To Loan and Buy or Not..

[GOONIESnvrSAYdie]

One thing I did want to ask, as I'm not very mechanically minded in the engine sense but do have a lot of car mechanic friends etc. If I ever have engine problems I assume I can call on their expertise for help? As one diesel engine is the same as the next really. Or do you need marine engine experts?

 

The only dealings I've had in the past with boat engines have been out boards we had on our family fishing boats.

[OldGoat]

 

Oh I knew about the difficulties in fitting one from scratch, I just meant the initial out lay for the stove wouldn't be as much as normal. Thanks for the tips though, much appreciated.

 

One question I do have though, as we may buy a boat with one already fitted and decide it would be better to re-position it. Do people find with it being at one end of the boat the heat transfers down the long distance to the other end? I've seen others where people move them down towards the kitchen/ more centrally. I know you will have central heating also, so maybe you don't need to worry so much about the stove heat making it's way to the bedroom?

 

 

In moving one you have twice the 'problems'. Double disruption to the fabric of the boat - blanking off the hole left by the existing location and making a new one. However, I suspect that in a boat with an existing stove, the layout will be such that there's no clear space into which move the unit. That's assuming you're talking about a conventional cast iron stove. I v'e seen photos on here recently with a Hurricane (?) drip feed diesel heater and that took up a lot less space. You have to consider 'safe working clearances' as well.

 

Stoves ted to be placed in the living area of a boat and that's the logical place for it - reinforcing my comments above, so it'll be a matter of fitting one n a boat that doesn't already have on - rather than moving it. Have a look at some of the layouts of boats for sale and you may see what I mean.

 

Our boat is 'reverse layout' - bedroom at the front, kitchen / living at the rear. Heat from the stove doesn't get as far as the bedroom. That suits The Management as we are subject to the adage -

Some like to freeze, while others smother,

By some fateful, fiendish chance,

they marry one another....

 

We have Mikuni central heating as well - but even though it's reasonably quiet, we do find that the noise intrudes quite a lot and if you'll be living in close proximity in a marina - the neighbours may complain of the constant whine.

[ditchcrawler]

Trad stern, pump out bog, multifuel stove, a bit of seating at the front, sounds like your heading in the right direction to me.

If you could get a 70 footer with a proper engine room you could stop thinking about 'ouses and just live on the boat for the rest of your lives.

 

.................Dave

That is always a danger

[David Mack]

One thing I did want to ask, as I'm not very mechanically minded in the engine sense but do have a lot of car mechanic friends etc. If I ever have engine problems I assume I can call on their expertise for help? As one diesel engine is the same as the next really. Or do you need marine engine experts?

Modern boat diesel engines are simpler than those fitted to cars. They are based on units which are widely used in plant and machinery so spares etc. are available. Many boaters service their own engines.

 

Or if you want a vintage diesel, they are again mostly simple to maintain, although parts can hard to find for some models.

[magictime]

If it's a choice between buying a boat vs. renting a flat while saving in a Help to Buy ISA, buying a boat makes perfect sense to me. It would be 'money down the drain' to some extent, I guess, given that you'd be paying interest on a loan and the boat would most likely depreciate in value, but at least you'd own a boat at the end of it. That seems a lot easier to swallow than paying out thousands upon thousands of pounds in rent with nothing to show for it.

[GOONIESnvrSAYdie]

 

At last, you may be the first (newbie) to join the forum and be correct in the way of looking at owning a boat.

 

I reckon you have it sussed.

 

Good luck.

 

I try my best ha. Thank you.

 

 

In moving one you have twice the 'problems'. Double disruption to the fabric of the boat - blanking off the hole left by the existing location and making a new one. However, I suspect that in a boat with an existing stove, the layout will be such that there's no clear space into which move the unit. That's assuming you're talking about a conventional cast iron stove. I v'e seen photos on here recently with a Hurricane (?) drip feed diesel heater and that took up a lot less space. You have to consider 'safe working clearances' as well.

 

Stoves ted to be placed in the living area of a boat and that's the logical place for it - reinforcing my comments above, so it'll be a matter of fitting one n a boat that doesn't already have on - rather than moving it. Have a look at some of the layouts of boats for sale and you may see what I mean.

 

Our boat is 'reverse layout' - bedroom at the front, kitchen / living at the rear. Heat from the stove doesn't get as far as the bedroom. That suits The Management as we are subject to the adage -

Some like to freeze, while others smother,

By some fateful, fiendish chance,

they marry one another....

 

We have Mikuni central heating as well - but even though it's reasonably quiet, we do find that the noise intrudes quite a lot and if you'll be living in close proximity in a marina - the neighbours may complain of the constant whine.

 

Thanks for taking the time to provide all the insight, it's all really helping with making decisions.

 

 

Modern boat diesel engines are simpler than those fitted to cars. They are based on units which are widely used in plant and machinery so spares etc. are available. Many boaters service their own engines.

 

Or if you want a vintage diesel, they are again mostly simple to maintain, although parts can hard to find for some models.

 

Thanks David. That puts my mind at ease a little as the engine is such an important aspect whether you're on the move or living at a marina.

 

 

If it's a choice between buying a boat vs. renting a flat while saving in a Help to Buy ISA, buying a boat makes perfect sense to me. It would be 'money down the drain' to some extent, I guess, given that you'd be paying interest on a loan and the boat would most likely depreciate in value, but at least you'd own a boat at the end of it. That seems a lot easier to swallow than paying out thousands upon thousands of pounds in rent with nothing to show for it.

 

Exactly our thinking, and come the end of paying off our boat and saving up enough. We may decide to buy a house but stay on the boat. It does seem like the kind of life style that would really suit us. The only sad issue I have is no record collection. I'll be leaving that at my Dads for now.

[dmr]

 

I try my best ha. Thank you.

 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to provide all the insight, it's all really helping with making decisions.

 

 

 

Thanks David. That puts my mind at ease a little as the engine is such an important aspect whether you're on the move or living at a marina.

 

 

 

Exactly our thinking, and come the end of paying off our boat and saving up enough. We may decide to buy a house but stay on the boat. It does seem like the kind of life style that would really suit us. The only sad issue I have is no record collection. I'll be leaving that at my Dads for now.

 

There is a boat in the B'ham area that I have been passed a few times (and boaters always have a peep through other boat windows as they pass) that has a very large record (vinyl) collection. I guess you just have to avoid playing then on windy days and busy bits of the canal. You could always digitise the whole lot onto a iPad, you would still have the crackles, pops and end of side distortion to give you a warm feeling.

 

................Dave

[ditchcrawler]

 

There is a boat in the B'ham area that I have been passed a few times (and boaters always have a peep through other boat windows as they pass) that has a very large record (vinyl) collection. I guess you just have to avoid playing then on windy days and busy bits of the canal. You could always digitise the whole lot onto a iPad, you would still have the crackles, pops and end of side distortion to give you a warm feeling.

 

................Dave

Di said there was a pile of records at the waste point at Gailey yesterday when she dropped off rubbish

[MHS]

Hi GOONIESnvrSAYdie

 

Have you had a holiday on a narrowboat or been aboard one for any length of time?

 

Why not hire one now for a week? It's a cheap time of year to do it, and if you can enjoy being aboard in January, then you're probably well suited to living aboard.

[Ange]

To the OP I reckon you've got it sussed. You'll still have a very steep learning curve but this the place to ask those questions when you need to - it certainly saw us through ours in 2008.

 

Best of luck

[Ange]

Why is living on a boat cheaper than a flat/house to rent?

Well it has been for us - way cheaper. And a far better quality of life.

 

Don't do it - definition of BOAT - 'bring on another thousand' - lots of hidden costs in buying and living on a boat - stick with bricks and mortar - at least there is a chance it will appreciate in value.

 

L.

Yep the bring out another thousand was told to us ad infinitum when we were new and looking for our first boat. Every now and then over the past 6 years of living aboard full time we've had to shell out a few hundred quid unexpectedly for stuff like a broken drive plate or non functional lift pumps but we're definitely better off than we were and we're about to spend our first thousand for a new cratch cover.

 

We lost £30,000 on a buy to let property in the same period of time - bricks and mortar aren't always a safe investment.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Ange
autocorrect!

[Laurie Booth]

One thing I did want to ask, as I'm not very mechanically minded in the engine sense but do have a lot of car mechanic friends etc. If I ever have engine problems I assume I can call on their expertise for help? As one diesel engine is the same as the next really. Or do you need marine engine experts?

 

The only dealings I've had in the past with boat engines have been out boards we had on our family fishing boats.

You'll be OK with servicing the engine. Some boater will always show you how to do it, cost me a few pints though.

[Ange]

You'll be OK with servicing the engine. Some boater will always show you how to do it, cost me a few pints though.

Yep there's a wonderful world of boaty favours out there and the currency is usually the same

[John V]

I've been trying to quote Bottle's post but for some reason the forum won't let me at the moment........I just wanted to agree with him. It is really refreshing to get someone like you, who has done his research and now comes to ask sensible questions. Much preferable to the dreamers with stars in their eyes who you know are going to land like a sack of bricks. With your attitude, even if you end up by not liking the lifestyle and going after a house, you are going to get on fine........all the very best of luck

[mayalld]

 

Oh I knew about the difficulties in fitting one from scratch, I just meant the initial out lay for the stove wouldn't be as much as normal. Thanks for the tips though, much appreciated.

 

One question I do have though, as we may buy a boat with one already fitted and decide it would be better to re-position it. Do people find with it being at one end of the boat the heat transfers down the long distance to the other end? I've seen others where people move them down towards the kitchen/ more centrally. I know you will have central heating also, so maybe you don't need to worry so much about the stove heat making it's way to the bedroom?

 

 

We already have the dog. The family is already complete

 

 

 

The ideal mooring we want is in New Mills, Derbyshire. But if they are full as it's small and we have to wait, there's another one just 5 minutes from there at Furness Vale.

 

 

 

Cheers Dave.

 

 

 

It's not really a case of which is better financially really. It's just move out and buy a boat or move out and rent are the only two options we have. And we're far more in favor of buying a boat than renting. Even if boating ends up being more expensive, it's the life style choice that's drawing us to it more than one vs the other simply based financially.

 

Thanks for taking the time with the response, it's much appreciated.

 

New Mills is fine as a location for a liveaboard!

 

However, unless things have changed, FV doesn't accept liveaboards, so it will be a case of waiting for a space (which may mean cruising for a while until a mooring comes free)

[drverbrian]

Without wishing to offend people who have been on here, and on boats, a lot longer than us, I was having exactly this conversation with a couple on the canal bank yesterday. We have only been liveaboards for just over a year now and as such are setting ourselves up for ridicule by the longer term residents, BUT, I do not know where some people get there figures from and have wondered if there is an element of putting people off to protect a fabulous lifestyle.

 

Since moving from a house onto the cut we are definitely living a cheaper lifestyle. The rental income from the house more than covering the expenses of life afloat. Not an enormous palacial residence, a 3 bed estate family home. We started with a similar budget , 30 k ish, just a different way of financing it.

 

Loan repayment far less than average mortgage. We had been in our home a long time.

 

Gas, diesel and coal all together less than gas and electric into house.

 

Maintenance so far approx. similar.

 

Licence, cc don't understand why you would by a boat and then tie it up in a marina, far less than council tax Yes we do still both work.

 

To close I would say whenever I am asked I answer that we have no regrets give it a try and controversial bit: you can have a good life and save money.

 

 

[Larentia]

Marina wifi can be fairly useless, especially once you're in your boat (and not standing outside, which isn't best practical) so budget for mobile wifi - lots of threads on that around.

[philjman]

I'll reiterate the "buy it if you really want the boating lifestyle" not just to save money. I've also seen numerous people find it's not for them and sell the boat again (normally at a loss). But if you want the lifestyle it is awesome!

 

Do make sure you can helm it, we currently have two liveaboards in our marina who had never been on a boat prior to starting to live-aboard and they still (after 8 months) can't motor it to the pump-out and back without guidance from the marina staff!!!

 

Sounds like you have some boating background and are doing the sensible thing by renting for a week or two before you make a decision.

 

Oh and if you get a residential mooring it is possible you'll be liable to pay council tax (lowest band) as well as mooring fees. We pay about £800 a year council tax where we are.

 

All the best for your plans.

 

Phil

Edited January 5, 2016 by philjman

[zenataomm]

Your reasons for buying a boat are the wrong ones.

Fully understandable, I wouldn't want to be at the other end of my life struggling like youngsters do today.

 

The chances for it working satisfactorily stand the best hope if you've had numerous experiences of boating through holidays, weekends at different times of the year. It's nothing like owning a house or a car or even a caravan.

 

You need to want to progress your love for boats/canals and rivers to include living on board, not the other way round.

The very best of luck, but I wouldn't recommend it at this stage.

[GOONIESnvrSAYdie]

Your reasons for buying a boat are the wrong ones.

Fully understandable, I wouldn't want to be at the other end of my life struggling like youngsters do today.

 

The chances for it working satisfactorily stand the best hope if you've had numerous experiences of boating through holidays, weekends at different times of the year. It's nothing like owning a house or a car or even a caravan.

 

You need to want to progress your love for boats/canals and rivers to include living on board, not the other way round.

The very best of luck, but I wouldn't recommend it at this stage.

 

It was spending so much time on the canal throughout life that prompted me to suggest the idea to the other half. My dads house as a kid backed onto the canal so I spent months of my life sat there fishing away. We also walk the dog along the canal a couple of times a week, so to live on it seemed the next natural prospect.

 

To be honest, without thinking about the idea of a loan I never thought it possible without having all that money upfront. I'm not the type to ever borrow for anything. I have no debt and own everything out right I've ever owned. Thinking of a loan wasn't a natural thought process but living on the canal is something that's always interested me.

 

I often envy the boats I pass walking the dog, often stopping to chat with the owners and always walk past marina's really slowly having a good old nosy.

 

I did mention it wasn't a case of renting vs the boat, more a stating, that they were our only 2 options. Renting meaning we wouldn't need to go into debt etc.

 

I'm really appreciating all the responses though. It's really helpful to read impartial but accurate opinions from those who already live the life style. An eye opening insight in some answers. Things that would seem so obvious to a live-aboard but not so to someone on the outside looking in.

[George94]

Without wishing to offend people who have been on here, and on boats, a lot longer than us, I was having exactly this conversation with a couple on the canal bank yesterday. We have only been liveaboards for just over a year now and as such are setting ourselves up for ridicule by the longer term residents, BUT, I do not know where some people get there figures from and have wondered if there is an element of putting people off to protect a fabulous lifestyle.

 

Since moving from a house onto the cut we are definitely living a cheaper lifestyle. The rental income from the house more than covering the expenses of life afloat. Not an enormous palacial residence, a 3 bed estate family home. We started with a similar budget , 30 k ish, just a different way of financing it.

 

Loan repayment far less than average mortgage. We had been in our home a long time.

 

Gas, diesel and coal all together less than gas and electric into house.

 

Maintenance so far approx. similar.

 

Licence, cc don't understand why you would by a boat and then tie it up in a marina, far less than council tax Yes we do still both work.

 

To close I would say whenever I am asked I answer that we have no regrets give it a try and controversial bit: you can have a good life and save money.

 

 

 

Most people would be far better off in the long term by buying a house. Houses usually appreciate in value, whilst boats do the reverse.

[Southern Star]

 

Most people would be far better off in the long term by buying a house. Houses usually appreciate in value, whilst boats do the reverse.

Houses won't be appreciating in value when interest rates start to rise in the next few months. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, five years after I bought my first house for £46,500, it was worth £29,000.

[George94]

Houses won't be appreciating in value when interest rates start to rise in the next few months. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, five years after I bought my first house for £46,500, it was worth £29,000.

 

I suspect you missed the words "long term".

[Neil Smith]

Houses won't be appreciating in value when interest rates start to rise in the next few months. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, five years after I bought my first house for £46,500, it was worth £29,000.

How much would it be worth today.

 

Neil

[Southern Star]

How much would it be worth today.

 

Neil

Probably about £125,000, and my guess is that in 2020 it will be worth about £80,000. House prices go up, and they go down. They don't always go up, and they certainly won't be going up as interest rates rise.