South East Visitor Moorings Consultation - Batchworth, Berkhamsted, Marsworth & Braunston

[mark99]

It's on the map key.

 

 

The red text on my map (Batwth) says

 

Maximum stay in area:

Single visit - 7 days*

Calendar month – 14 days*

Edited January 6, 2016 by mark99

[alan_fincher]

I have just received the following from Matthew Symonds, Relationship & Strategy Manager (Boating) at CRT.

 

So you can see that Batchworth (Rickmansworth) is now withdrawn from the current consultation, and will be reopened at a later date with the errors corrected.

I’m afraid I have to start the New Year with an apology. Unfortunately due to a human error that I take full responsibility for, the current mooring stay time information for Batchworth provided in the visitor mooring report to the sub group in November, and subsequently transferred into the consultation was incorrect. This error was highlighted to me today, so I have taken action to withdrawal the Batchworth proposal from the consultation information on the web page replacing it with a correction and apology that says;

 

Proposed changes to Batchworth moorings

 

Update 6 January 2016: Due to an error in the current mooring stay time information the proposals for Batchworth have been withdrawn. The south east boaters sub group will receive an updated report at their next meeting in March. If any proposals are agreed following this meeting these will be subject to a period of wider consultation.

 

Although the website has been live since before Christmas we have not sent any information directly to boaters in these areas yet, however some people have picked this error up and I believe there has been some discussion on the forums. Alan I know that you use the forums, I would appreciate if you could highlight the correction in this thread.

 

It’s unfortunate that this error happened, and I take full responsibility. I hope making this correction prevents and further confusion.

[jenlyn]

I have just received the following from Matthew Symonds, Relationship & Strategy Manager (Boating) at CRT.

 

So you can see that Batchworth (Rickmansworth) is now withdrawn from the current consultation, and will be reopened at a later date with the errors corrected.

 

The last south east boater sub group meeting was at the beginning of December. Nothing from that meeting on CRT's web site yet.

These decisions that Mathew symmonds presents to the group, and the way in which the group is run and managed, is as bent as a nine Bob note.

[alan_fincher]

The last south east boater sub group meeting was at the beginning of December. Nothing from that meeting on CRT's web site yet.

These decisions that Mathew symmonds presents to the group, and the way in which the group is run and managed, is as bent as a nine Bob note.

The meeting notes exist, but are still in draft, and several errors in them have been reported, I think. The CRT protocol is that they are only put on the web site when agreed. I have suggested things would appear more transparent if they were published sooner. I suspect that staff changes, and possibly Christmas holidays have delayed things further for this set.

 

(At least they do always eventually get published, so maybe slightly restrict the number of FOIA requests made by certain people! )

 

 

[jenlyn]

The meeting notes exist, but are still in draft, and several errors in them have been reported, I think. The CRT protocol is that they are only put on the web site when agreed. I have suggested things would appear more transparent if they were published sooner. I suspect that staff changes, and possibly Christmas holidays have delayed things further for this set.

 

(At least they do always eventually get published, so maybe slightly restrict the number of FOIA requests made by certain people! )

 

 

Comical.

[adam1uk]

For Batchworth there is a relaxation by the inclusion of 7 day moorings, compared to 3 day at the moment (or should that be 2 day?). For Berko and Marsworth there are significant sections that are not "all year round". Perhaps you should re-read the text?

In addition for Marsworth there are large stretches of moorings not covered at all by these proposals. There's the bit between bridges 129 and 130 (in my view the most pleasant of the moorings on that level) and then there's the section above Lock 39 by the reservoirs. So at least in the case of Marsworth there will still be plenty of 14 day mooring opportunities.

 

Edited to add: they do seem to have forgotten to allow for a lock landing below Lock 39, though.

Edited January 6, 2016 by adam1uk

[mark99]

I did think the B/Worth info was not right.

 

All I could see last time I went past (3 times in last 2 weeks) were 14 day signs currently there.

Edited January 6, 2016 by mark99

[jenlyn]

It just further shows how incompetent CRT and Mathew symmonds are when dribbling this stuff out. People wander why some get peed off with them.

[alan_fincher]

I did think the B/Worth info was not right.

 

All I could see last time I went past (3 times in last 2 weeks) were 14 day signs currently there.

 

Yes,

 

I think the proposal actually intended to change 14 day moorings, but now the error has been acknowledged, I think that the audit trail of what was actually said has disappeared also where details of that site have been deleted, and the only reference may be where others have referred to it elsewhere.

 

There were initially problems with text on all the actual maps that CRT put on the website, and I spotted problems in the maps themselves and got them corrected. However, I didn't spot the problem that was on the main web page, rather than the maps it linked to.

 

[Graham.m]

It's in the box top left as I look at it now.

Pricing is widely used as a demand control mechanism. Look at varying travel costs, as one example. Waiting time (another form of pricing) is used to control demand in health care treatment.

 

Sorry I cannot see where or how this is a pricing to control a demand mechanism. It is simple a fine if you stay past minute X. Your examples do not relate.

[Rambling]

Well as far as I can see & I am not even on a CRT mooring, or a CCr

 

CRT have spent nearly half a million ££s on legal fees against boaters, are trying to change laws set in the 1995 BW act, they have sold loads of historic buildings for development into flats, want to sell part of The River Lea to developers, but not much seems to have been done on maintenance. Loads of bullying though.

 

I would vote them out tomorrow given the chance or certainly fight their ever changing policies legally.

 

I was looking forward to cruising in my retirement, but this lot are enough to put anyone off boating. Perhaps that's the aim.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Rambling

[mark99]

Well as far as I can see & I am not even on a CRT mooring, or a CCr

 

CRT have spent nearly half a million ££s on legal fees against boaters, are trying to change laws set in the 1995 BW act, they have sold loads of historic buildings for development into flats, want to sell part of The River Lea to developers, but not much seems to have been done on maintenance. Loads of bullying though.

 

I would vote them out tomorrow given the chance or certainly fight their ever changing policies legally.

 

I was looking forward to cruising in my retirement, but this lot are enough to put anyone off boating. Perhaps that's the aim.

 

 

Can you point specifically where any of the noise (or actual experience) you report has affected your plans to cruising?

Edited January 6, 2016 by mark99

[Rambling]

Well - holidays and mooring up to relax and jumping to attention because a warden comes along taking boat names was the first experience of CRT.

 

Trying to keep up with the changing mooring rules when planning my little trips. These seem to change regularly & are never overly clear.

 

Growing up next to the Basingstoke Canal, so always keeping up with news & changes as much as possible by reading Canal Boat Mag, Towpath Talk, this forum.

 

Living on a boat with the idea of travelling when my son leaves college. But the reality of CCing for a year has rather been damaged for me by CRT, not seeming to want to encourage travelling or living on boats.

 

The Basingstoke does not in any way encourage boaters, in fact they just want walkers, canoeists & cyclists. I see other rivers/ canals going that way too in the future & I can't say I like it. I think canals should remain open for navigation and should retain the peaceful relaxed freedom of travelling.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Rambling

[Rambling]

And to add to that, being surprised at the state of the canals & locks & towpaths & lack of facilities that work, on my travels. I do wonder if they spend public money wisely.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

 

 

Can you point specifically where any of the noise (or actual experience) you report has affected your plans to cruising?

I think you rather miss the point of this thread. It is to do with CaRT's proposals for additional mooring restrictions rather than the prevention of cruising.

[FadeToScarlet]

The Basingstoke does not in any way encourage boaters, in fact they just want walkers, canoeists & cyclists

This isn't entirely true in my experience. The Historic Narrow boat Club are having a gathering, along with the Basingstoke Canal society, in Woking next August- something in the region of 100 boats, including about 40-50 deep draught historic boats.

 

The Basingstoke Canal Authority have been nothing but supportive and helpful in encouraging navigation, including negotiating block licencing deals with the EA for access, arranging lock working times for water conservation balanced with the need to get as many boats as possible to attend, and generally supporting the endeavour- including several trips to the head of navigation.

 

I haven't yet been onto the canal, although many fellow committee membars have, but from the point of view of the organisers of the event, they are being very supportive.

[Rambling]

No I haven't missed the point, I just added extra points as I am finding all they do, accumulative.

 

Aren't they proposing to change some moorings from the BW 1995 act that states 14 days, by adding their own restrictions (which ultimately affects anyone wanting to relax, moor up & chill out or those who live on boats & cruise.

 

I assure you, I am not the only boater who is put off cruising in retirement by CRTs activities.

 

 

 

That is what I am questioning.

[ValandPete]

We too found the Basingstoke Canal people very helpful and supportive and the canal had been kept open for three consecutive years, I think, because of their efforts.

 

Val

[Rambling]

I love the Basingstoke canal having spent my whole childhood in it, on it & around it. Just get a bit frustrated now being a Narrowboat owner, that it is so difficult to navigate it, and too shallow & full of weeds. I would love nothing more than to see the whole of that canal restored (right up to Basingstoke) and full of colourful boats, but I think I will just have to get excited over the potential Wey & Arun instead. In 49 yrs of being by the Basingtoke, nothing much has changed. I was around 10yrs old when it was last seriously dredged & spent years covered in mud hunting for cod bottles & falling in. Never got ill strangely. Probably should have done.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Rambling

[Arthur Marshall]

No need to be put off cruising by CRT's activities. You might be put off mooring up in the smae place for ages, but you shouldn;t have any problems actually cruising - I don't see why you should get worried by the arrival of a warden. If you're cruising. It's certainly never bothered me at any time over the last thirty years!

[Derek Porteous]

I was under the impression that the area round Cropredy is jammed for weeks before the festival with boats arriving earlier and earlier and overstaying longer and longer every year to be sure of a space. Maybe that couple of weeks of mass "screw you" selfishness is a rationale for restrictions. Though I can't help thinking that solid seasonal enforcement would be a better tool.

Absolutely true. We were passing through a whole two weeks before the festival last summer. We only got moored overnight by asking a hire boat to move up a bit (they had moored in the middle if a space for two). Talking to other boat crews on the towpath and in the pub, most of the boats were there for the festival. No idea how this works from the mooring time limit standpoint.

[onionbargee]

We are now at the point where we've got to send someone ahead to find out what the mooring time limits are before we arrive. Every time we go somewhere they have changed.

 

Just because a top spot is 14 days it doesn't mean all the boats will stay 14 days, reduced time limits are just a PINA for every one. Any one who moans at no being able to get in their chosen visitor mooring needs to relax, you have to take pot luck when your boating, mooring a few hundred meters from the ideal spot won't kill you. Why shouldn't a boater have 14 days on a nice spot, CC,ers go through the entire winter mooring in mud, and shoite, can't they have a break ?

 

In any case CRT are only doing this to slowly creep in the idea of paying for visitor moorings. Remember last summer these £25 a day signs went up at Soulbury 3 locks ? And CRT said they had no plans to charge the fee / fine / charge ?

 

CRT are compulsive liars, its in their management ethos.

[Arthur Marshall]

In any case CRT are only doing this to slowly creep in the idea of paying for visitor moorings.

 

I think that's what will happen. As money gets tighter, they'll have to charge for everything, and the good town moorings will end up being charged for. The excuse may be, as at Llangollen, that water and electric are provided, whether you want them or not. Luckily, most of the canal system is in the middle of nowhere, and they can't charge you any more for that, but it will be hard on CCers who need to stop for serious shopping and facilities. Won't make a lot of difference to holiday makers, really, or for hirers who have paid a vast amount already.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Arthur Marshall

[jenlyn]

I think that's what will happen. As money gets tighter, they'll have to charge for everything, and the good town moorings will end up being charged for. The excuse may be, as at Llangollen, that water and electric are provided, whether you want them or not. Luckily, most of the canal system is in the middle of nowhere, and they can't charge you any more for that, but it will be hard on CCers who need to stop for serious shopping and facilities. Won't make a lot of difference to holiday makers, really, or for hirers who have paid a vast amount already.

The trust are not short of money, I'm not sure where you get that from, as even parry states they do well financially.

They do waste an awful lot though. Just for example, parry states he was spending 10 million a year on vegetation, that's 5 grand a mile. A ridiculous amount if true, and a ridiculous figure if talking from the top of his head.

 

It's all coming across as a very amateurish attempt at running the trust.

I mean you send out a consultation on vm's, then have to withdraw some of it because you didn't know the area, mark it out correctly?

Sitting at a desk marking the canal on Google maps has to raise a few laughs I guess. What a shambles.

[bassplayer]

 

In any case CRT are only doing this to slowly creep in the idea of paying for visitor moorings.

...and we still haven't found out if this is legal. I know CRT are getting away with it in some areas but we may only find out when some poor sod gets taken to court for not paying.

 

As far as I know at the moment our licence fee entitles us to moor anywhere for up to 14 days. Anything else seems muddy waters. Maybe this is a good thing but I think £25 a night is pushing muddy water too far in my mind. If CRT did lose a court case over this and it was determined to be an illegal charge, it could open up lots of claims for those who have already paid.

 

...and who would end up paying for it?...us....