The whole network - how long to do it?

[magpie patrick]

As I approach some rather significant milestones in 2016, and following a year in which the biggest boat trip I did was Richmond to Teddington with the songbird, my mind is turning once again to a long held ambitions to cruise "the lot" - all the connected system. I've done a significant portion of it, and haven't given up on the idea of the non-connected bits like canoeing the Neath Canal, but my horizons are expanding on many fronts including this one.

 

I'll start by defining "the whole network" - the non-tidal connected system plus the tidal Thames above Limehouse, the Trent above Keadby, the Ouse above Goole and the Ribble Link, and the non-tidal waterways that these connect**. I'd include branches but not every basin or marina - can't really define a branch but it would have an end that was distinct from the start - a basin or a marina doesn't

 

**edited to add, and tidal bits of the Great Ouse around Denver and Hermitage

 

Might go beyond those boundaries or I might miss out bits within them, but that definition is the guide.

 

Could it be done in a year off? I'm the sort that could do the Cheshire Ring in a week but wouldn't want to do it twice in two weeks, to do the whole system I would need to pace myself. On the basis that many through routes would feature only once I'd turn down any branch that I passed the end of.

 

Having answered that (which one might call the "Lutine Bell" solution) How many three week breaks would it take? That would be the "Juno" solution, get her trailed to a new bit each summer

 

Just wondering, and dreaming. It isn't going to happen just yet...

Edited January 6, 2016 by magpie patrick

[dmr]

It would be quite fun to sit down with the canal map and work out the most efficient route that takes in the whole system with minimum back-tracking.

You could then use Canal Plan to get the hours required.

 

I feel that doing it all as a single hit in a year off (or whatever) would be more satisfying than doing it in weekends and holidays.

A few years back we walked the SouthWest coast path over three years, doing a 3 week chunk each year, and we still dream of going back and doing it again in a single hit (and it is only a dream now, carrying all that dog food in a ruck sack would be just too much.)

 

But do you really want to do this? Taking a year off and just going where the fancy takes you might be more fun?

Year before last we were in Banbury heading for the upper Thames (I think) when we met some boaters we knew who were heading for Cambridge so we just turned round and went to Cambridge. Its a lovely sense of freedom.

 

We have almost given up on doing the whole (70 foot) system and have just got stuck in a rut of an annual trip from Bristol to Liverpool and back, with extensive detours, Its a very nice rut!

 

................Dave

[tidal]

Judging from the lack of progress made by a couple I know who, upon retiring, set off with this avowed intent (from just below Ripon) and have only just reached Brum some 8 years later. it may take a long time

 

I tried calculating the known distance against an average speed over average daylight hours but gave up coz I'm carp at maths

[mrsmelly]

We have done about eighty percent of the system you describe several times over the last 26 years. We have taken ourselves off for terms of 3 months 6 months and 12 months on a few ocasions and never planned it. I think the beauty of it lies in the not planning side and go were you please when you please. We dont tend to stay put for more than 24/48 hours in one spot as whilst needing to charge batteries most days its nice to also travel whilst charging. When we started in 89 we would charge about for 8 hour at least days cruising whatever the weather but now 2 to 4 hours max is more our norm. We all boat differently and its a case of whatever floats your boat realy. Personaly after 13 months last time and only boating and not running a business I was pulling my hair out so stopping forever and cruising without working at all would probably drive me nuts.

 

Tim

[Tonka]

Are you intending to just do it and tick a box or enjoy doing it and have time to stop when you felt like it

[Sea Dog]

 

I tried calculating the known distance against an average speed over average daylight hours but gave up coz I'm carp at maths

And you forgot to allow for blacking every 2 or 3 years!

[Athy]

Perhaps an enquiry to the Tuesday Night Club, whose members have indeed traversed the entire system, might give you an idea of the time required. I think that at least one of their number is a member of CWF.

[Mike Todd]

I for one can see the attraction of the idea, especially if there is time for the odd 'on the hoof' variation. Alas, our lifestyle still has too many other commitments to do it all in one go although there are very few bits left to do for the first time.

 

There will be a version of the Travelling Salesman algorithm that could, I am sure, be adapted to solve the problem (it si equivalent to doing the whole of the London Underground in 24 hours problem) but will need to start with an adequate database - in the right form of course.

[zenataomm]

The whole network - how long to do it?

I'm not aware of any threats on the continued existence of The Whole Network, although I do seem to remember a recent thread on here describing the link from the Shroppie to The River Dee being at risk of continuing.

 

So I'd relax and take as long as you want.

[Richard Fairhurst]

There will be a version of the Travelling Salesman algorithm that could, I am sure, be adapted to solve the problem (it si equivalent to doing the whole of the London Underground in 24 hours problem) but will need to start with an adequate database - in the right form of course.

 

Beat me to it! There are a few open-source tools around to solve TSP problems, but the only digital, routable waterway database that I know of is Canalplan (there's also OSM, but the canal data is too patchy).

[Mike Todd]

 

Beat me to it! There are a few open-source tools around to solve TSP problems, but the only digital, routable waterway database that I know of is Canalplan (there's also OSM, but the canal data is too patchy).

If the format of the input can be specified, I could possibly supply my own database suitably structured ie lists of junctions and distances in between.

[Nightwatch]

In eighteen months of living onboard we have, from Clattercote, been to Oxford. North to Braunston. Rugby, Fradley, Alrewas, Shardlow, liecester,Crick, Norton a Junction,Brinklow,Norton Junction,Leicester Shardlow back to Fradley then up the Trent and Mersy to Stone. Back to Great Haywood, staffs & Worcs to Atherley Junction onto Shroppy. Now at Brewood.

 

We are taking our time.

 

I don't think we will make all the system as its too complicated, for us, but we will continue as long as we are able. I did hear once that it would take two years if you get a wiggle on.

 

Good luck.

[Tacet]

We travelled the system (as Patrick described) in three summers and two winters - at a reasonably leisurely pace. In practice, we probably completed the system about twice on average with, for example, twice each on all three Pennine crossings, the Thames, Llangollen, Liverpool and several times on more intermediate waterways. We are a middle-aged couple in conventional health, with some family ties. I also worked throughout the trip - but by no means all day, every day, of course. It didn't require the same pace as the four counties ring in a week; we took time to see the sites, both great and small - but no 14 days stops, unless forced by other circumstances.

 

In principle, something like two summers and one winter is certainly feasible; the stoppages do impose difficulties in the winter. In this time, we completed the lot other than the K & A (having passed through Reading), the Fens (having been to Wellingborough) and the Lancaster Canal (having been to Tarleton). The difficulty is in timetabling the various details and unforeseen problems, such as stoppages, flood and droughts. For example, the Aylesbury Arm was closed for much of the time -and had to be missed on three passings. We did eventually make the trip to the end although it closed again soon afterwards. The Basingstoke Canal was not open above Brookwood at the time, so we did miss that. We lost three weeks at Lapworth due to a CRT mistake on stoppages, got trapped for a couple of weeks on the Wey and chose not to move for a week in Market Drayton due to snow and anticipated icing etc etc.

 

Therefore, if you really mean "all", I rather doubt it could be achieved in 12 months; perfectly possible with a Travelling Salesman programme, but more likely to be defeated by some unpredicted hitch.

 

I count myself very privileged to have had the opportunity to fulfill this ambition. The downside is that it has not removed the craving; we would love to do it again

[magpie patrick]

 

I count myself very privileged to have had the opportunity to fulfill this ambition. The downside is that it has not removed the craving; we would love to do it again

 

I suspected as much!

 

Is it box ticking? (Tonka)

 

Only to some extent - I probably wouldn't do everything if I wasn't box ticking but I bet I'd do 95% of it, and in many cases it's the un-obvious bits that wouldn't be box ticking. Slough Arm? Yes please! Horseway Lock? Bring it on!

 

As it would be a sabbatical rather than retirement (unless there is something I don't know about round the corner) I suspect knocking chunks off in long holidays might be easier, for example, take Juno over to the Fenland Rivers and knock off Peterborough to Bedford with all branches. Trouble is, Juno can also be taken to the Broads, and the Scottish Canals and...

[Neil Smith]

This is my plan when I retire and have all the time it needs without rushing but if I really like a town I might stay 14 days then move on if not its over night then off again, to pastures new and recharge batteries.

 

Neil

[Thorfast]

I reckon you would need a bit more than 1500 hours.

After that it just depends how much of each day you want to spend on the move

[Dave_P]

Boat dimensions play a part too. For length there's the restricted Calder & Hebble and that short lock on the levels. For height, perhaps the Dudley Tunnel would be the biggest challenge. Also, remember, just when you finish, a bit more of the Montgomery will open ;-)

 

Of course, then there's mainland Europe...

 

I've got my heart set on doing North America's Great Loop.

[Tacet]

 

Is it box ticking? (Tonka)

 

Only to some extent - I probably wouldn't do everything if I wasn't box ticking but I bet I'd do 95% of it, and in many cases it's the un-obvious bits that wouldn't be box ticking. Slough Arm? Yes please! Horseway Lock? Bring it on!

 

As it would be a sabbatical rather than retirement (unless there is something I don't know about round the corner) I suspect knocking chunks off in long holidays might be easier, for example, take Juno over to the Fenland Rivers and knock off Peterborough to Bedford with all branches. Trouble is, Juno can also be taken to the Broads, and the Scottish Canals and...

 

It is box ticking, of course, but there is not one mile that I wouldn't be pleased to travel again.

 

Slough Arm? Been there. Horseway Lock? Done it - but admittedly not on the Big Trip. Broads? Seen them. Scottish canals? Booked for this year. We took the view that the only way for us to see the far flung corners, was to take a sabbatical.

 

The definition of the whole system is somewhat variable - and depends on what rules you adopt (Does it have to be your boat? Can it be a trip boat or hired boat? Does a canoe or dinghy qualify?) Certainly the Tuesday Night Club sets the barrier very high. Having seen some obscure parts of the system over 40 odd years, when I check the TNC they have almost always been there too. Eg Horseshoe Falls or Chelmer & Blackwater. There are a couple of small corners where I have been (and it has not) - but they are heavily outweighed by the reverse

Edited January 6, 2016 by Tacet

[Tacet]

I reckon you would need a bit more than 1500 hours.

After that it just depends how much of each day you want to spend on the move

 

 

We took around 3000 hours from memory but deliberately visited quite a bit twice or more. My guess would be maybe 1800 - 2000 running hours as a possible minimum. Therefore 12 months might require an average of 40 hours a week - which is pushing it rather taking account of time to look around, winter and probable other demands on one's time. Two summers and one winter puts it down to say, 20 hours per week in winter and 30 hours in summer which is not too hard.

[ValandPete]

We have covered the whole of the system except the Droitwich. I can't imagine doing it in one year, even two. We have done most of it in the 5 years we have not had a home mooring altho we did the Severn, G and S, Avon before that. And been to London three times and the upper Thames three, I think. We have slowed down a lot now but we never really boated long days or every day.

 

It is difficult to make real progress in the winter even with good planning around stoppages because of the short days and the weather. The weather can take chunks out of summer cruising as well as it did in 2012. A total of nearly three weeks stuck on the Trent and York Ouse for example plus short days because of the incessant rain and cold.

 

I think your idea of doing it in blocks sounds more achievable and more enjoyable perhaps.

 

Val

[Athy]

Boat dimensions play a part too. For length there's the restricted Calder & Hebble and that short lock on the levels.

Lengthened several years ago, fear not.

[magpie patrick]

 

I've got my heart set on doing North America's Great Loop.

 

Me too, but if this were "just a minute" I'd pull you up on deviation. I also need to be realistic about how long I'll live, I reckon to do everything I want I need to make it to 150 at least...

 

 

 

Boat dimensions play a part too. For length there's the restricted Calder & Hebble and that short lock on the levels. For height, perhaps the Dudley Tunnel would be the biggest challenge. Also, remember, just when you finish, a bit more of the Montgomery will open ;-)

 

 

 

I hadn't thought of dimensions - Lutine is 45 foot and Juno 23, both are narrow beam. I don't mind using a dinghy but I'm not adding all the waterways a dinghy can navigate, there are far too many of them! In fact, even identifying them all would be a challenge. I've seen the Dorset and Somerset Canal at Coleford with enough water in to float a canoe...

 

 

[Neil TNC]

Perhaps an enquiry to the Tuesday Night Club, whose members have indeed traversed the entire system, might give you an idea of the time required. I think that at least one of their number is a member of CWF.

It took us from 2001 to 2006 to do all the "connected" stuff available at the time. That was normally one big out and back (from Harefield) block/tour per year (5-6 weeks). These blocks required a lot of planning and good weather conditions, but all went to plan. Since NB Earnest has been back from Ireland, we finally finished the bits that had been restored while we were away (Liverpool Link and Black Sluice Navigation). When I say all, we have not done the End of the Mont below Gronwen Bridge that opened then shut again, Tidal Ribble to Preston Dock, Tidal Wharfe to Tadcaster (I know John Pomfret has), Lydney Dock, Dutch River and Tidal Aire....oh...and even though we now moor on the Ashby and are members of the Ashby Canal Association, we have not yet been through the new lift bridge!

 

 

"connected"...The Chelmer and Blackwater was stretching the "connected" status

[FadeToScarlet]

Lengthened several years ago, fear not.

...unless he means Brandon Lock, which although it's not on the levels, is particularly short and limits navigation.

 

As does Upware Lock (to 62ish feet) to get onto Burwell and Wicken lodes.

[Terryb]

Keep going guys. By that I mean I am absolutely engrossed in this whole subject. nearly 7 years ago I had the seed of an idea. Then eventually last year I bought Alfie after 7 or 8 months of work and bridge hopping I packed in my job. I am now in the final throws of making a start to see the whole system.

Hopefully by the end of February I will be setting off From Bishops Stortford. I do not intend to lose sleep on missing out on the odd Arm or back water, and I do not have any agenda or plan. I want to enjoy my journey with my dog and camera taking in as much "touristy" bits as is of interest.

What I would love to hear about, would be places of interest on the way, anything that would help me singlehandedly navigate the system greatly appreciated. Maybe even suggested routes ie, clockwise on the Oxford ring or Anti clockwise. Why ?

I am a complete newbie, having only ever lived on Alfie before. ( remember, it only took me 10 daays to sink it) so whatever your experience it will be better and more valuable to me than you would have thought.