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b0atman

By b0atman
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Martin Megson Rising Star

Martin MegsonDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

The following extract from the BSS site might explain it.

 

 

Carrying out 'work on the gas system of boats used for primarily residential purposes fall within scope of a piece of UK legislation known as the Gas Safety [installation and Use] Regulations (GSIUR).

As such, anyone contracted to 'work' on the LPG system of a boat in scope must be by law Gas Safe registered. As the definition of 'work' covers the removal and replacement of the nipple on a gas tightness-test point so this law also covers carrying out BSS tightness-test with a manometer.

This means that if a boat is in scope of GSIUR and the BSS Examiner is not Gas Safe registered, he or she can only carry out a full BSS Examination if:

  • a bubble tester is fitted and correctly located; or,
  • the examiner observes a Gas Safe registered technician carrying out the tightness-test with a manometer.
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Chewbacka Veteran

Chewbacka

Posted
Posted

 

The following extract from the BSS site might explain it.

 

 

Carrying out 'work on the gas system of boats used for primarily residential purposes fall within scope of a piece of UK legislation known as the Gas Safety [installation and Use] Regulations (GSIUR).

As such, anyone contracted to 'work' on the LPG system of a boat in scope must be by law Gas Safe registered. As the definition of 'work' covers the removal and replacement of the nipple on a gas tightness-test point so this law also covers carrying out BSS tightness-test with a manometer.

This means that if a boat is in scope of GSIUR and the BSS Examiner is not Gas Safe registered, he or she can only carry out a full BSS Examination if:

  • a bubble tester is fitted and correctly located; or,
  • the examiner observes a Gas Safe registered technician carrying out the tightness-test with a manometer.

 

All very true, and if you would like a copy of the examiners check list so you can check your boat for obvious concerns you can download it here-

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

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Sabcat Rising Star

Sabcat

Posted
Posted (edited)

I has my BSS a couple of months ago and was told when I phoned to book it that due to some very recent change, the guy I called could not do my BSS as a liveaboard.

We agreed that I didn't live aboard after all, and proceeded...

 

A triumph for common sense...

Edited by Sabcat
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Barge Maria Contributor

Barge Maria

Posted
Posted

I has my BSS a couple of months ago and was told when I phoned to book it that due to some very recent change, the guy I called could not do my BSS as a liveaboard.

We agreed that I didn't live aboard after all, and proceeded...

 

I agree that this is pragmatic, and most likely what I would have done....but.......if you explode your insurers may not agree when they realise that you live aboard and enquire as to what basis the gas test was carried out!

 

Just a thought.

 

People moored adjacent may not be too happy either when their (and your) claims on your insurer fail.

 

Just saying, like.....

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bottle Veteran II

bottle

Posted
Posted

it seems to me that if all boats were fitted with a bubble tester then the potential problem would go away.

 

considering the minimal cost it is a no-brainer.

 

Bubble tester would be no good on my boat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It,s all electric. sleep.png

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nicknorman Veteran II

nicknormanDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

As I understand it its all about opening the gas test point, then closing it up and checking it doesn't leak afterwards. To do that for resi use you have to be GS registered. To do it commercially, that is. IMO if the boat owner is competent to do that simple task, he can do so and leave the BSS bod to actually do the tightness checks. However, with all the protectionist smoke and mirrors surrounding amateur gas work I suspect it might be a bit difficult to convince some BSS bods of this so ultimately it is easier to get a bod who is GS reg for LPG/boats. It is likely to be the same price!

Bubble tester would be no good on my boat.

 

It,s all electric. -_-

You could fit one to your batteries to see if they were gassing...

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nicknorman Veteran II

nicknormanDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

What is all rather daft is that a leisure boat such as ours is residential for the period we are on it, over 100 days a year. But because we have another home for some reason it's ok to have a lower standard for us than a true live aboard. Doesn't seem very logical.

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Rob@BSSOffice Proficient

Rob@BSSOffice

Posted
Posted

 

We agreed that I didn't live aboard after all, and proceeded...

A point in general pertaining to the phrase above and not specific to anyone on this forum

 

The critical issue is that if challenged in court, would a jury, after weighing up any evidence presented conclude that the boat was or was not used primarily as a place of residence and that, it was or was not, a reasonable judgement expected to be made by the examiner.

 

Anybody assisting him or creating evidence to support or lead the other person breaking the law could also face an interview under caution and potential prosecution as an accessory.

 

We always say to examiners to consider the 12 people sitting on the Clapham omnibus who will be judging the circumstances, especially if the boat blows up after the examination and fairly heavy book starts flying in your direction.

 

It's not just the 3 months in jail andor/ £5k fine per offence, its the after affects on employment, insurance cover, credit rating etc that will extend the misery.

 

Some examinations are not worth it. The Gas Safe Register and HSE are very proactive in pursuing illegal activities.

The comment about not admitting to be a live aboard raises the question what if you by a boat that has 3 years of BSS left but you have bought it to be a live aboard ?

 

The BSS certification is not affected and it can run its course to the stated expiry date if the boat is owner occupied i.e. private. But if the boat is to be let, a non-private BSS certificate will likely be needed to support the registration/licence application.

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Rob@BSSOffice Proficient

Rob@BSSOffice

Posted
Posted

What is all rather daft is that a leisure boat such as ours is residential for the period we are on it, over 100 days a year. But because we have another home for some reason it's ok to have a lower standard for us than a true live aboard. Doesn't seem very logical.

 

It is not a lower standard, it is the same standard. The issue in the OP relates only to, what is to us, a rather frustrating aspect of the law.

For the purpose of ascertaining whether a gas system leaks or not i.e. tightness testing, BSS examiners are trained and assessed in the same way, and for many, at the same college gas centre, as Gas Safe registered technicians. Examiners are subject to constant quality control monitoring processes including field assessments and quinquennial re-assessment.

 

Unless they are gas fitters what they do not do and are not trained in is the building and design of LPG systems for boats.

 

This means that the very expensive process to get training, experience, assessment, and re-assessement to meet the competency criteria for Gas Safe registration and paying registration fees, thus becoming a 'Recognised' person is not worthwhile for many examiners. (A huge respect is deserved for all those people that do)

 

Currently there is no limited scope registration criteria i.e. registration/recognition for the undertaking of gas tightness-tests only.

 

And that is why we direct the examiners in the way that we do and state the things that we state on the website as quoted above.

 

But whether you use the boat for high-days and holidays, live aboard it, rent it out or have passengers aboard in a commercial or quasi commercial way - the BSS tightness test is the same - no different standard.

You could fit one to your batteries to see if they were gassing...

 

No regulator - the pressure would be different laugh.pnglaugh.pnglaugh.png

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nicknorman Veteran II

nicknormanDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted (edited)

Sorry Rob you misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting that the BSS standard is any different, what is different is that the GSIUR is not applicable to a boat I might live on for 9 moths of the year and then go home, but it is applicable to one I live on for 9 months of the year and then go in search of the sun (on holiday abroad, say) for 3 months and don't have a land based address.

 

Ed: by not applicable, I mean the bit about, effectively, requiring a GS ticket.

Edited by nicknorman
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Rob@BSSOffice Proficient

Rob@BSSOffice

Posted
Posted

Sorry Rob you misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting that the BSS standard is any different, what is different is that the GSIUR is not applicable to a boat I might live on for 9 moths of the year and then go home, but it is applicable to one I live on for 9 months of the year and then go in search of the sun (on holiday abroad, say) for 3 months and don't have a land based address.

 

Ed: by not applicable, I mean the bit about, effectively, requiring a GS ticket.

 

Ah yes sorry, please excuse the error. Tony B posted something similar earlier and I also read that as meaning a lower standard. I conflated the two points. Apologies.

 

And yes agreed, regarding risk picture. The BSS has a database of incidents. We don't tag boats as liveaboards, we have a category called Intensive use. We had to pick a reasonable figure out and we say that ny boat used for 3 months or more in a continuous way is something we would class as 'intensively used' - lots of fuel and lots of power consumption with appliances and engines in more use.

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Ricco1 Rising Star

Ricco1

Posted
Posted

I mostly live aboard but once a week or so I go to my Mum's for tea, and stay over. I guess that's less than 3 months continuous use so someone will actually be prepared to do the test, a test that's compulsory. That's good news, I guess.

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Emerald Fox Rising Star

Emerald Fox

Posted
Posted

I has my BSS a couple of months ago and was told when I phoned to book it that due to some very recent change, the guy I called could not do my BSS as a liveaboard.

We agreed that I didn't live aboard after all, and proceeded...

 

Surely everyone 'lives aboard' a boat whilst driving it or sleeping in/on it?

We slept on our boat for 9 weeks last Summer - were we 'liveaboards' then?

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Emerald Fox Rising Star

Emerald Fox

Posted
Posted

What I now wonder is this, that if a gas bottle goes up in flames, how do you get it out of the gas locker in the front of the boat? Or do they just explode leaving your boat with 'no nose'? There could be doors fitted to the front of boats (both sides of gas locker) so that you could open to pull a flaming gas bottle out with a rope (already attached to the bottle) so that it can be dropped in the Cut.

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nicknorman Veteran II

nicknormanDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted (edited)

Gas bottles don't just go up in flames, and tend only to explode when they are exposed to a fire caused by something else. However if you ever did have a fire in the gas locker, I suggest that the best way to deal with it is to run away as fast as you can.

Edited by nicknorman
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