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davidc

Warcry Sally army

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I say again. I am talking about my experience of dealing with them (or rather those that volunteer for them) at grass roots level which I have experience of in a personal and professional capacity.

 

I am not interested in divulging the detail on here though.

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I say again. I am talking about my experience of dealing with them (or rather those that volunteer for them) at grass roots level which I have experience of in a personal and professional capacity.I am not interested in divulging the detail on here though.

Just as well you're straight then.

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Just as well you're straight then.

I'm not interested Nick in starting some sort of spat over my positive experiences. The fact they may indeed be organisationally homophobic is not something that interests me because that is a common feature of many religions and organisations related to religion and is one of the reasons I am not religious.

 

I have seen their front line volunteers do some very good work that is all I am saying, my recognising and respecting this is not some sort of affront to LBGT people.

 

Our local police force has been described as 'institutionally racist' on more than one occasion, that doesn't preclude me from saying that I have respect for and experience of the excellent work grass roots officers do.

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I'm not interested Nick in starting some sort of spat over my positive experiences. The fact they may indeed be organisationally homophobic is not something that interests me because that is a common feature of many religions and organisations related to religion and is one of the reasons I am not religious.I have seen their front line volunteers do some very good work that is all I am saying, my recognising and respecting this is not some sort of affront to LBGT people.Our local police force has been described as 'institutionally racist' on more than one occasion, that doesn't preclude me from saying that I have respect for and experience of the excellent work grass roots officers do.

I'm not proposing starting a spat, I merely wanted you to be aware of the true nature of the beast. Nearly everyone and every organisation has their good points and bad points. It then becomes a matter of whether the good points outweigh the bad points of vice versa. You don't see their worst points because you are straight. If you were gay your opinion would likely be different.

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I read the article. It seems that the Sally Army has moral standards and sticks to them. In what way is this wrong or reprehensible?

  • Greenie 1

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I read the article. It seems that the Sally Army has moral standards and sticks to them. In what way is this wrong or reprehensible?

They are not moral standards. By your statement you are effectively saying I am immoral, which I find offensive. Well I would do if it wasn't so pathetic of course. Dressing up bigotry and discrimination in the guise of religion just goes to show how crass religion is and how much harm it does in the world.

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They are not moral standards. By your statement you are effectively saying I am immoral, which I find offensive. Well I would do if it wasn't so pathetic of course. Dressing up bigotry and discrimination in the guise of religion just goes to show how crass religion is and how much harm it does in the world.

 

I posted earlier about them being homophobic, doesn't bother some it seems. They do other nice stuff so that's ok. Trains on time....

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I'm not proposing starting a spat, I merely wanted you to be aware of the true nature of the beast. Nearly everyone and every organisation has their good points and bad points. It then becomes a matter of whether the good points outweigh the bad points of vice versa. You don't see their worst points because you are straight. If you were gay your opinion would likely be different.

I am aware that religious zealots often have homophobic tendencies and know of no reason why the Sally Army should be much different. I am however capable of separating the work done by the volunteers in an organisation and the views of individuals within it, particularly those who define what it says and does publicly to define its (misplaced) beliefs, opinions and views.

 

Even if I hadn't been aware Sabcat had already pointed it out earlier in the thread BTW.

 

I posted earlier about them being homophobic, doesn't bother some it seems. They do other nice stuff so that's ok. Trains on time....

I have just referenced your earlier post and the reason I ignored it then is precisely defined by your misrepresentation of what I have said in your post quoted above.

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I am aware that religious zealots often have homophobic tendencies and know of no reason why the Sally Army should be much different. I am however capable of separating the work done by the volunteers in an organisation and the views of individuals within it, particularly those who define what it says and does publicly to define its (misplaced) beliefs, opinions and views.

Even if I hadn't been aware Sabcat had already pointed it out earlier in the thread BTW.

As I said everyone / thing has good and bad points. I'm sure there are some well meaning people in Islamic State, but that doesn't mean I want to praise them. The individuals should be "a'doing of good" in the name of a less horrendous organisation. That they don't realise this is fairly damning.

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I'd say more taking the piss than misrepresentation mate but yeah, both work

It depends really, I'd still go with misrepresenting because your aim to try and prove some sort of point and it suits you to do so.

As I said everyone / thing has good and bad points. I'm sure there are some well meaning people in Islamic State, but that doesn't mean I want to praise them. The individuals should be "a'doing of good" in the name of a less horrendous organisation. That they don't realise this is fairly damning.

I doubt comparing Sally Army with IS will not pass as being remembered as one of the daftest things said on comedy world for a while.

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As I said everyone / thing has good and bad points. I'm sure there are some well meaning people in Islamic State, but that doesn't mean I want to praise them. The individuals should be "a'doing of good" in the name of a less horrendous organisation. That they don't realise this is fairly damning.

are you comparing the sally army to the Islamic state

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I doubt comparing Sally Army with IS will not pass as being remembered as one of the daftest things said on comedy world for a while.

It's a pity you can't see the similarities. The primary difference is that IS exists in a lawless country where they can get away with doing anything they like, whereas the SA is bound by western laws and social norms. Strip away those controls and inhibitions and there ain't that much difference.

are you comparing the sally army to the Islamic state

 

Yes obviously, they are both very homophobic. IS likes to throw gays off the tops of buildings, SA, just wishes it could.

 

Mind you most of the organised Christian religions seem to be about grooming children for abuse, so far the SA haven't done that, or at least they haven't been found out yet.

Edited by nicknorman

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It's a pity you can't see the similarities. The primary difference is that IS exists in a lawless country where they can get away with doing anything they like, whereas the SA is bound by western laws and social norms. Strip away those controls and inhibitions and there ain't that much difference.

Yes obviously, they are both very homophobic. IS likes to throw gays off the tops of buildings, SA, just wishes it could.

Mind you most of the organised Christian religions seem to be about grooming children for abuse, so far the SA haven't done that, or at least they haven't been found out yet.

As I said I am capable of separating the work done and have seen the outcome for people, you maybe haven't, this to me is distinct from the ones who lead, direct and set their agenda.

 

At the level I have dealt with them religion or the organisational homophobia strangely was not evident, they just got on with their job.

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It's a pity you can't see the similarities. The primary difference is that IS exists in a lawless country where they can get away with doing anything they like, whereas the SA is bound by western laws and social norms. Strip away those controls and inhibitions and there ain't that much difference.

Yes obviously, they are both very homophobic. IS likes to throw gays off the tops of buildings, SA, just wishes it could.

 

Mind you most of the organised Christian religions seem to be about grooming children for abuse, so far the SA haven't done that, or at least they haven't been found out yet.

you know what get me is:

here we have volunteers who go out at night in all weathers to feed the homeless and poor there do not ask them there religion or there sexualy orintation or even who their vote for, their only concern is feeding them seeing that there are warm and not suffering any illness.

Then some self righteous individual compare them to a sick killing organisation who kills anyone no matter their religion , sexual orientation .

and then call them most likely closet paedophiles.

  • Greenie 2

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you know what get me is:

here we have volunteers who go out at night in all weathers to feed the homeless and poor there do not ask them there religion or there sexualy orintation or even who their vote for, their only concern is feeding them seeing that there are warm and not suffering any illness.

Then some self righteous individual compare them to a sick killing organisation who kills anyone no matter their religion , sexual orientation .

and then call them most likely closet paedophiles.

Yup, so what's your point? Volunteering to help the homeless is of course a "good thing", but why do it under the umbrella of a religious extremist group? And woe betide any of those homeless young men if it transpire they have been thrown out of the family home because they are gay. Who would want to be supported by people representing a group with the SA's "moral code"?

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They are not moral standards. By your statement you are effectively saying I am immoral, which I find offensive. Well I would do if it wasn't so pathetic of course. Dressing up bigotry and discrimination in the guise of religion just goes to show how crass religion is and how much harm it does in the world.

Just wondering Nick, are you saying you are gay?

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Just wondering Nick, are you saying you are gay?

Yes, I thought it was well known. Married to Jeff with whom I've been for 23 years now, but of course only recently allowed to marry, thanks to years of obstruction from organised religion. Which, if we are talking "morals", seems far better than so many heterosexual marriages which are all about spending a fortune on a wedding, and then despite the "'til death..." vows, getting bored with each other after a few years and divorcing, usually after some adultery.

Edited by nicknorman

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They are not moral standards. By your statement you are effectively saying I am immoral, which I find offensive.

You are talking through an inappropriate orifice. I am not a member of the Sally Army.

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Yup, so what's your point? Volunteering to help the homeless is of course a "good thing", but why do it under the umbrella of a religious extremist group? And woe betide any of those homeless young men if it transpire they have been thrown out of the family home because they are gay. Who would want to be supported by people representing a group with the SA's "moral code"?

sorry I'm not prepared to debate with a Close minded bigot

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This thread has now descended to personal abuse. It should be closed.

That would be fine by me. Everything that had to be said, has been said.

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Yes, I thought it was well known. Married to Jeff with whom I've been for 23 years now, but of course only recently allowed to marry, thanks to years of obstruction from organised religion. Which, if we are talking "morals", seems far better than so many heterosexual marriages which are all about spending a fortune on a wedding, and then despite the "'til death..." vows, getting bored with each other after a few years and divorcing, usually after some adultery.

Maybe if you want others to respect your views it might be a good idea to respect those of others too....even if they don't agree.

 

It did look a bit like you tried to draw Martin into an argument to push your view on sexuality though. Just my opinion.

 

I'm glad you've found happiness.

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