but no crane or slipway.

 

Does anyone know of a marina around there that has a crane lift and a dry dock together please, unless there is a suitable trailer out there somewhere?

 

Thanks everyone, look forward to your replies!!

 

Before parting with your hard earned cash contact a few insurance brokers - many will not insure a boat of less than 4mm thickness - the fact that it was built with less than that is irrelevant to them.

You will be able to insure it 3rd party only if you are prepared to take the risk of "losing everything" if the worst should happen.

 

You WILL need a survey as the insurance companies will insist on a full survey for a boat of that age if you can get them to accept it for 'fully comprehensive' insurance.

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nobody will like to say it tony, but a semi old springer, plus low loader, you could be wasting your money, a lot of springer owners will be angry at me for saying this, but that make of boat has little resale value and I think unless it is very cheap steer clear nora

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nobody will like to say it tony, but a semi old springer, plus low loader, you could be wasting your money, a lot of springer owners will be angry at me for saying this, but that make of boat has little resale value and I think unless it is very cheap steer clear nora

I am sure you mean well, but your post is not very encouraging.

Firstly, we don't know how much Tony is thinking of paying for the boat.

Secondly, we don't know how soon, if at all, he intends to resell it, so this value may not be relevant.

Thirdly, to say that Springers have very little resale value doesn't mean much. How little is very little? Of course they sell for less than a Wilson or a Hudson, but they have cost less to buy in the first place.

Fourthly, though they may not sell for loads of money, they do sell fairly quickly. There is a ready market for them.

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A rigid flat bed truck with a decent Hi-ab and spud legs would easily lift and transport it. We had a heavy GRP ships lifeboat with a heavy Lister engine in it delivered here with one a few weeks ago and it did it with no trouble.

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If you do have it lifted and put on a crane, bear in mind its probably V-hulled so it adds to the expense of the process. Some boatyards and hauliers can't handle it and almost all will charge more. Also, not sure if there's going to be distortion issues if you lift out a 3mm hull of unknown condition - but its possible. Worth treading VERY carefully.

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that make of boat has little resale value

 

I've always had the impression that there's a steady demand for them as cheap starter boats, and as such they hold what value they have (£8000-£10,000?) pretty well... although some expense could certainly be involved in maintaining that value if e.g. overplating was ever needed.

 

Our old boat was of a similar age, size and spec (4mm steel), and I must admit I'd be wary of buying something with such thin steel again. Not that we had any problems with it while we owned it, just that I could never escape the feeling that the day it would need replating/overplating could not be that long coming.

 

You could maybe talk to GJW about insurance. The steel on our boat was below 4mm in places and they were happy to insure that (and we had a very positive experience with them when we had to actually make a claim).

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Thanks everyone for comments so far. The insurance aspect I may have a slight advantage here, I used to work for the Swinton Group for many years and know the market reasonably well. Nautical Insurance Services of Leigh-on-Sea have an excellent policy with Lloyds underwriters and will offer fully comp cover for £95 with a £100 excess based on a value of £10,000 (asking price of the boat). No survey required as yet but possibly when the boat reaches 30 years old. If I go ahead I'll definitely go ahead with a hull survey at least.

Yes, hoping to keep it for a while subject to the report of course. If the report is good, must be worth £8K at least?

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£10k seems very high, unless perhaps it is in absolutely amazing nick and has been overplated.

 

As others say, be careful about transport if it has not been overplated - I know this because my little 21ft boat (1968, Springer copy) crushed its keel under its own weight when in dry dock recently, along with other holes appearing following jetwashing and hull flexing. I got mine moved by JW Morley of Nuneaton who were excellent with HIAB - closer to you I also got a decent quote and a sense of confidence from Diamond H Transport who are based in Liverpool but work nationwide. The V bottom was dealt with through blocks of wood chocking it up and firm strapping. Someone did tell me they could do it with a trailer, but I didn't pursue it for other reasons.

 

Plating was done without any damage to lining by Kedian Engineering - however a 10K boat shouldn't need work like that. Pics of transport are later on in this thread if interested. http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=80083&hl=

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Hi Everyone,

 

Looking to purchase a first narrowboat, a 1991 Springer Waterbug 23'. Been reading a few items on different forums and I see the steel used on this boat is thinner than newer boats, this being 3mm all over instead of the usual 10-6-5-4. The engine is a 9.9 Honda outboard which I imagine would push it along quite nicely & economically. If I decide to go ahead, will

probably have an out of water survey done on the hull.

Then the snag of bringing it back home to the Lancaster Canal. The Ribble Link is closed until mid/late April. Are these boats suitable for a trailer, some reports say they are too heavy? May have to think of a low loader & crane (boat is near Ashton-u-Lyne on the Huddersfield Narrow). Portland Basin, Dukinfield have a dry dock for survey but no crane or slipway.

 

Does anyone know of a marina around there that has a crane lift and a dry dock together please, unless there is a suitable trailer out there somewhere?

 

Thanks everyone, look forward to your replies!!

How do you know the hull is 3mm?

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I love my Springer waterbug, the Morris Minor of the waterways!

I had it almost 9 years before it needed over plating - and then a very small amount. It had rusted from the inside out as the floor was solid and the inside of the hull hadn't been treated in all the 25 years since it was built. I've remedied this now!

I have an inboard engine and like that very much.

Do get a survey though. I made an offer subject to survey, and managed to get the price reduced due to a few problems being noticed. The survey paid for itself in that I got more than it cost knocked off the price.

I wish you all the best.

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Thanks everyone for comments so far. The insurance aspect I may have a slight advantage here, I used to work for the Swinton Group for many years and know the market reasonably well. Nautical Insurance Services of Leigh-on-Sea have an excellent policy with Lloyds underwriters and will offer fully comp cover for £95 with a £100 excess based on a value of £10,000 (asking price of the boat). No survey required as yet but possibly when the boat reaches 30 years old. If I go ahead I'll definitely go ahead with a hull survey at least.

Yes, hoping to keep it for a while subject to the report of course. If the report is good, must be worth £8K at least?

 

I first insured my boat with Nautical Insurance Services but found that Saga had exactly the same policy with the same underwriters but without the £20 'administration fee'. There have got to be some perks to getting old!

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I was in Springers yard (work being done on a girlfriends boat) when the Waterbug was being introduced. Although quite heavy, the design idea was that it could be launched and recovered on a trailer behind a 4 wheel drive.

A lot of people sneer at ordinary Springers and to be honest their welding is of the "don't grind it smooth, it's stronger bumpy" variety but their rolled Vee hull, achieves high strength through clever design rather than brute force. The other good thing about a Vee hull is that it enables you to paint it which compensates for the thinner steel in the corrosion stakes. I have a lot of respect for them, They were the first steel boats for a very large number of people and they served them well.

  • Greenie 1
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Greeno for that, John. That would be about 1989?

 

It could well have been, certainly 80's.....I had been trying to remember the year but couldn't, I would have to dig back through my paperwork (if I still have any from that long ago) to be sure.

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A small boat with an outboard is very maneuverable, especially in reverse, easier to fix if you get a major problem. One drawback is lack of 12v output, maybe only 5amps,but that can be remedied with a big solar panel and or charging your batteries at home.

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Thanks again everyone, great feedback! Mary P, I read a while ago this boat was the old Ford Fiesta of the waterway, but Morris Minor is well suited!!

Laurie.Booth, I was going off previous write ups online & WW said majority were 3mm,maybe some are slightly more.

Odana - thanks for the movement details. Anyway viewing tomorrow - I'll let you know how it goes.

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As long as the combined weight of the boat and a strong trailer is less than 3500kg you could slip and move it with a Landrover or Landcruiser ( not sure which other 4x4's are plated for 3500kg ) as John commented. My boat is only 3mm steel , Any rusty sections I cut out with an angle grinder and fitted new steel in, welded with a 180 amp mig which coped fine.

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Just be aware that, with an outboard, you're going to have to sometimes walk for some distance to get petrol for the boat.

 

There is a phone app called Whatgas which gives you location of petrol stations, and you can see which bridge is nearest to the garage you are going to use. You will also need to store enough petrol to top the engine up to allow you to get to the next garage.

 

Storing petrol ( and also filling the tank from a petrol can) needs to be done as safely as possible. Having had a boat with an outboard I can say that its sometimes a right pain.

 

Personally I wouldn't go down that route again. I'd try and find one with a diesel inboard instead. Much simpler.

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Just be aware that, with an outboard, you're going to have to sometimes walk for some distance to get petrol for the boat.

 

There is a phone app called Whatgas which gives you location of petrol stations, and you can see which bridge is nearest to the garage you are going to use. You will also need to store enough petrol to top the engine up to allow you to get to the next garage.

 

Storing petrol ( and also filling the tank from a petrol can) needs to be done as safely as possible. Having had a boat with an outboard I can say that its sometimes a right pain.

 

Personally I wouldn't go down that route again. I'd try and find one with a diesel inboard instead. Much simpler.

 

Our old narrowboat also had a petrol outboard and there's no doubt it's less convenient than an inboard diesel engine complemented by a good size fuel tank. As a rule of thumb,we used to reckon on using 1 litre of petrol per hour's cruising; so when doing full days, filling a couple of 5 litre jerry cans at a petrol station, bringing them back to the boat, and topping up the 13 litre tank, was a more-or-less daily task. Best case scenario was finding a petrol station close enough to the canal that we felt inclined to go back and refill the cans after filling the tank, meaning we could do maybe three days' cruising before visiting another petrol station.

 

That probably sounds like an absolute pain to a lot of boaters accustomed to big diesel tanks; but then I'm sure emptying a toilet cassette every couple of days sounds like an absolute pain to a lot of boaters accustomed to big waste tanks, and yet plenty of other people happily do it. We never found it a huge inconvenience, or found our cruising options were restricted by a lack of petrol stations along potential routes; it just meant a bit of planning ahead using Google Maps/Google Earth. As often as not, the most convenient petrol station would be at a supermarket we'd have needed to visit anyway.

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