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Travel Power on Beta 43.


Alway Swilby

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The price of a Travelpower from Beta is over 3 grand. What is it in them that justifies this price.

Part of the cost is the very decent mounting for the additional alternator and additional polyvee crankshaft pulley. Other than that it's a high voltage alternator and box of tricks to invert that to 230v AC. Oh and of course a chunk of profit for Dometic and another chunk of profit for Beta!

 

I'm not sure that the question can be answered but perhaps a better one would be "is there a cheaper option" and/or "is it worth over 3 grand"?

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Well, the alrenative I'm thinking of is a 24v boat with a 100 amp 24v domestic alternator (extra cost from Beta of 300 pounds or so) with at 3kva inverter (which I would have anyway). In theory the alternator should be able to produce 2.4 kw and thereby power the washing machine without draining the batteries too much.

Edited by Alway Swilby
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Part of the cost is the very decent mounting for the additional alternator and additional polyvee crankshaft pulley. Other than that it's a high voltage alternator and box of tricks to invert that to 230v AC. Oh and of course a chunk of profit for Dometic and another chunk of profit for Beta!

 

I'm not sure that the question can be answered but perhaps a better one would be "is there a cheaper option" and/or "is it worth over 3 grand"?

its an alternator nick so its ac already and probably 230v. you can buy these from machine mart for not huge money [230vac generators] its the mountings and development that must cost

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The alternator / inverter solution is certainly going to work. Don't forget that the washing machine only uses a lot of power (perhaps 2kw or so) during the wash cycle when it's heating the water. Thereafter it won't use much and so, depending on your expected usage, it probably wouldn't be necessary to run the engine the whole time, but perhaps only for the first 30 mins or so. On the other hand you will be using the alternator at max power for quite a while and they do get very hot. This might impact on long term reliability especially if not given a good supply of cool air.

 

By contrast the high voltage Travelpower alternator will run much cooler and of course at a lower % of its rating. On the other hand if you are reliant on the TP it means you have to run the engine all the time the washer is on.

 

We have both a 2kw alternator / 2.5 kW Combi inverter, and a 3.5kw Travelpower which is of course the most flexible solution, gives alternative sources of mains power (ie should one fail) but is of course the more expensive option.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that the TP's power is not the best for electronic washing machines. Ours sometimes refuses to start on the TP so we start it on the inverter and then switch to TP once it starts to fill.

its an alternator nick so its ac already and probably 230v. you can buy these from machine mart for not huge money [230vac generators] its the mountings and development that must cost

Not really. It starts out as AC of variable frequency. It is converted to DC (within the alternator, I think) and then back to AC at 50Hz regardless of engine rpm. If you just got an AC generator you would have to run the engine at a certain rpm to get 50Hz which is not appropriate for a propulsion engine.

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The alternator / inverter solution is certainly going to work. Don't forget that the washing machine only uses a lot of power (perhaps 2kw or so) during the wash cycle when it's heating the water. Thereafter it won't use much and so, depending on your expected usage, it probably wouldn't be necessary to run the engine the whole time, but perhaps only for the first 30 mins or so. On the other hand you will be using the alternator at max power for quite a while and they do get very hot. This might impact on long term reliability especially if not given a good supply of cool air.

By contrast the high voltage Travelpower alternator will run much cooler and of course at a lower % of its rating. On the other hand if you are reliant on the TP it means you have to run the engine all the time the washer is on.

We have both a 2kw alternator / 2.5 kW Combi inverter, and a 3.5kw Travelpower which is of course the most flexible solution, gives alternative sources of mains power (ie should one fail) but is of course the more expensive option.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the TP's power is not the best for electronic washing machines. Ours sometimes refuses to start on the TP so we start it on the inverter and then switch to TP once it starts to fill.

The only thing I'd add to a balanced post is that it is one more thing to go wrong and indeed one more belt in the way when you need to change the main engine belt. We had one on our first boat but didn't bother this time and haven't missed it.

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The travel power is a superb bit of kit, we are on our second boat with one. The strong point with this kit is that whilst the main engine is running and the 12 volt bank is being charged and boat moved it is all done at once. If you just had the inverter to say do your washing machine what size alternators would be needed to power the washing machine by the inverter and put a large charge into the domestic bank?

As a liveaboard of many years standing in my opinion the travelpower cannot be bettered, it was one of the main reasons I bought this boat. I do have and all singing and dancing inverter but wouldnt dream of powering anything sizeable with it whilst I have a travelpower.

 

Tim

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Had a T. Pack when we had our boat built, 2005 , Beta 43 ect . Had the t.p replaced twice ( under guarantee ) when the last one failed , sent back to be re- conditioned twice , new loom , new motherboard. When it failed the third time 3 years later we had another combi and another 110 alternator fitted . Expensive but sorted . Nothing but trouble for us . Bunny

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My understanding of the TP that the alternator is produce high frequency and high variable voltage AC.

 

Keith

I'm not sure whether it has any sort of regulation ie variable field current. I suppose it must do but is it regulated from within the alternator, or from a regulator with the TP box? Not sure, do you know?

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The Travel Pack is, as said, a good bit of kit.

 

For those worried about another belt to replace, how often do you have a broken belt?

Now let me answer, probably never, especially if your engine is serviced properly and belts replaced every few years and as for dificulty, I replaced all my belts on my Beta 50 this year and it took me 20 minutes.

 

i wonder how many of us keep a spare alternator in the tool kit?

 

 

The Travel Pack will be your backup should your main alternator fail, looking after you needs until the time your Domestic alternator is replaced.

What price that when your miles away from a boat yard!

 

OK, they may have had problems in the past, but having identified those problems, Beta and Travel pack have cured them!

 

I for one wouldn't be without mine!

 

Nipper

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if it's anything like my (now dead - no spares) Sea Power, then the alternator is just a straight 3-phase alternator.

The control box deals with the variable frequency and variable voltage by rectifying the result to DC.

The remainder of the unit is 'just' an inverter - but as its source voltage is around its output voltage there are no high current electronics it should be more reliable than a 'conventional' inverter.

 

I had discussions with that-nice-Mr.-Cox some years ago, and he said there had been many troubles with the early TP controllers, but (the then) later ones were more reliable.

That may be why some on here say 'loadsa rubbish' and other 'fantastic'

 

Extra belts and pulleys - especially now the former are now poly-v and the latter aluminium are much, much more reliable than conventional V-belts.

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The Travel Pack is, as said, a good bit of kit.

 

For those worried about another belt to replace, how often do you have a broken belt?

Now let me answer, probably never, especially if your engine is serviced properly and belts replaced every few years and as for dificulty, I replaced all my belts on my Beta 50 this year and it took me 20 minutes.

 

i wonder how many of us keep a spare alternator in the tool kit?

 

 

The Travel Pack will be your backup should your main alternator fail, looking after you needs until the time your Domestic alternator is replaced.

What price that when your miles away from a boat yard!

 

OK, they may have had problems in the past, but having identified those problems, Beta and Travel pack have cured them!

 

 

I for one wouldn't be without mine!

 

Nipper

Any idea what they identified and when? If someone's looking at a boat with one in then it would be good to know if the TP was pre or post problematic?

Edited by Markinaboat
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I'm not sure whether it has any sort of regulation ie variable field current. I suppose it must do but is it regulated from within the alternator, or from a regulator with the TP box? Not sure, do you know?

 

We have the old black box version and we love it

Its a standard Bosch alternator rewound with many turns of thinner wire to produce a higher voltage. It makes 3 phase AC that goes direct to the black box via the armoured cable (for safety because its high voltage) The rectifier diodes are in the black box, not the alternator.

The field (rotor) is still used to regulate the output voltage but this is all controlled by the black box. There are no electronics in the alternator itself.

We leave it turned on always so when the engine runs we have mains, its that simple.

Have had just one (spectacular) failure in 8 years when a bearing collapsed. Partly my fault as I ignored (or mis-read) the warning signs.

It needs routine bearing replacement every few thousand hours, and the dust removing from the fan in the black box fan every year, otherwise its trouble free.

 

Compared to a big alternator and big inverter its swings and roundabouts. Given a choice I think I would still prefer the Travelpower but if I had a 24volt boat it might swing in favour of the big alternator.

 

.............Dave

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As mentioned in previous threads there are huge efficiency advantages in having a high (250-300) volt alternator even though its output is rectified to DC first. Clue is in the main I2R stator losses.

 

You only need to compare at the size of a 3.5 kW TP or Dynawatt alternator with the equivalent power 300 amp 12 volt alternator.

 

Having said that, if you already have a big alternator, battery bank and inverter though it makes sense to employ those.

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Any idea what they identified and when? If someone's looking at a boat with one in then it would be good to know if the TP was pre or post problematic?

 

I could be wrong but I think there are three versions, early black box, later black box and modern silver box.

I think later black box is the most robust. Modern silver box is generally fine but can get very upset with some modern switched mode power supplies (phone chargers).

Replaced belt when we got the boat, now done 8 years, 8000 hours, still looks good, but think I will replace it soon.

Belt gives out just a hint of squeal when the washing machine heater is on. Its a Beta JD3 so has lots of torsional vibration but TP copes OK.

 

...............Dave

Edited by dmr
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A thought based on the very similar technology of inverter/generators. Could the electrical side of one with a faulty engine be adapted and employed driven by the main engine?

 

Clearly the auto-throttle would not be used but it seems viable with suitable pulley gearing, whilst giving large cost savings compared with the relatively low production and expensive TP etc.

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Any idea what they identified and when? If someone's looking at a boat with one in then it would be good to know if the TP was pre or post problematic?

 

My first one had a black box and never needed anything doing to it. My present one is a silver box and so far..................its brill.

 

Tim

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A thought based on the very similar technology of inverter/generators. Could the electrical side of one with a faulty engine be adapted and employed driven by the main engine?

 

Clearly the auto-throttle would not be used but it seems viable with suitable pulley gearing, whilst giving large cost savings compared with the relatively low production and expensive TP etc.

 

?que? do you mean faulty electronics??

The alternator is 3-phase so you'd be wasting 2/3 of its capacity (I'm sure some will correct me...)

 

There used to be a boat in Pyrford marina who did something similar - he had a single phase alternator on his engine, which he clutched in (well it was more a matter of fitting a belt each time he needed it), then ran the engine at the required speed to do 'whatever'.

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?que? do you mean faulty electronics??

The alternator is 3-phase so you'd be wasting 2/3 of its capacity (I'm sure some will correct me...)

 

I don't believe that's what he meant. I think he was suggesting removing the alternator mechanism along with the electronics from a genny and transplanting them onto the boat's propulsion engine. I've not stripped a suitcase genny myself but I'd take a guess that it would be completely infeasible.

 

Tony

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?que? do you mean faulty electronics??

The alternator is 3-phase so you'd be wasting 2/3 of its capacity (I'm sure some will correct me...)

 

There used to be a boat in Pyrford marina who did something similar - he had a single phase alternator on his engine, which he clutched in (well it was more a matter of fitting a belt each time he needed it), then ran the engine at the required speed to do 'whatever'.

 

Sorry but you totally mis-understood. Both the TravelPower and generator/inverters employ a three phase alternator with output rectified by diodes similar to an automotive one, but providing a much higher DC voltage (250-300). This then feeds an inverter allowing the unit it to provide 230 volt 50Hz AC output efficiently and irrespective of alternator/engine speed.

 

It was my (I thought unsure.png) clear suggestion that the whole of the electrics/electronics be removed from a generator/inverter with just a faulty engine, and employed to provide constant AC, with the alternator pulley driven from the main boat engine.

 

I don't believe that's what he meant. I think he was suggesting removing the alternator mechanism along with the electronics from a genny and transplanting them onto the boat's propulsion engine. I've not stripped a suitcase genny myself but I'd take a guess that it would be completely infeasible.

 

Tony

 

Would be interested to know why you guess it wouldn't work given enough mechanical ingenuity.

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Sorry but you totally mis-understood. Both the TravelPower and generator/inverters employ a three phase alternator with output rectified by diodes similar to an automotive one, but providing a much higher DC voltage (250-300). This then feeds an inverter allowing the unit it to provide 230 volt 50Hz AC output efficiently and irrespective of alternator/engine speed.

 

It was my (I thought unsure.png) clear suggestion that the whole of the electrics/electronics be removed from a generator/inverter with just a faulty engine, and employed to provide constant AC, with the alternator pulley driven from the main boat engine.

 

Would be interested to know why you guess it wouldn't work given enough mechanical ingenuity.

 

 

Aha! I understand - that sounds a bright idea!!

Could be a logistic challenge.

I have no suggestions.

I'm out

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Would be interested to know why you guess it wouldn't work given enough mechanical ingenuity.

 

The sheer amount of mechanical ingenuity is all.

 

As I said, I've never dismantled a suitcase genny but I'm pretty sure that the alternator isn't a separate item driven by the engine, but rather an integral part of the engine.

 

Tony

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Sorry but you totally mis-understood. Both the TravelPower and generator/inverters employ a three phase alternator with output rectified by diodes similar to an automotive one, but providing a much higher DC voltage (250-300). This then feeds an inverter allowing the unit it to provide 230 volt 50Hz AC output efficiently and irrespective of alternator/engine speed.

 

It was my (I thought :unsure:) clear suggestion that the whole of the electrics/electronics be removed from a generator/inverter with just a faulty engine, and employed to provide constant AC, with the alternator pulley driven from the main boat engine.

 

Would be interested to know why you guess it wouldn't work given enough mechanical ingenuity.

It is of course theoretically possible but I think these suitcase type gennys (if that's what you mean) have the alternator integral with the engine casings. It is not really a seperate thing driven, eg, by a belt or chain. So I'm sure it is possible but as Tony says, with a lack of attachment points and probably a gaping hole at one end where the engine should be, I think it would be very difficult. Whatever bearings it might have (if not reliant on the crankshaft bearings) would be designed only to control the rotation, and not to take the side loads that would occur with belt or chain drive.

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