Boat builder / manufacturer buying advice please.

[Athy]

i so want a trad with engine room and something big and thump thump thimp in it

Sounds as if the third cylinder needs attention.

[nicknorman]

Sounds as if the third cylinder needs attention.

I thought that WAS the sound of the third cylinder receiving attention - from a big hammer!

[Athy]

I thought that WAS the sound of the third cylinder receiving attention - from a big hammer!

[ARAL]

So, it would appear that the favourite choice would be a Beta or a Barrus (with around 40+ HP) if going for an under-floor installation, otherwise an old thumper? Does anyone know where I might find such a boat currently for sale for sensible money? Thanks as always.

P.S. (It was a few days ago, so I should probably reiterate) Preferably a semi-trad, 58 ft max. Thankyou.

[alan_fincher]

I still can't get my head around a semi-trad with any kind of old slow-revving engine in it.

 

Just me, I suppose, but in my head those two genres don't usually go together!

[ARAL]

I am just looking at some sales details for a boat with a Thornycroft T95 in it. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on this particular engine?

[Athy]

6

I am just looking at some sales details for a boat with a Thornycroft T95 in it. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on this particular engine?

Are ye no mad?

Did I guess correctly?

 

36hp, marinised industrial engine, probably a badged Mitsubishi.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Athy

[Loafer]

Talking of thump thump thimp, can anyone explain why my BD3 goes THUMP thump thump THUMP thump thump THUMP thump thump, with a strong emphasis on the first thump of every three?

 

And If I count the number of first THUMPs for one minute, does that give me my true RPM?

 

Sorry for the hijack!

[nicknorman]

Talking of thump thump thimp, can anyone explain why my BD3 goes THUMP thump thump THUMP thump thump THUMP thump thump, with a strong emphasis on the first thump of every three?

 

And If I count the number of first THUMPs for one minute, does that give me my true RPM?

 

Sorry for the hijack!

No, one thump per cylinder per 2 revs!

 

Anyway, perhaps the one cylinder has more compression than the others?

[Loafer]

No, one thump per cylinder per 2 revs!

 

 

Ah yes, I'm forgetting the inlet stroke aren't I?

 

Basics, Loafer basics.

 

I don't know about the compression, but as soon as I can track down Richard Milligan up here ('Blackhand') I'm going to get him to do an 'advanced' service, the stuff I don't do myself, like the tappets and stuff. Maybe he can check that too.

 

(I only do oil, both oil & fuel filters, air filter, gearbox oil and transmission nipples)

Edited December 14, 2015 by Loafer

[peterboat]

i can say why you get a thimp every now and then its because the u os ti close ti the i yio knie qjsy o nrsb

[Loafer]

i can say why you get a thimp every now and then its because the u os ti close ti the i yio knie qjsy o nrsb

 

I see...

[Athy]

i can say why you get a thimp every now and then its because the u os ti close ti the i yio knie qjsy o nrsb

Thanks for making that clear.

[Neil Smith]

I have had both Kubota and yanmar diggers and both are great long lasting engines, so when buying an engine for my new build I wanted one or the other and opted for a shire 38 which is actually 40hp as I got a great deal on it.

 

Neil

[Loafer]

I have had both Kubota and yanmar diggers and both are great long lasting engines, so when buying an engine for my new build I wanted one or the other and opted for a shire 38 which is actually 40hp as I got a great deal on it.

 

Neil

 

2 free horsepowers?

[Athy]

 

2 free horsepowers?

Buy 38, get 2 free. I can see the queue forming even now.

[Tacet]

I think the Shire is a fairly common engine, as you say based on a quality core engine. Personally I prefer the Beta but would struggle to say why with any proof!

 

I believe the Barrus 45 is direct injection whilst the Beta 43 is indirect - but whether that makes any real difference on a canal boat is another matter. The Barrus also has a twin thermostat arrangement to avoid excessive cooling by the domestic take-off.

 

We found the Barrus very good - starting at any temperature in any weather with no more than a glance at the key; there are no glowplugs. Only problem in several thousand hours was wear on pushrod ends where the adjusting screw bears. It has a single V belt driving two alternators and the water pump - but despite not being ideal in theory, is fine in practice. The later ones have different arrangements.

 

The more recent models have (at least some do) a lagged rather than a watercooled exhaust manifold, which seems a retrograde step, but have no idea whether it matters in real life.

 

My take is that there is little to chose between the base Kubota and Yanmar engines and not that much more between the modified Beta and Barrus versions.

[nicknorman]

I believe the Barrus 45 is direct injection whilst the Beta 43 is indirect - but whether that makes any real difference on a canal boat is another matter. The Barrus also has a twin thermostat arrangement to avoid excessive cooling by the domestic take-off.

 

We found the Barrus very good - starting at any temperature in any weather with no more than a glance at the key; there are no glowplugs. Only problem in several thousand hours was wear on pushrod ends where the adjusting screw bears. It has a single V belt driving two alternators and the water pump - but despite not being ideal in theory, is fine in practice. The later ones have different arrangements.

 

The more recent models have (at least some do) a lagged rather than a watercooled exhaust manifold, which seems a retrograde step, but have no idea whether it matters in real life.

 

My take is that there is little to chose between the base Kubota and Yanmar engines and not that much more between the modified Beta and Barrus versions.

 

Well just to "keep the Beta's end up" it too starts instantly in any (UK) weather without the need for heaters, although they are fitted.

[peterboat]

 

I believe the Barrus 45 is direct injection whilst the Beta 43 is indirect - but whether that makes any real difference on a canal boat is another matter. The Barrus also has a twin thermostat arrangement to avoid excessive cooling by the domestic take-off.

 

We found the Barrus very good - starting at any temperature in any weather with no more than a glance at the key; there are no glowplugs. Only problem in several thousand hours was wear on pushrod ends where the adjusting screw bears. It has a single V belt driving two alternators and the water pump - but despite not being ideal in theory, is fine in practice. The later ones have different arrangements.

 

The more recent models have (at least some do) a lagged rather than a watercooled exhaust manifold, which seems a retrograde step, but have no idea whether it matters in real life.

 

My take is that there is little to chose between the base Kubota and Yanmar engines and not that much more between the modified Beta and Barrus versions.

direct injection engines are supposed to gve better economy and given their lower compression ratio have a longer life how true that is in real life i have no idea but my barrus and kubota both started instantly so who cares i still want a thunper

[Albion]

direct injection engines are supposed to gve better economy and given their lower compression ratio have a longer life how true that is in real life i have no idea but my barrus and kubota both started instantly so who cares i still want a thunper

Ahem, I think you mean higher compression ratio.

Roger

[peterboat]

Ahem, I think you mean higher compression ratio.

Roger

no you are wrong di s run lower compression ratios 16/17 to 1 idi s 22/23 to 1 check the internet no variation

[Albion]

no you are wrong di s run lower compression ratios 16/17 to 1 idi s 22/23 to 1 check the internet no variation

That is very interesting and the internet does seem to support your assertion. However, I have always understood (for the following apparently logical reasons) that for an IDI and DI natural aspirated engine that it was the other way round. This info is pre-common rail injection systems, of course, where the injection process has changed so much that it alters the combustion knock characteristic of DI engines.

1. The pre combustion chamber of an IDI engine is an additional parasitic volume that tends to reduce compression ratio compared to the bowl in piston design of a DI.

2. For cold starting, a DI engine has to raise the temperature of the compressed air to the ignition point of the fuel (allowing for heat losses to the cylinder and piston metal) and that this required a higher compression ratio than that of an IDI which demands the aid of a heater plug to initiate combustion. An IDI will not normally start without the operation of heater plugs whereas, for starting, a DI does because it hasn't got them (for starting purposes).

3. That DI engines had a heavier audible knock on firing due to their higher compression ratio and also had to be built more robustly for the same reason.

I must try to remember where I was given that info.

Roger

[Neil Smith]

The yanmar engine in my digger has a pretty heater element in the inlet manifold that is activated when you turn the key anti clockwise but I never use it as it starts first turn even when minus 6c

 

Neil

[peterboat]

That is very interesting and the internet does seem to support your assertion. However, I have always understood (for the following apparently logical reasons) that for an IDI and DI natural aspirated engine that it was the other way round. This info is pre-common rail injection systems, of course, where the injection process has changed so much that it alters the combustion knock characteristic of DI engines.

1. The pre combustion chamber of an IDI engine is an additional parasitic volume that tends to reduce compression ratio compared to the bowl in piston design of a DI.

2. For cold starting, a DI engine has to raise the temperature of the compressed air to the ignition point of the fuel (allowing for heat losses to the cylinder and piston metal) and that this required a higher compression ratio than that of an IDI which demands the aid of a heater plug to initiate combustion. An IDI will not normally start without the operation of heater plugs whereas, for starting, a DI does because it hasn't got them (for starting purposes).

3. That DI engines had a heavier audible knock on firing due to their higher compression ratio and also had to be built more robustly for the same reason.

I must try to remember where I was given that info.

Roger

sorry roger modern stuff is exactly the same low compression for di s i had all the spec at work for all the jags we do, i agree with you it seems double dutch but the pre conbustion chamber allows a slower softer burn which is why they are quiet. modern di s have electronic injectors which start the process then feed in more fuel which is why they are so quiet as well

[ARAL]

So, at the risk of going backwards on this thread, does anyone have any thoughts on the Thornycroft engine(s)? Thankyou.