nb Beech

[Guest]

I've just had one of those moments, I saw a photo of nb Beech... Could someone please quickly talk me out of a cold sweaty palm moment

 

Can't find much about her on here, but my searching skills aren't forum refined...

 

It's a stupid idea, right?

 

 

[Guest]

Does anyone from AP Boatbuilding frequent these dark corners? Ade?

[Bloomsberry]

A quick search found this

 

http://www.wfbco.co.uk/narrowboats_for_sale/Beech

[MtB]

I've just had one of those moments, I saw a photo of nb Beech... Could someone please quickly talk me out of a cold sweaty palm moment

 

Can't find much about her on here, but my searching skills aren't forum refined...

 

It's a stupid idea, right?

 

 

 

 

If you listen carefully, you can hear a wooden boat rotting...

 

Hope that helps!

 

But yes a charming boat. Just don't go and visit and look inside, wooden boats smell magnificent. You'll have to buy.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

You do not own a wooden boat it ownes you.

 

[Derek R.]

They rot silently - they creak when healthy. At least, that was the old adage with seamen. If the bilge smelt fresh - it'd be pump, pump, pump. If it smelt stagnant - sling your hammock - she'll be sound.

 

Lovely looking boat. Basic, no nonsense - if a bit awkward under tarps. £15k doesn't sound a lot, but what will the next docking bill be like. And the one after, and the one after that. You will have to be totally committed to the boat financially.

 

Nice though.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Derek R.

[Athy]

You do not own a wooden boat it owns you.

 

Life's a Beech, eh?

They didn't do much of a job tidying it up for its sales shots. I like the Rayburn No.1 though.

[alan_fincher]

If you need to ask why you should not make an impulse buy of a wooden narrowboat, then I suspect you almost certainly should not.

 

I know this will anger the enthusiasts, however I have just been donated a stack of Waterways Worlds from the 1980s and 1990s, and out of interest have picked through the historic boats in the "for sale" sections, (there being far more advertised then than is the case now).

 

There were any number of wooden boats advertised, often with a cabin conversion or an under cloth conversion, and claimed to be in good order. It's hard to be precise, but I would say often priced at at least half the price of a similarly specced and engined boat in steel or iron, and certainly not particularly cheap by te standards of the day.

 

Many of these wooden boats are named in the adverts, and of all I have spotted the vast majority no longer exist, (or in one case is now a sunken hulk at the Ellesmere Port museum). Only a couple of wooden boats I could identify as still about, and in apparently good order.

 

On the other hand I don't recall seeing any metal ones, and thinking - that one has been lost, (other than a lot of boats that were still buttys back then have now had their back ends changed to make a motor, (or Have even been used to make TWO motors).

 

Most metal working boats built around the 1930s still exist, most wooden ones do not, unfortunately.

[MtB]

If you need to ask why you should not make an impulse buy of a wooden narrowboat, then I suspect you almost certainly should not.

 

 

My perception is the OP knows perfectly well buying the BEECH is a stupid idea from a logical perspective, they just want to be talked out of responding to the siren call of a seductive wooden boat.

 

Wooden boats are definitely female!

[alan_fincher]

Wooden boats are definitely female!

 

Ian, Raymond, Roger,........................

[MtB]

Obviously mis-named by their mummies...

[Bee]

Theres a business opportunity here. There are such things called sensory deprivation tanks - for total relaxation and stuff like that. I wouldn't give you tuppence for a session in one but a couple of hours sitting in a wooden boat to re invigorate the canal experience and suck in the atmosphere, yeah I'd pay a few quid for that. And no, digging up an old fencepost and sniffing the rotten end is not the same thing at all.

[MtB]

Theres a business opportunity here. There are such things called sensory deprivation tanks - for total relaxation and stuff like that. I wouldn't give you tuppence for a session in one but a couple of hours sitting in a wooden boat to re invigorate the canal experience and suck in the atmosphere, yeah I'd pay a few quid for that. And no, digging up an old fencepost and sniffing the rotten end is not the same thing at all.

 

 

 

Always cracks me up, the bit at the end!

[Laurence Hogg]

I knew "Beech" years ago and the owners then looked after her well, we moored "Neptune" alongside her at Stenson. She had two lengths of railway line fastened under the lining board to hold the sides straight. However that was in 1981,35 years have now past (over the expected duration of a working boat life of 25)and a lot of work must have been done in that time. £15K sounds a bargain but you could easily spend that again and again on repairs in the future. A lovely boat but deep pockets needed buyer beware.

 

As Alan has pointed out most of these boats have disappeared including my former "Neptune" which was in very fine fettle when moored with "Beech".

[Guest]

Many thanks to one and all for kind humour and sound advice!

 

"digging up an old fencepost and sniffing the rotten end is not the same thing at all" priceless!

 

It was never the advertised price that attracted me, it's her lines, she appears to sit so gracefully on the water - and THAT bow... Wow! - you're right Mike, definitely a female form!

 

Now I did find a thread somewhere that suggests that the bow lines are not original but were fined (?) during a 1980's rebuild.

 

Fortunately we are after a shorter hull, around 61' - shortening Beech would be a considerable undertaking and a huge investment - both of which are far from our intended plans for a peaceful retirement on the cut. However, a steel hull should mean that we spend more time on the water than in the boatyard... so...

 

How would I go about commissioning a measure up of the hull, in particularly the first 20-25ft of her to capture the lines so that they could be reproduced in steel?

 

(Sadly the guys at Dadford's Wharf are all busy with builds for the foreseeable (I've asked), otherwise that measure/replicate process could be far simpler!)

 

Does anyone here have experience of measuring up with a view to replicating in metal? I wouldn't know where to start!

 

Can anyone recommend such a person, maybe Laurence? Who do I need to speak to? Would I need to arrange for her to be lifted out?

 

I'm waiting for the Owner "Vanessa" to mail me back...

 

Thanks Guys

Edited January 10, 2016 by dpaws

[RLWP]

How would I go about commissioning a measure up of the hull, in particularly the first 20-25ft of her to capture the lines so that they could be reproduced in steel?

 

You may well struggle with that one. Many builders have their own styles that they know work and are part of their 'stamp' on a boat. Dave Harris is one of those. Asking builders like that to copy another builder would be a bit odd

 

Steve Priest at Brinklow does produce replicas and appreciates a fine line, maybe you could get him interested

 

Otherwise, you are probably looking at a new builder who is up for a challenge but who may not appreciate what they are getting into

 

That's not to say you can make the shape of a wooden boat in steel easily. The material doesn't work in the same way

 

Richard

[Victor Vectis]

PM sent.

[BEngo]

Go and see Roger Farrington at Braunston. He has measurements and templates for a number of working boat shapes, though I don't know if that includes a wooden Josher.

 

It should be possible to measure up from the inside- the photos on the WFB site indicate that the bow is accessible internally. The stern swim might be less simple. The basic principle is to take a number of 'slices' through the hull. Set up a "vertical" batten in about the centre, square to the bottom fore and aft and athwartships, well back of the bow- measure the distance to the stem post and record this. Now take a series of horizontal measurements 1 plank width apart from the edge of the batten out to the hull. Take all measurements from the same edge port or starboard doesn't matter. Record all these measurements.

 

Repeat with the batten about 9 in further forward each time, until you come to the base of the stempost. Then take a further series of measurements forward to the stem post.

 

Add the thickness of the planking and any shearing to each horizontal measurement. Then reduce each measurement by the thickness of steel which will be used.

 

Draw each set of adjusted measurements up on a separate piece of ply or stout hardboard or mdf. Join the dots, fairing the curves with a batten and cut out the shapes with a jigsaw. You now have a set of wooden templates which the steel work can be planked up to.

 

Take a good set of photos of the bow and measure the distance (at the rear of the guard) to the top of each guard from the gunwale, so that the guard irons can be correctly placed.

 

N

[Guest]

Thanks Richard,

 

 

You may well struggle with that one. Many builders have their own styles that they know work and are part of their 'stamp' on a boat. Dave Harris is one of those. Asking builders like that to copy another builder would be a bit odd

 

Steve Priest at Brinklow does produce replicas and appreciates a fine line, maybe you could get him interested

 

Otherwise, you are probably looking at a new builder who is up for a challenge but who may not appreciate what they are getting into

 

That's not to say you can make the shape of a wooden boat in steel easily. The material doesn't work in the same way

 

Richard

 

 

Many thanks Richard - I had wondered about the way the different materials handle.

 

In order to compensate for my ignorance I'd envisaged an intermediate stage where the dimensions are fed into a CAD package, the shape corrected and curves faired before producing a laser cut kit of strips - which of course are ideal for a new builder/fabricator.

 

That would also give me the advantage of being able to review the hydrodynamics, and produce a bespoke shape aft swim that's mathematically in harmony with the forward one in terms of buoyancy etc to minimise the hull resistance - I know that's not strictly necessary, it's not a fine racing yacht, but I like things that way.

 

Steve Priest is certainly one of the extremely talented guys who was on the shortlist, but I haven't seen many of his builds with lines that melt me - his Small Woolwich put me off a little, her shearline is angular / kinked, exactly the opposite to Beech.

 

 

Thanks BEngo - Sound and comprehensive advice, I have the impression that you've done this before? Do you accept commissions? The point about Farrington is that the bow is unique due to the work in the 80's, he won't have a template, I guess that no-one does.

[RLWP]

The point is, once you have the planks pulled into shape, you can set to with an adze to smooth out the lumps, joints and inconsistencies. That way you create a highly complex doubly curved structure. Nigh on impossible from flat steel sheet

 

Likewise, rocking up to a highly experienced boat builder with a set of CAD templates will probably get you a cup of tea, an interesting conversation, assurance that their books are full for the next fifty years and wishes of the best of luck with your project. There are other ways of being shown the door

 

Richard

[Guest]

Likewise, rocking up to a highly experienced boat builder with a set of CAD templates will probably get you a cup of tea, an interesting conversation, assurance that their books are full for the next fifty years and wishes of the best of luck with your project. There are other ways of being shown the door

 

Now there's experience for you!! .... that's the latest t-shirt in my collection, fresh from DY8! It's a tough learning process, but I will succeed!

 

(Oh, and the same happens if you ask about any of the hydrostatic parameters... funny that, car makers can explain their suspension geometry but the majority of narrowboat makers can't explain why that bit is shaped like that... )

Edited January 10, 2016 by dpaws

[MtB]

Probably something to do with the fact that cars are made in their millions, but boats one at a time by hand. Only a few dozen boats are made in a whole career for any given bespoke hull builder, or a few hundred for a volume producer.

[Tony Dunkley]

 

That's not to say you can make the shape of a wooden boat in steel easily. The material doesn't work in the same way

 

Richard

 

That's complete nonsense. There are no compound curves in the individual strakes of a wooden narrowboat hull, and steel plate cut to the same width dimensions and shape as planks cut from 2''(nominal, sawn 'through and through') oak will bend to shape, in one plane only, in precisely the same way. In some respects, bending steel 'planks' would be easier than bending 2'' Oak if the hull was constructed on a sufficiently strong temporary jig to pull each steel 'plank' round with chain blocks, or a Pul-lift.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[Derek R.]

Might be worth approaching the Fullers for Josher replicas:

http://www.spurstow.com/rogerfuller/pages/new%20boats.htm

 

It's going to be an expensive journey.

[Guest]

Probably something to do with the fact that cars are made in their millions, but boats one at a time by hand. Only a few dozen boats are made in a whole career for any given bespoke hull builder, or a few hundred for a volume producer.

 

Sorry MIke, I wasn't really clear with my thoughts - I'm thinking of the low volume manually welded sports car community in the UK, Caterham / Morgan / Silva racing etc.

 

Of course, all of the traditional boat designs were signed off by a naval architect prior to release, so the builder needs "only" to follow the plans rather than understand them.

 

But, as soon as there's a deviation from the plan is incurred then you're on your own, so it may be at least useful to know the consequences of fining the bow or squaring the aft swim to individual tastes. OK, our narrow boat hulls aren't rocket science and designs don't need to be efficient as we need extra ballast and we can always add extra HP, but I see many asking what is it that makes a boat swim well, and that answer lies within the numbers. It interests me, but probably no one else!