How can boaters become CRT's priority customer?

[tillergirl]

Nope. That's a complete and utter waste of time.

Nope. That's just a lazy answer.

We should be constantly on his back. Sitting back and simply being "prudent" shows nothing but perhaps apathy.

Don't agree....constantly crying wolf gets you nowhere. Have you actually met the him? Edited January 30, 2016 by tillergirl

[jenlyn]

Don't agree....constantly crying wolf gets you nowhere. Have you actually met the him?

Yes, I've met most of them. Listened to all the propaganda, even got stupidly involved in believing some of it.

Then I step off my boat and look around me.

 

Actually, what on earth are you talking about "crying wolf"?

Edited January 30, 2016 by jenlyn

[waterworks]

There's discussions ongoing in some quarters about effective resistance to evictions by police/CRT for the purpose of a "rent" strike type of protest. Very high risk for those who's boats are involved but it would make the current CRT approach hugely expensive.

Yes, your quarters, your not happy unless your protesting about something, try not to smash things this time eh !

[tillergirl]

What I'm saying is if you constantly complain there comes a time when people stop listening and then when you have a genuine need its less likely that you get listened to.That is a fact of life. And since you haven't answered my question i will accept it as read that you havent met him. We have and spoke to him at length and we were left with the impression that he's a boaters person. Willing to listen and learn.

Edited January 30, 2016 by tillergirl

[StarUKKiwi]

As a newly painted rep; may I say that I had an email from Matthew Symons copying in Mike Grimes welcoming me to the role and saying he wanted a meeting by the end of February. Unfortunately, my hospital stay may hold this up as I am likely to be in until nearly the end of February, this may be postponed slightly. I hope I am out for the first Council Meeting on 8 March.

I

[tillergirl]

As a newly painted rep; may I say that I had an email from Matthew Symons copying in Mike Grimes welcoming me to the role and saying he wanted a meeting by the end of February. Unfortunately, my hospital stay may hold this up as I am likely to be in until nearly the end of February, this may be postponed slightly. I hope I am out for the first Council Meeting on 8 March.

I

I hope so too. Get well soon

[jenlyn]

What I'm saying is is you constantly complain there comes a time when people stop listening and then when you have a genuine need its less likely that you get listened to.That is a fact of life. And since you haven't answered my question i will accept it as read that you havent met him. We have ans spokemto him at length and we were left with the impression that he's a boaters person. Willing to listen and learn.

I answered your question, that I had most of them, perhaps I should have specifically stated "including the new head of boating".

 

It's probably thanks to people drawing attention to problems on the canals, that people like yourself can still boat on them.

I'm sorry if you see it as "constantly complaining".

Tell me, what do you feel Crt should be doing to keep the navigation to its primary use? What part would you be prepared to take on to ensure they continue as a navigation?

[tillergirl]

I answered your question, that I had most of them, perhaps I should have specifically stated "including the new head of boating".

 

It's probably thanks to people drawing attention to problems on the canals, that people like yourself can still boat on them.

I'm sorry if you see it as "constantly complaining".

Tell me, what do you feel Crt should be doing to keep the navigation to its primary use? What part would you be prepared to take on to ensure they continue as a navigation?

 

We are doing our part. CRT sees traders as ambassadors of their waterways. We are quite happy to keep promoting the waterways in this way.

[jenlyn]

We are doing our part. CRT sees traders as ambassadors of their waterways. We are quite happy to keep promoting the waterways in this way.

Ah ok. Fair enough.

When I was a teenager, I used to play rugby. I was rather good at "selling a dummy" evidently. Perhaps you have heard of the term?

Anyway, CRT are also good at "selling a dummy", and evidently, it seems some are still fooled.

 

Just remember, you live on your boat, believe it or not, the future is just around the corner. Maybe time to start looking after your investment eh? Don't rely too heavily on others doing it for you.

[tillergirl]

Thank you for your advice......I'm sure we will manage just fine

[kris88]

It's very apparent from the replies in this thread, why boaters won't become CRT's priority. They like arguing amongst themselves too much.

 

Regards kris

[pete.i]

It's very apparent from the replies in this thread, why boaters won't become CRT's priority. They like arguing amongst themselves too much.

 

Regards kris

Well, and I am aware of what I said in my previous post, the only ones that argue amongst themselves and more specifically, the only ones we see generally arguing amongst themselves are on this forum. Lets be perfectly plain about this. this forum is tiny tiny part of the boating community country wide. I think the vast majority of the complainers are on this forum. That is is not a bad thing but if the only ones who do decide to voice up are only here then the overall vast majority of boaters couldn't give a flying fig or even know what C&RT are doing or not doing. I have to say that I do find that a sad fact of life. But then I am off the waterways now and my boat will be up for sale later on this year I am not paying C&RT any of my hard earned so why should I worry. I have to say that whilst I don't, and haven't, complained much about what C&RT are or are not doing over the years I do not like the way it is headed and my solution for me is to say bye bye I will find something else to do. I am lucky in that I do not live on my boat. I do feel for those that do because they do not have an alternative.

[bassplayer]

It's very apparent from the replies in this thread, why boaters won't become CRT's priority. They like arguing amongst themselves too much.

Regards kris

Well I suppose it might be case of nothing happen until a large number of areas become unnavigable again. Then we'll see how passionate we all are about it. As regards the arguing, for some reason you see very little on the cut!

[kris88]

Well, and I am aware of what I said in my previous post, the only ones that argue amongst themselves and more specifically, the only ones we see generally arguing amongst themselves are on this forum. Lets be perfectly plain about this. this forum is tiny tiny part of the boating community country wide. I think the vast majority of the complainers are on this forum. That is is not a bad thing but if the only ones who do decide to voice up are only here then the overall vast majority of boaters couldn't give a flying fig or even know what C&RT are doing or not doing. I have to say that I do find that a sad fact of life. But then I am off the waterways now and my boat will be up for sale later on this year I am not paying C&RT any of my hard earned so why should I worry. I have to say that whilst I don't, and haven't, complained much about what C&RT are or are not doing over the years I do not like the way it is headed and my solution for me is to say bye bye I will find something else to do. I am lucky in that I do not live on my boat. I do feel for those that do because they do not have an alternative.

Whilst I don't agree with running away, at least you seem to be able to see the direction the waterways are taking under CRT. Most of the people on here still seem to be in ostrich mode, rather than addressing the problems just blame the others(insert here the group you dislike most, livaboards, cc'ers shiny boaters etc.)

 

Regards kris

Well I suppose it might be case of nothing happen until a large number of areas become unnavigable again. Then we'll see how passionate we all are about it. As regards the arguing, for some reason you see very little on the cut!

Unfortunately I think your right, it's going to have to get worse before it gets better.

 

Regards kris

[pete.i]

Whilst I don't agree with running away, at least you seem to be able to see the direction the waterways are taking under CRT. Most of the people on here still seem to be in ostrich mode, rather than addressing the problems just blame the others(insert here the group you dislike most, livaboards, cc'ers shiny boaters etc.)

 

Regards kris

 

 

Well it's my solution for me. But there is another way of looking at that and that is if everyone ran away from it and the huge amounts of money that C&RT rake in from boaters were to cease or even become greatly depleted then, make no mistake, they would sit up and listen. Again I stress that that option is not open to a huge number of boaters. Having said that I think there are enough who are able to do that to make a huge difference to C&RT's income and hitting them in the pocket where it hurts would be productive I would think. But of course there is the underlying possibility that C&RT don't actually want any boaters on their waters and if everyone did "run away" that could well be something that C&RT might celebrate. I most certainly get the impression that C&RT see boaters as a huge pain in the backside but there isn't a lot they can do about them, at the moment.

[kris88]

We all have to do what is right for us. So I don't blame you, only you know what is best for you.

It will be a shame if more and more people just leave the cut . I'm sure CRT would prefere it if there where less boats.

 

Regards kris

[Guest]

We all have to do what is right for us. So I don't blame you, only you know what is best for you.

It will be a shame if more and more people just leave the cut . I'm sure CRT would prefere it if there where less boats.

 

Regards kris

 

It is worth pointing out that people leaving the cut does not necessarily mean less boats. Our boat is on it's third owners (we were it's second) and has been based in various parts of the system including the K&A, The T&M, the North East waterways and now back in the Midlands I believe.

 

It has a good few years left in it yet too.

[bassplayer]

It is worth pointing out that people leaving the cut does not necessarily mean less boats. Our boat is on it's third owners (we were it's second) and has been based in various parts of the system including the K&A, The T&M, the North East waterways and now back in the Midlands I believe.

 

It has a good few years left in it yet too.

Yes, it's still a big mystery where all these boats are going considering they keep making more. Maybe we'll find out if they start dredging some more...

[kris88]

Yes, it's still a big mystery where all these boats are going considering they keep making more. Maybe we'll find out if they start dredging some more...

They are all going to London to be moored on water points, I thought everybody knew that.

 

Regards kris

[rgreg]

Personally, I have seen no evidence to suggest that CRT are not prioritising boating; their response to incidents in the North last year such as breaches, and this year to repair flood damage (which they have publicly declared is a current priority), has not seemed to lack urgency. Perhaps there is evidence of different priorities elsewhere, but I have found the CRT North West region to be communicative with boaters and issues raised have been addressed. To be fair, the way some boaters speak to the CRT representatives at meetings I wouldn't blame them if they had closed their ears to them. The main contention that I am aware of is against increased enforcement and this is from the group who want to use the canals on their terms and not within the rules. As some have said, I think the boating community have a problem speaking with a coherent voice as people have different agendas.

[cuthound]

Personally, I have seen no evidence to suggest that CRT are not prioritising boating; their response to incidents in the North last year such as breaches, and this year to repair flood damage (which they have publicly declared is a current priority), has not seemed to lack urgency. Perhaps there is evidence of different priorities elsewhere, but I have found the CRT North West region to be communicative with boaters and issues raised have been addressed. To be fair, the way some boaters speak to the CRT representatives at meetings I wouldn't blame them if they had closed their ears to them. The main contention that I am aware of is against increased enforcement and this is from the group who want to use the canals on their terms and not within the rules. As some have said, I think the boating community have a problem speaking with a coherent voice as people have different agendas.

Sensible well balanced post. Have a greenie.

 

I hate to think how those who think the waterways are in poor condition now would have coped in the late 60's 5o mid 70's.

 

The waterways aren't in such condition as it was in the mid 80's, but is a long way from the derelection of the 60's.

[kris88]

The waterways aren't in such condition as it was in the mid 80's, but is a long way from the derelection of the 60's.

Surely it's better to stop the decline, before they get that bad again. Or should we let the network go to rack and ruin, to prove we can cope?

 

Regards kris

[Jerra]

As usual I am out on a limb on this one.

 

If I were in charge of CRT (now there is a terrifying thought for some of you) I am afraid for the first few years I would be doing more or less what CRT are doing. They have been charged as I understand it with making the system accessible as a national leisure resource. They know boaters are committed to the canals and will keep paying a license. However many of the rest of the nation aren't terribly aware of canals and their value.

 

I would try to spread the message and get more people aware and using the canals in the early years. The advantages of this are a lever with government when they are trying to cut funding (as they undoubtedly will as years go by) more people realising they can use and enjoy the canals the more "friends" (OK I would prefer a membership system but friends = an income stream however small)

 

As rgreg points out in #45 whilst not doing everything boaters want (how could they you couldn't get boaters to agree what needed to be done) they certainly aren't walking away from breaches etc.

 

Having spread the appeal of the canals to a wider "audience" they can then start to deal with things on a more equal basis. I firmly believe that it is possible to have a canal system which is "all things to all men" (and women). There are ways to make the towpath usable to dog walkers, families cyclists and fishermen. The canal of course can be maintained and who knows even improved.

 

It will be even more unpopular than my views above when I say I believe the enforcement process is part of the process I am outlining. It isn't possible to manage a system as large as the canals without control of ALL users which I think will come eventually. Currently boaters are the ones which are registered and therefore easy to target. Discipline s required from the users of any organisation.

 

Right I have got my tin hat on, sandbags out to shield from the blast and flame proof overalls. I will retire to the bunker.

[MtB]

Sensible well balanced post. Have a greenie.

 

I hate to think how those who think the waterways are in poor condition now would have coped in the late 60's 5o mid 70's.

 

The waterways aren't in such condition as it was in the mid 80's, but is a long way from the derelection of the 60's.

 

 

This is my impression too. as I find them, the waterways are in as good a general condition as they've ever been. Yes there are a mountain of problems but I reckon that mountain is smaller now than its ever been since the sixties.

 

The problem with fixing stuff and making the cut ever easier to navigate, is that it raises boaters' expectations. No matter how easy it becomes to navigate the system there will always be demands for it to be made even easier.

[alan_fincher]

This is my impression too. as I find them, the waterways are in as good a general condition as they've ever been. Yes there are a mountain of problems but I reckon that mountain is smaller now than its ever been since the sixties.

 

The problem with fixing stuff and making the cut ever easier to navigate, is that it raises boaters' expectations. No matter how easy it becomes to navigate the system there will always be demands for it to be made even easier.

As an example, have you tried coming down the GU towards London recently?

 

I cannot agree with your assessment, Mike. Much of it is visibly far worse than it was when I returned to boat ownership about 12 years ago.

 

We now have locks, and lock approaches with long lengths of coping stones fallen away, bollards ripped from the ground, and large hollows in tow-paths you can see running water at the bottom of.

 

Some short pounds are now more like bits of the BCN, regularly going empty overnight, and needing refilling before you can proceed.

 

Ten years ago, I don't recall being asked to pull over and wait an hour or two whilst BW/CRT operatives got enough water into a flight to make it operable.

 

If you are an HNBC member you will know that that normally quite conservative organisation has been trying to raise the profile of the deteriorating state of at least this major waterway.

 

Currently I think people having strong concerns in these areas are the realists, and those who think it is largely OK, are probably ignoring much of the evidence.

 

I of course say this as someone who boated regularly in the 1970s, so I'm very aware what the (often very unsatisfactory) state of things was back then? However is it a valid comparison to go back that far? Do we really want a situation where a major structural failure causes a popular canal to get closed as a through route for maybe 4 years?

 

Surely a far more pertinent comparison is to 5 or 10 years ago - in my view, the Grand Union (South), at least, has declined a lot over that period.