Should marina moorers need licences?

[Delta9]

Build a pond/lake on private land and put your boat on it. No licence fee required.

But the marina owner has done exactly that. A marina is just a pond/lake with pontoons and it is on private land. I can't afford to buy land and dig a lake so I am renting part of the marina owner's lake.

[Laurie Booth]

Would you also suggest that all cars need to be taxed even if they are stored on private land and never used?

If you store your boat on private land you do not have to pay for a licence.

They ain't getting anything free. They are paying the marina for a mooring. Then paying for a licence and an annual connection charge. Its wrong, it should be one or the other.

In a private house you pay a connection fee for electric and gas, even if you don't use it.

[Delta9]

If you store your boat on private land you do not have to pay for a licence.

Apparently I do. My boat is in a privately owned marina and I have to pay...

[Guest]

If there was a breach outside a marina and it drained that section and the marina too can I take it all those who advocate not paying a licence fee would be happy for CRT to sit on their hands and leave their boats sat on the bottom.

 

Or would they expect CRT to fix it?

Apparently I do. My boat is in a privately owned marina and I have to pay...

That is not what Laurie said.

[jenlyn]

 

In a private house you pay a connection fee for electric and gas, even if you don't use it.

Yep. I've never paid for it twice though.

[Delta9]

If there was a breach outside a marina and it drained that section and the marina too can I take it all those who advocate not paying a licence fee would be happy for CRT to sit on their hands and leave their boats sat on the bottom.

 

Or would they expect CRT to fix it?

 

That depends where the water that feeds that section and the marina comes from. The marina I am in is fed by a stream, so I would expect the marina owner to put some stop planks across the entrance and let it fill back up...

Edited January 27, 2016 by Delta9

[nicknorman]

One of the problems with not having licence fees charged for boats in marinas connected to the canals is that it would be open to abuse. Boaters are just as dishonest as other sectors of society and there would be an element who kept their boat in a marina unlicensed but nevertheless popped out for the odd day trip where they expected they wouldn't be spotted (which round our way is most of the local area). It is thus much easier for CRT to put the onus on the marina operator to ensure that all boats are licenced. It makes perfect business sense and nowhere does it say that business has to be fair.

 

Anyway, if you have a boat but never move it, why not get a caravan and then you don't have to pay for a CRT licence!

Edited January 27, 2016 by nicknorman

[Guest]

That depends where the water that feeds that section and the marina comes from.

Why?

[Laurie Booth]

But the marina owner has done exactly that. A marina is just a pond/lake with pontoons and it is on private land. I can't afford to buy land and dig a lake so I am renting part of the marina owner's lake.

Where is the marina owner getting his water from?

[lexicon]

You don't need to tax a car that is off the road and never used.

 

CRT can monitor boats in the same way they do know. If the boat slips out for a quick cruise they better hope that they aren't logged.

 

There is provision in the law for unlicensed boats using the canal. I believe it is possible for CRT to fine the owner £100 per day that they are unlicensed on the system (I don't have time to look it up right now)

 

Just because someone can afford something it doesn't mean that they should be forced to pay it. I'm sure you could afford to paypal me £20 but I bet you don't want to as I haven't provided you with a service...

Easy solution. A stop gate at the entrance to every marina.

Then no water from the canal flows into the marina.

All boats must book passage out of the gate and if without license they can't leave.

[Delta9]

Why?

see my edit..

Where is the marina owner getting his water from?

In the case of the marina I moor in: a stream

[Laurie Booth]

Yep. I've never paid for it twice though.

You are paying twice, renting a line and using it. Two charges.

[Guest]

see my edit..

 

In the case of the marina I moor in: a stream

And how many marinas are fed entirely in that way?

Edited January 27, 2016 by MJG

[jenlyn]

If we are gonna do silly analogies, I don't pay Tesco twice for the loaf of bread, and I don't pay them in anticipation of using their store.

[Jess--]

But the marina owner has done exactly that. A marina is just a pond/lake with pontoons and it is on private land. I can't afford to buy land and dig a lake so I am renting part of the marina owner's lake.

A lake would be surrounded by land and would have no opening to a canal, the charge made to the marina is for that connection to the canal and will be based on the number of boats that can make use of that connection (whether they do or not). I would imagine that one of the conditions of providing that access is that all boats that are able to use the connection are properly licensed.

 

about the only time I would try arguing it would be if I had a widebeam moored in a marina that only had narrow access, since it could be argued that due to the boat not being able to make use of the connection it should not need to be licensed for the waters on the other side.

[Laurie Booth]

see my edit..

In the case of the marina I moor in: a stream

OK

[Delta9]

And how many marinas are fed in that way?

No idea.. How is the canal in general supplied with water? Can land owners start charging CRT for water that runs off their land into canals?

[pete.i]

I think that some people would rather just use the waterways without paying anything at all towards the running costs. Wouldn't that be nice. But if that happened then those same people who at the moment enjoy a life on the canals of Great Britain wouldn't be able to do that because there wouldn't be any canals. I think, well actually I know, that some people just post to get a reaction. How sad is that?

[jenlyn]

You are paying twice, renting a line and using it. Two charges.

Your being silly.

[valrene9600]

They ain't getting anything free. They are paying the marina for a mooring. Then paying for a licence and an annual connection charge. Its wrong, it should be one or the other.

Someone had to pay for the water to be across the systems. Pumping by washes etc. If they don't pay they are getting a freebie floating their boat on water they didn't pay to mananage. The marina owner charges to moor against his land and take advantage of any facilities provided which is not the water.

[Delta9]

. I would imagine that one of the conditions of providing that access is that all boats that are able to use the connection are properly licensed.

 

 

That is correct. The point of this thread is that I think that condition is unfair.

[OldGoat]

It all seems a pointless argument and discussion -

 

The marina has a contract with CaRT (the NAA) the terms of which are that any boat on the water in the marina has to be licenced.

It is (or should be) a contract term between YOU and the MARINA operator that your boat is licenced and everything else implied within that (BSS etc)

End of.

it may not be 'fair' or 'right'.

'Society' operates - well it used to - on the basis that folks follow the rules.

 

Simples

 

Life is unfair; there are always rules and conditions that are unfair to some and not to others.

Not so long ago there were very few marinas and most boats in them were used - even only occasionally. That was their function. Would you keep a car in a car park if you never intended to use it on the road?

It's unfair that

I have no street lights,

have to manage my own waste products,

can only get 5Mb/s internet connection while others nearby have 50Mb.

I can't get all Freeview channels.

and on

and on

Edited January 27, 2016 by OldGoat

[b0atman]

In the non paying marina that I was in lots of boats went out on bank holiday weekends do the EOs need to work them at above normal hourly rates then Delta to police the system not a good use of funds !

[mayalld]

But the marina owner has done exactly that. A marina is just a pond/lake with pontoons and it is on private land. I can't afford to buy land and dig a lake so I am renting part of the marina owner's lake.

 

OK, so what you actually want is a marina that has no canal connection (because you won't use it), so why don't you moor your boat in such a marina?

[Guest]

No idea.. How is the canal in general supplied with water? Can land owners start charging CRT for water that runs off their land into canals?

 

Then your generalised question is invalid.

 

It can only be a valid question if it was phrased as marinas 'entirely non reliant on CRT in anyway'.

 

Yours sounds as if it might be and therefore there may be an argument for no charge what so ever. I would guess the majority are indeed dependent on CRT in some way and there fore a licence fee is applicable - though there Is perhaps an argument for a reduced fee for boats that don't move out the marina.

Edited January 27, 2016 by MJG