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Boat builder / manufacturer buying advice please.


ARAL

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Hello Alan, I am looking for a boat that is capable of travelling the entire British canal network. So it has to be a narrowboat, and I believe 60' is the maximum length (I used to believe that it was 57' but I have since been led to believe that the only locks that are 57' long are wide enough to take a 60' boat at an angle). I used to be OK with the idea of going to sea, but as the years go by I seem to get more seasick so I think I will have to stick to flat water! ;-)

(an aside - where did Alan get 'the Thames' from; I can only see Winchester??)

If on the Thames for most of the time then a 43 or 50 HP (preferably) would be best. The extra HP and at lower engine speed give you a bit of welly when you need to push upstream against a bit of current, or turn round with a bit of panache.

At sea - well, that's only for the intrepid and well prepared boat = NB Progress.

 

Don't get hung up too much about noise. An hospital silencer together with a water cooled manifold or in my case with less room - a fresh water cooled heat exchanger system works well. At canal speeds it's pretty well silent; quiet enough to hear the birds shouting and coos fartin'

AFAIK all / most Beta engines have watercooled manifolds - but I'm not so sure about other makes - older conversions probably not. Aprart from the noise deadening the engine room is cooler.

 

If you're attracted to a 'proper engine' then:-

  • You must enjoy the sound - the chuffer - chuffer of the exhaust is pleasantly calming and not loud
  • You need to consider whether the space it takes in a proper engine room is worth it - can you use it to dry wet clothes or as a workshop?
  • What would you do with the space between the engine room and your steering position(assuming that it's properly / traditionally located)
  • It needs loving care and attention as well as regular maintenance - neither of which are onerous
  • The boat will cost more than a les esoteric vessel - the engine is more expensive and there are less of them around.

Our boat is 60ft with a Beta 50HP and it's still too small, but it does have two loos, a decent sized bathroom, an airing cupboard, large larder and lots of storage for 'stuff'.

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So it has to be a narrowboat, and I believe 60' is the maximum length (I used to believe that it was 57' but I have since been led to believe that the only locks that are 57' long are wide enough to take a 60' boat at an angle).

 

60 foot, even diagonal in locks is pushing the absolute limits of some of the Northern canals, and whilst some say they have done i

the tightest at very close to that length, it involves a fair amount of hassle, including passing some locks facing back to front, because you can't get the gates open if facing the correct way.

 

If you really want free access to all the Northern canals, and don't want a real fight at some locks, I personally would not exceed 58 feet. Also I would be measuring whatever I bought very carefully to make sure it was not longer than what it was being sold as - our last boat was as far as I could determine about 10" longer than it was sold to us as.

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Hydraulic drive boats I have encountered always seem to have a horrendous whine.

Do a few of them contribute to this forum?

 

Aral, I have a trad engine (Gardner 2LW) so I am biased. But it is worth mentioning that, as such an engine is usually situated about ten feet in front of the steering position, it really need not be loud - especially if you keep the side doors closed. Many of us tend to keep them open, which we say helps prevent the engine from overheating, but in reality it's because we enjoy listening to it.

 

Do NOT even contemplate a boat which has a Lister SR2 or SR3 under the steering position - they do make a nice noise, but lots of it!

 

our last boat was as far as I could determine about 10" longer than it was sold to us as.

Is that what you told BW's licensing department?biggrin.png

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Is that what you told BW's licensing department?biggrin.png

 

As you probably know, the licence price is determined by bands for ranges of length. Provided two similar sizes fall in the same band, the cost of a licence doesn't change......

 

(Moorings, however!...... :lol:)

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Do NOT even contemplate a boat which has a Lister SR2 or SR3 under the steering position - they do make a nice noise, but lots of it!

 

 

Oh yes I can vouch for that ! our last boat had an SR3 .. very very noisey in a good listery sort of way and smoked to high heaven as well when cold .. Very good reliable engine though .

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Many thanks again; I'm learning much from everyone on this forum - all very useful (inside) information when looking to buy. I think I am fast coming to the conclusion that what I want / need is a 57 - 58 ft semi-trad with a good quality 40+ HP Beta under-floor engine with or without a hospital silencer. Hopefully that won't be too hard to find! ;-) What are people's thoughts generally about Barrus Shire engines? Any good?

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Yes we all know that, but don't tell the new chaps, the exclusivity will be diluted. And don't tell me it will boost the second hand price, that is only of any use if one wants to sell and why on earth would that be?

 

Only to get a bigger one!

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Many thanks again; I'm learning much from everyone on this forum - all very useful (inside) information when looking to buy. I think I am fast coming to the conclusion that what I want / need is a 57 - 58 ft semi-trad with a good quality 40+ HP Beta under-floor engine with or without a hospital silencer. Hopefully that won't be too hard to find! ;-)

Now, I am not a betting man, but if I was, I'd put a fiver on your looking round 45 boats which were almost-but-not-quite right, then seeing a totally different one, falling boatlessly in love with it and buying it even though it lacked half the features which you thought you wanted.

 

We'll see. But it will be an entertaining journey for you.

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Yes we all know that, but don't tell the new chaps, the exclusivity will be diluted. And don't tell me it will boost the second hand price, that is only of any use if one wants to sell and why on earth would that be?

 

Well you can get at least a £40K discount on the original price of this nearly new example.

 

Linky.

 

I still thing the colour may have something to do with the fact it is still not sold, though!

 

1426-01.jpg

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Well you can get at least a £40K discount on the original price of this nearly new example.

 

Linky.

 

I still thing the colour may have something to do with the fact it is still not sold, though!

 

 

 

Either that or not enough portholes and an underfloor engine. (Sorry, Nick!)

Edited by Loafer
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Well you can get at least a £40K discount on the original price of this nearly new example.

 

Linky.

 

I still thing the colour may have something to do with the fact it is still not sold, though!

 

And the lack of anywhere to eat. Why have a boat built without any dining facilities except for a bit of sticky-out kitchen worktop?

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You have to look at the base engine, for example most Betas are Kubota-based. However they also make one using a John Deere engine which is a completely different kettle fish.

 

Personally I think Beta / Kubota is the best of the modern engines, but then I'm biased! What Beta do offer is really good after sales service. I would avoid Vetus, they seem to give trouble and have very expensive spares. There are quite a few marinisers of Chinese engines these days ( Canaline I think?) which are OK but personally I would go for Japanese.

 

It's also worth looking at the alternator size and installation, Beta are good at pulley-ing their large alternators to produce lots of current at low revs, other marinisers are less good and you end up with alternators that only work properly at high revs.

Not exactly correct. Canaline marinise various engines but the ones that you are thinking of are by Kioti, which is a South Korean engine. Better quality than a Chinese engine IMO.

Roger

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Not exactly correct. Canaline marinise various engines but the ones that you are thinking of are by Kioti, which is a South Korean engine. Better quality than a Chinese engine IMO.

Roger

 

Yes I wasn't sure. Who are the marinisers of Chinese engines (if there are any)?

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Yes I wasn't sure. Who are the marinisers of Chinese engines (if there are any)?

Hmm, now you're asking. I've been out of the UK canal boat scene for some years now so can't be sure. There was a producer of Kingfisher (?) engines based on a Chinese core engine some years ago. They weren't terribly good IIRC and I think that they are no longer in existence. Other than that I cannot think of any but someone with more up to date knowledge might be able to help.

Roger

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Hmm, now you're asking. I've been out of the UK canal boat scene for some years now so can't be sure. There was a producer of Kingfisher (?) engines based on a Chinese core engine some years ago. They weren't terribly good IIRC and I think that they are no longer in existence. Other than that I cannot think of any but someone with more up to date knowledge might be able to help.

Roger

I thought Kingfishers were marinised Indian engines? They were imported and marinised by a company called Longboat Engineering. I think he stopped importing them when the emissions regulations changed and they no longer com[plied. Slow-revving jobs they were, I have seen a KD26 or two (the twin-cylinder model) in the engine rooms of modern trad-style craft.

 

EDIT: WRONG! Kingfisher were indeed based on Chinese engines. They were based in Dorset. I was confusing them with the "Greaves" engines imported by Longboat, which are indeed of Indian origin - as are the "CS" Lister-style units offered for sale by Redshaw's (I say offered because I heard earlier this year that they had sold only two of them).

Edited by Athy
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I thought Kingfishers were marinised Indian engines? They were imported and marinised by a company called Longboat Engineering. I think he stopped importing them when the emissions regulations changed and they no longer com[plied. Slow-revving jobs they were, I have seen a KD26 or two (the twin-cylinder model) in the engine rooms of modern trad-style craft.

Longboat Engineering imported Indian Greaves (formerly Ruston & Hornsby (India)) engines, not the Kingfisher ones, which I think might have been imported by a company on the South Coast.

 

Chris G

Edited by Batavia
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Longboat Engineering imported Indian Greaves (formerly Ruston & Hornsby (India)) engines, not the Kingfisher ones, which I think might have been imported by a company on the South Coast.

 

Chris G

Yes indeed, our posts crossed. Sorry.

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That may be it.

 

Iran, Turkey, India, most of the third world countries have had a go at vehicle and engine production

Mrs. Athy's new (well, ex-demo) Suzuki S-Cross, with which she is extremely pleased, was built in Hungary!

Well back to the OP, I think the point is that it's probably best to get a boat with a "mainstream" engine rather than something that may or may not have been imported from China, India or the near east.

Very sound advice, NN. Ours was re-imported from South Africa, but I know what you mean.

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