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Bilge Pumps


sal garfi

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Hello,

 

My little Norman 22 has two bilge pumps that were installed by its previous owner. They have wires coming out of them, but I have followed them, and they appear to go nowhere, so both pumps are not working.

 

One pump is a small blue and white plastic jobbie, and it is placed at the bottom of one compartment in the bilge. It is plastic and depends on water covering its base by around 9 mm (it is very similar to numerous low costs pumps that can be seen in the chandlery where I am moored). The other pump is attached to a cross member situated across another bilge compartment, and it has a hose that can be placed into any compartment to extract water. This latter pump is very robust and relatively substantial. It is a Flow Jet Automatic Multifixture Pump, Model 2000-12 Type IV, but I can'd find out much about it. So, I have the following questions:

 

No. 1, is there anyone here on the forum who has one of these pumps (especially the Flow Jet), and

 

No. 2, can anyone advise me on how to wire the pumps up (again, especially the Flow Jet) so that I can use either of them?

 

My use of electricity (and my knowledge of it) is very rudimentary. Both pumps are 12 volts and I have two large leisure batteries. Ideally, I would like to connect them directly to a battery with a simple on/off switch. Again, since I don't know much about both of these pumps, I would still like it if they could work autimatically, but if not, I could cope. Any assistance would be most welcome!!

 

Thanks!

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You need a float switch, so when the bilges start filling the pumps come on automatically, one for each pump.

 

If you are connecting them directly to the battery (by-passing the main isolator) fit a fuse in line in case of a short circuit.

 

Wire them separately.

 

If you want to fit a manual switch avoid the three position on-off-auto bilge pump switches. Just flick the float switch with a stick, brolly, broom.... etc.

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You need a float switch, so when the bilges start filling the pumps come on automatically, one for each pump.

 

If you are connecting them directly to the battery (by-passing the main isolator) fit a fuse in line in case of a short circuit.

 

Wire them separately.

 

If you want to fit a manual switch avoid the three position on-off-auto bilge pump switches. Just flick the float switch with a stick, brolly, broom.... etc.

 

I've put a pull-on push-off switch just above the coal box under my back step. It simply shorts the float switch just in case the float switch fails or gets stuck down. It would be an real arse to poke it with a stick!

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I've put a pull-on push-off switch just above the coal box under my back step. It simply shorts the float switch just in case the float switch fails or gets stuck down. It would be an real arse to poke it with a stick!

Likes, good call.

:0)

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As we do not know your system especially regarding your battery system I am going to tell you how I set mine up on my narrowboat. A couple of pictures of the pumps would be useful and also let us know what you have for batteries, ie starter and leisure if you have them. Anyway the Flojet does seem a bit over the top for a bilge pump. We do not know what the little blue pump is but it could well have an integral float switch or if not then you will need an external float switch for it to be automatic. In my opinion there is little point in fitting a bilge pump unless 1) it is automatic 2) it is connected directly to your leisure batteries. There are some on here who will disagree with that but my reasoning is if the water gets high enough to operate the bilge switch then everything is done without you having to constantly monitor whether water is getting in. If you are not a live aboard and, like me, you only see your boat every couple of weeks especially in the winter then if your bilge pump is not automatic then your boat could well sink in between visits. As loafer has pointed out an override switch is desirable in case the flaot switch sticks.

 

The pump needs to be connected directly to your leisure batteries via the float switch which should make or break the positive lead to the pump. There should be a fuse ( I think mine was a 5 amp inline fuse but I could be wrong on that) inline with the positive lead. if you fit an override switch then it should be connected across the float switch so that if the float switch does fail then the over ride switch can be used to turn the bilge pump on. As I have said this is the way that I did it on my narrowboat. There is no point whatsoever IMO to wire it via the isolator switch because if you are not on the boat then the isolator will be switched off and the bilge pump will not be protecting your boat. Of course if you are getting significant water in your boat then whilst the bilge pump will, hopefully, stop you sinking the cause of the water ingress must be investigated. If you are live aboard then, Perhaps, some of what I have said would not be neccessary although I would still do it my way even if I lived on my boat.

 

Sorry about the long post and I hope you understood it. If it's still not clear I can rustle up a diagram that might make it a bit clearer.

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If you have an automatic bilge pump which quietly gets on with the job of pumping out water when you are not there, you will never know how much water it pumps out, and therefore how big a leak you might have.

 

Until it flattens the battery.

 

A boat should be perfectly capable of surviving a few weeks without needing its bilges pumping.

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If you have an automatic bilge pump which quietly gets on with the job of pumping out water when you are not there, you will never know how much water it pumps out, and therefore how big a leak you might have.

 

Until it flattens the battery.

 

A boat should be perfectly capable of surviving a few weeks without needing its bilges pumping.

 

This is correct for many types of boat but not for all.

Aft cockpit GRP cruisers with a tarp cockpit cover can easily lose or loosen the cover in bad weather and the amount of water than can then collect is staggering, so it is not necessarily a "leak"

.

With a small GRP cruiser an automatic bilge pump is a good idea, even if the boat is not in danger of sinking the condensation damage caused by a lot of water in the bilge should not be underestimated.

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A boat should be perfectly capable of surviving a few weeks without needing its bilges pumping.

That really depends on the boat and the amount of water. Assuming a given amount of water in the bilges, the smaller the boat the more frequent the pumping will need to be.

 

For similar reasons a smaller boat will generally require a higher flow rate bilge pump than a bigger boat.

 

Whatever pumps a boat has, powering them is obviously critical. Either the boat is visited regularly and the engine run to charge the batteries; it has solar panels, or is on shore power with a battery charger left on.

Edited by blackrose
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As we do not know your system especially regarding your battery system I am going to tell you how I set mine up on my narrowboat. A couple of pictures of the pumps would be useful and also let us know what you have for batteries, ie starter and leisure if you have them. Anyway the Flojet does seem a bit over the top for a bilge pump. We do not know what the little blue pump is but it could well have an integral float switch or if not then you will need an external float switch for it to be automatic. In my opinion there is little point in fitting a bilge pump unless 1) it is automatic 2) it is connected directly to your leisure batteries. There are some on here who will disagree with that but my reasoning is if the water gets high enough to operate the bilge switch then everything is done without you having to constantly monitor whether water is getting in. If you are not a live aboard and, like me, you only see your boat every couple of weeks especially in the winter then if your bilge pump is not automatic then your boat could well sink in between visits. As loafer has pointed out an override switch is desirable in case the flaot switch sticks.

 

The pump needs to be connected directly to your leisure batteries via the float switch which should make or break the positive lead to the pump. There should be a fuse ( I think mine was a 5 amp inline fuse but I could be wrong on that) inline with the positive lead. if you fit an override switch then it should be connected across the float switch so that if the float switch does fail then the over ride switch can be used to turn the bilge pump on. As I have said this is the way that I did it on my narrowboat. There is no point whatsoever IMO to wire it via the isolator switch because if you are not on the boat then the isolator will be switched off and the bilge pump will not be protecting your boat. Of course if you are getting significant water in your boat then whilst the bilge pump will, hopefully, stop you sinking the cause of the water ingress must be investigated. If you are live aboard then, Perhaps, some of what I have said would not be neccessary although I would still do it my way even if I lived on my boat.

 

Sorry about the long post and I hope you understood it. If it's still not clear I can rustle up a diagram that might make it a bit clearer.

 

I am away from the boat now, and I won't return for about a week and a half so I can't provide any pictures. I think that the little blue and white pump might be the type that, if connected, will sense every so often to see if there is water, and then, presumably, pump - but this is only a guess on my part!

 

There are periods when I am away from the boat for up to five weeks so I would like to have autiomatic bilge pumps, though the water accumulation has been such that I have been able to easily remove it within 10 to 15 minutes of easy bailing. I have two leisure batteries of 110AHr and they are linked in line with one hooked up as the starter battery (the setup worked well for the previous owner and it still works fine - the batteries are healthy). I like the idea of connecting the pumps directly to the leisure battery and I think I understand what you're saying, Pete, but a diagram would be very useful, and if you could muster one that would really be great. I am also wondering, while I am away from the boat, if the bilge pumps could be temporarily connected to a mains 230-12 volt transformer (like the type for an electric coolbox), so that no pull at all would be on the leisure battery?

 

I am presently trying to figure out exactly where the water is coming in (it's perplexing me in all truth) but I still ought to have the pumps.

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I am away from the boat now, and I won't return for about a week and a half so I can't provide any pictures. I think that the little blue and white pump might be the type that, if connected, will sense every so often to see if there is water, and then, presumably, pump - but this is only a guess on my part!

 

There are periods when I am away from the boat for up to five weeks so I would like to have autiomatic bilge pumps, though the water accumulation has been such that I have been able to easily remove it within 10 to 15 minutes of easy bailing. I have two leisure batteries of 110AHr and they are linked in line with one hooked up as the starter battery (the setup worked well for the previous owner and it still works fine - the batteries are healthy). I like the idea of connecting the pumps directly to the leisure battery and I think I understand what you're saying, Pete, but a diagram would be very useful, and if you could muster one that would really be great. I am also wondering, while I am away from the boat, if the bilge pumps could be temporarily connected to a mains 230-12 volt transformer (like the type for an electric coolbox), so that no pull at all would be on the leisure battery?

 

I am presently trying to figure out exactly where the water is coming in (it's perplexing me in all truth) but I still ought to have the pumps.

 

Ahhh. the vagaries of the internet, so briefly do yesterdays posts become stale.

 

If you have to do that much bailing you do have a problem somewhere.

 

The 'linking' of the batteries sounds odd.

 

One for starter and one for 'House" is better surely?

 

Can you compare the voltages stored in each?

 

Have you tried the pumps, do they actually do anything if you connect them? Maybe a little 12v battery (motorcycle size ) connected up to them to see if they do work at all?

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If you have to do that much bailing you do have a problem somewhere.

 

If you have a boat with self draining decks and/or properly fitted covers, that could well indicate a problem, but if your boat is such that rainwater finds its way into the bilges it could be indicative of nothing more than some rainy days. Edited by David Mack
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If you have a boat with self draining decks and/or properly fitted covers, that could well indicate a problem, but if your boat is such that rainwater finds its way into the bilges it could be indicative of nothing more than some rainy days.

 

One leak is definitely rain ingress, it's the other one that I find odd. I'm returning to the boat this weekend and I shall be testing the pumps. In all truth, even when I have been away from the boat for five weeks or so, the water level has never got high enough to fully cover the intakes on, for instance, the blue and white pump; and luckily, the compartments in which water collects are not that large.

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One issue with auto-pumps is that oily, greasy water will be pumped out into the cut.

 

You might consider wiring the pumps to be manually switched, but have a bilge water alarm to warn you of ingress. Alternatively you could fit a water.oil separator in the outlet pipe but they do costs a bit.

 

Tim

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One issue with auto-pumps is that oily, greasy water will be pumped out into the cut.

 

 

I'm not sure why that would bother anyone? After all, most canal boaters pump grease into the canal every time they grease their stern gland - although some would have you believe the grease just magically "disappears" or is infinitely absorbed by the packing. (Less polluting alternatives are available.)

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I'm not sure why that would bother anyone? After all, most canal boaters pump grease into the canal every time they grease their stern gland - although some would have you believe the grease just magically "disappears" or is infinitely absorbed by the packing. (Less polluting alternatives are available.)

Surely we should all be as responsible as possible where pollutants are concerned? Notwithstanding there are fines if you are caught polluting waterways.

 

I accept your point about the stern gland grease but this should be minimal, and there are alternative stern-tube designs nowadays.

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Surely we should all be as responsible as possible where pollutants are concerned? Notwithstanding there are fines if you are caught polluting waterways.

 

I accept your point about the stern gland grease but this should be minimal, and there are alternative stern-tube designs nowadays.

Yes, my point about why anyone would be bothered was meant ironically. Of course we should all be responsible.

 

While it's true that each turn of a stern gland greaser puts minimal amounts of grease into the water, since they get turned a couple of times a day (or more) on thousands of boats, over time that amounts to a lot of grease.

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One issue with auto-pumps is that oily, greasy water will be pumped out into the cut.

 

You might consider wiring the pumps to be manually switched, but have a bilge water alarm to warn you of ingress. Alternatively you could fit a water.oil separator in the outlet pipe but they do costs a bit.

 

Tim

I put my float switch on some packing so that should it turn on the bilge pump it will turn off with about 2" of water remaining. So any grease that falls from the stern gland- which floats - does not get pumped into the cut.

Edited by Chewbacka
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I concur Blackrose....we're not on opposite sides of this argument. smile.png

In the UK on inland waterways boats that comply with the BSS the bilge pumps don't draw oily water from the engine, The engine has to have ether a separate sealed area or drip tray to catch any spilt oil.

edd for spilling

Edited by ditchcrawler
  • Greenie 1
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