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traditional ropework


KarlosMacronius

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Hello,

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction for a good source of information related to traditional ropework including both the decorative stuff for tillers/rudders etc. and more practical lashing for hold covers and fenders etc. and possibly info on the evolution of practical to decorative.

 

Though I'm sure that there was variation from steerer to steerer I'm struggling to find much at all online (aside from a descriptive text page on canaljunction.com) especially concerning practical lashings.

Most pictures (new and old) are from fairly far away to get the whole boat in and as such are not detailed enough for good analysiis of any roperwork going on...

 

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.

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Is this any help?

 

No it definitely isn't, . . . unless you particularly want an ugly, un-stylish mess like that.

It looks awful, and doesn't doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to the 'swansneck' and 'top plait' that used to be found on the butty's 'ellum'.

Also, missing from the ropework that was normal on most working boats during the last years of their existence is the 'bottom plait', the 'kicking strap' and 'ellum fender', all made from well used and stretched, 5 or 6 pound cable lay cotton line.

Edited by Tony Dunkley
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No it definitely isn't, . . . unless you particularly want an ugly, un-stylish mess like that.

It looks awful, and doesn't doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to the 'swansneck' and 'top plait' that used to be found on the butty's 'ellum'.

Also, missing from the ropework that was normal on most working boats during the last years of their existence 'bottom plait', the 'kicking strap' and 'ellum fender', all made from well used and stretched, 5 or 6 pound cable lay cotton line.

 

What was the 'swans neck' for Tony?

 

Richard

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I'd agree. Someone has obviously spent a long time making that, but it is just wrong.

 

It's got most of the examples in a 'how to tie decorative ropework' book. It's a nice piece of work, in the wrong place

 

Richard

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This is how Charlie Atkins tied his side sheets on Mendip.

 

 

All the woven canvas, with one exception, that was used for covering up narrowboats was invariably known as 'cloths' rather than sheets, . . ie. deck cloth, sidecloths and topcloths. The exception was the 'tippet(s)'; a strip of canvas a few inches wider than the top planks, that went along the top planks, over the topcloths and under the topstrings.

  • Greenie 1
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What was the 'swans neck' for Tony?

 

Richard

 

The ropework is all functional, albeit in a decorative way. The swansneck would prevent the rudder blade getting caught up under some projection, but I have no evidence of that being its raison d'etre and never had a situation which would substantiate it. Also I've seen photos of an elum with a horse's tail attached which would hardly act as a fender, and that was obviously purely decorative - possibly in memory of a favourite animal.

 

Tam

Edited by Tam & Di
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Des Pawsons Knot Craft is really good although a little hard for a beginner to follow in the later stages I used it successfully in conjunction with the RYA book mentioned below
Creative Ropecraft by the late great Stuart Grainger is the best book for explaining I have come across in several years of knot tying.

The RYA Knots Splices & Ropework is good for basics and has a decorative section at the back which includes the pattern for doing Cabin strings from Ken Nelson and is really easy to follow.

For completeness The Ashley Book of Knots..not cheap but can be found online..I got mine in the Autumn at Foxton in the lovely gift/food shop at the bottom of the locks..hard to follow but wonderful to look through.

You quite often see ropework books from Geoffrey Budworth around and online..I have found them the hardest to follow and would steer clear of them!

 

Hope that helps..good luck..& if you want anymore info on books/supplies etc PM me :)

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Although those books are good for decorative ropework they will easily lead you into the sort of error shown in koukouvagia's post. The first stop needs to be careful study of photos of working craft to see what is/was actually used, and only then to see how to tie it.

 

Tam

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It depends what you think of as an error...

 

I would imagine ropework would be an ever changing thing to suit your purposes..even in the 'old' days of working boats..

 

And I would defy any beginner to tie the lovely knots in the pictures above..you have to get the basics first and then go on to create masterpieces if that is what you want...and that is where the books come in..

 

It is lovely to keep the traditions alive but surely they came about through years of evolving and each crafter having his or her own style..it would be a shame if we now all got stuck just making the same thing and not evolving because of some notion that there is the 'proper' way and that is the ONLY way..

  • Greenie 1
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It depends what you think of as an error...

 

I would imagine ropework would be an ever changing thing to suit your purposes..even in the 'old' days of working boats..

 

And I would defy any beginner to tie the lovely knots in the pictures above..you have to get the basics first and then go on to create masterpieces if that is what you want...and that is where the books come in..

 

It is lovely to keep the traditions alive but surely they came about through years of evolving and each crafter having his or her own style..it would be a shame if we now all got stuck just making the same thing and not evolving because of some notion that there is the 'proper' way and that is the ONLY way..

 

And the other side of that is canal boats are being fitted with beautifully executed ropework from New England traditions - because they are copied from books. The issue is that the books become the 'proper' way of doing things with the original methods discarded

 

Yes, be creative, yes, be individual - don't pretend they are anything but whimsy though and not recreations of traditional ropework

 

Richard

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Who said anything about pretending to be anything else?...

 

And how do you know the ways of tying in the books are not the traditional way?..

as far as I know there is only one way to tie a diamond knot and a star knot. etc etc ...so I think it is a wrong assumption to say the original methods are discarded....

sure they can be used in different ways in finished items but as I said before you need the basics for tying before you can make anything.

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The basics are fine, it's the created objects like that swans neck that are not

 

I decided not to put up a list of books, including my personal favourite 'The MarlinSpike Sailor' because it's beautiful, seductive and full of nice projects. I've made some of them and adapted others for things on our boat. I have no problem with that

 

On the other hand, I have seen the same projects turning up on canal boats where a different style of object is more appropriate. But there are no instructions for those, you have to work them out for yourself. The swans neck above has a lot of techniques in it, it's a tour de force in knot tying. It just doesn't belong on the back of a canal boat. The one on Romsey sort of makes sense as a fender with an engorgement in the middle and having three decorative (and disposable) turks head knots to bulk it out

 

Yes - get a good book on the basic knots, preferably one that you can understand. I have several that describe the same knot in different ways with different illustrations. I can learn from some of them, others I can now understand as I know how to tie the knot in the first place. At least one book I have been given by someone who has given up with it because they can't make sense of the instructions. I'd recommend finding some books and flipping through them to see what works for a beginner

 

Richard

 

Some day, I shall find an excuse to splice a length of twelve strand sennit to a piece of anchor chain

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And the other side of that is canal boats are being fitted with beautifully executed ropework from New England traditions - because they are copied from books. The issue is that the books become the 'proper' way of doing things with the original methods discarded

 

Yes, be creative, yes, be individual - don't pretend they are anything but whimsy though and not recreations of traditional ropework

 

Richard

 

 

Although those books are good for decorative ropework they will easily lead you into the sort of error shown in koukouvagia's post. The first stop needs to be careful study of photos of working craft to see what is/was actually used, and only then to see how to tie it.

 

Tam

 

 

Some nice work here on Auriga and Romsey:

 

gallery_5000_522_186688.jpg

 

The ropework on the butty's ellum in this photo of Laurence's say's it all really, . . . it's smart, elegant and, with some minor variations personal to whoever made it, it follows the standard pattern both in the way it's made and how it's positioned and fitted.

The 'kicking strap' or 'jumping strap', which stopped the ellum being knocked up out of the cups, is made by starting at each end with what amounts to the first half tuck of an eye splice with three very long strands which are then wall-knotted back along towards the middle of the piece of line with the ends tapered and tucked in the same way as a splice can be finished off.

The swansneck is also started with the first half tuck of an eye splice, having first unlayed the piece of line for about 2'' less than half it's length. After putting two or three turns of temporary whipping over the half tuck and unlaying the other half of the line, this is then followed with a succession of crown knots using all six strands. Sometimes the crown knotting continued for the whole way along over the thickened portion halfway along, but in the one shown on 'Romsey' the thickened section is wall knotted with all six strands instead. The thickened section is formed with a short length of rounded Ash, tapered down towards the ends, inside the crown or wall knots. The three strand turksheads halfway down the swansneck are made from single strands of the cable layed cottonline, and where there were two upper and lower ones positioned close to the ends of the tapered Ash peg they were pinned in place with small nails to stop them slipping out of place. After continuing with another length of crown knotting, the six strands were separated into two three's and layed up back into 3-strand line tails again for about a foot length, and these tails were rolled into a small, tight 'wheel' which was pinned with some small nails to each side of the last board in the 'ellum' where it sticks up above the 'floats'.

The top and bottom 'plaits' on the top of the ramshead of the 'ellum' were also pinned in place with small nails, to keep them parallel with the rounded off top of the 'ramshead' which rose slightly towards it's after face.

Everything was kept clean and white by scrubbing with cut water and 'powder', . . . or 'Vim', as the manufacturers called it.

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Love it! That's a great description Tony. You can see the tacks in the lowest strand of the plaits on Romsey, they are on the chamfer at the back

 

As you say, it's smart, elegant, sufficient and there for a purpose. Presumably the plait on the ellum is to protect the painted name when it is laid on the cabin roof

 

Richard

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Right, that's narrow boats sorted.

 

I'd very much appreciate similarly authoritative advice in relation to "fat" boats - particularly Leeds and Liverpool short boats.

 

Present day practice seems to be inventive combinations of old tyres, with various additions of rope or chain .

 

I've read that some boaters on the L&L made it a matter of pride not to use fenders at all, regarding them as a sign of poor boating skills - but I haven't enough time left to reach that level of skill!

 

David.

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Love it! That's a great description Tony. You can see the tacks in the lowest strand of the plaits on Romsey, they are on the chamfer at the back

 

As you say, it's smart, elegant, sufficient and there for a purpose. Presumably the plait on the ellum is to protect the painted name when it is laid on the cabin roof

 

Richard

possibly to stop water running down and rotting out the socket

Edited by BMC problems
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