CO (the deadly gas)

[nicknorman]

How does wood compare to coal?

I think it will be much the same, carbon burning with limited oxygen causes the production of CO, doesn't matter too much what the source of the carbon is. Remember the cases of CO poisoning from disposable charcoal barbecues? Of course with coal you get other nasties like SO2 but then again, these are easier for humans to detect.

[Jerra]

How does wood compare to coal?

The website energysavingwales.org.uk syas:

 

under the heading why is burning wood better than burning coal or oil

 

Burning wood releases about 0.055 kg of CO2 per kWH compared to 0.3 for coal,

[nicknorman]

The website energysavingwales.org.uk syas:

 

under the heading why is burning wood better than burning coal or oil

 

Burning wood releases about 0.055 kg of CO2 per kWH compared to 0.3 for coal,

That is CO2, the topic is about CO!

[Jerra]

That is CO2, the topic is about CO!

Whoops!

[kingswood]

I have 3 co2 and 3 fire and 1 heat detector on my 40 ft boat just to be on the safe side

[Quaysider]

A couple of years ago, the better half and I ended up in hospital during a summer camping trip (on my birthday as it happened) due to use of a camping gas heater in the tent.

 

Totally self inflicted but I'd had said heater (and used it safely more times than I can remember) for over 10 years... inside a well ventilated tent. SCHOOL boy error that last time was new tent... more "weather proof" - less ventilation and too much wine to think straight.

 

Zipped up the tent (30ft x 8 ft) about 9pm and watched Skyfall on the laptop, finishing off the box of wine we'd started earlier...

 

Distinct chill in the air so thought we'd leave the fire on in the centre of the tent and retire for the night...

 

about 6 I woke up needing the loo and noticed the flame on the fire had gone blue - turned it off thinking "bugger, the gas is nearly out - 'hope there's enough left to cook breakfast".... other half got up about 8 and went into the other bedroom (read camping toilet) and shortly after that I heard a "thump" and on investigating found aforementioned partner, unconscious on the floor near the loo.

 

Bit of a panic (well lot of a panic actually) trying to call an ambulance but no phone signal - something clicked in my brain about the fire so I dragged us both outside as quicklly as possible... feeling a bit rough myself but presuming it was hangover. Other half put in recovery position and me running around the riverside trying to get a phone signal - when eventually found, 999 dialed only to find estimate time before ambulance would arrive was about 1 hour... later found out there had been industira action over something. On return, other half had come around enough to talk but looked terrible and was crying like a banshee.

 

SO - into car, windows, sunroof open and speedy drive to the nearest A and E I could think of (Friarage hospital in Northallerton) - all a bit vague from there as I passed out in the carpark and the next thing I remember was waking up on a trolley with hi flow oxygen being pumped. Other half was very poorly - me being 2 stone heavier, I could absorb more if with least effect if you follow... there was some talk about being sent to hull for the decompression chamber. We were both sent off to cdu for the night still on hi flow and spent the night being checked ever hour or so.

 

Luckily for us, by noon the doc came and said we could go home and discharged us to the care of our gp. No noticeable lasting issues other than memory problems but that could be down to age anyway.

 

SINCE then - as you might imagine, we've got alarms in the camping gear, take one with us on hire boats and have 2 in the house. I doubt we would be so lucky again.... also, never camp or moor in a place with no signal, or without noting the address (part of the panic not knowing the post code of the camp site) or bridge nearest bridge number / gps data.

 

All in all a scary, humbling experience and one of those times when you realise first hand, how fragile we all are.

 

Test your alarms regularly folks

[nicknorman]

I have 3 co2 and 3 fire and 1 heat detector on my 40 ft boat just to be on the safe side

Presumably the CO2 ones go off every time you breathe out?

[mango]

 

Fit alarms approved as meeting BS EN 50291-2; these are best suited for boats. Alarms with life-long batteries are available

The CO alarm manufacturer's association - CoGDEM has published a list of alarms produced by its members as suitable for boats.

If you have a Kitemarked alarm, tested to BS EN 50291, or 50291-1, the advice is to keep it, test it routinely and when it needs replacing, choose a unit tested to BS EN 50291-2 (suitable for boats)

Are we any nearer to making it mandatory to have at least one CO alarm in leisure boats?

[Machpoint005]

Are we any nearer to making it mandatory to have at least one CO alarm in leisure boats?

 

We haven't even got mandatory smoke alarms yet.

I, too, thought carbon monoxide was only produced when the combustion was incomplete, which is when the flue is blocked, which in turn sends the products of combustion into the boat?

[nicknorman]

We haven't even got mandatory smoke alarms yet.

I, too, thought carbon monoxide was only produced when the combustion was incomplete, which is when the flue is blocked, which in turn sends the products of combustion into the boat?

CO is produced any time a carbon based fuel is burnt with limited oxygen such as a stove with the air vents partially closed. In fact even with the vents and door open, having a large mass of hot carbon means oxygen can't get to it all and thus CO is inevitably produced. If you think of a gas flame, blue flame means sufficient oxygen has been mixed with the gas in the jet before burning. No CO (or very little, anyway). Yellow flame means there is not enough oxygen pre-mixed with the gas and lots of CO is being produced, despite the fact that the flame is burning freely in air. The oxygen from the air round about the flame can't penetrate sufficiently to prevent CO being produced.

[zenataomm]

Some years ago I allowed another boat to tie up alongside me at the bottom of Cowley lock. They all shot off to The Shovel for the afternoon, and then continued imbibing on their back deck well into the evening.

 

No problem, no excess noise or inconvenience. Then I lit my stove and went to bed.

I was awakned by the sound of my German Shepherd being sick and found the boat full of smoke.

Imagine the panic, being convinced my boat was ablaze I shoved my poor old dog up the steps and onto the deck. We both arrived retching and sick to rounds of applause and much hilarity.

My erstwhile neighbours had decided it was a super jest to slide their empty tinnies down my chimney and see how long before I exited in the afore mentioned manner.

I was declared a bit of a twat when I failed to see the joke and pointed out to them they might have had a much longer wait than they anticipated resulting in them explaining their sense of humour to a Coroner's Court.

 

I shan't finish the tale by describing how I paid them back as I know we have a sensitive bunch on here who don't support the principle that one good turn deserves

a smack in the teeth.

[nicknorman]

Some years ago I allowed another boat to tie up alongside me at the bottom of Cowley lock. They all shot off to The Shovel for the afternoon, and then continued imbibing on their back deck well into the evening.

 

No problem, no excess noise or inconvenience. Then I lit my stove and went to bed.

I was awakned by the sound of my German Shepherd being sick and found the boat full of smoke.

Imagine the panic, being convinced my boat was ablaze I shoved my poor old dog up the steps and onto the deck. We both arrived retching and sick to rounds of applause and much hilarity.

My erstwhile neighbours had decided it was a super jest to slide their empty tinnies down my chimney and see how long before I exited in the afore mentioned manner.

I was declared a bit of a twat when I failed to see the joke and pointed out to them they might have had a much longer wait than they anticipated resulting in them explaining their sense of humour to a Coroner's Court.

 

I shan't finish the tale by describing how I paid them back as I know we have a sensitive bunch on here who don't support the principle that one good turn deserves

a smack in the teeth.

Personally I would have called the police and had them prosecuted for attempted murder. A smack in the teeth only lasts a few hours or days, a criminal investigation, prosecution and potential criminal record and sentence lasts a lifetime.

 

Anyway, hopefully you did more than smacking the teeth, sinking their boat would have been a reasonable response - whilst they were in bed sleeping off a hangover, obviously!

[Loafer]

CO is produced any time a carbon based fuel is burnt with limited oxygen such as a stove with the air vents partially closed. In fact even with the vents and door open, having a large mass of hot carbon means oxygen can't get to it all and thus CO is inevitably produced. If you think of a gas flame, blue flame means sufficient oxygen has been mixed with the gas in the jet before burning. No CO (or very little, anyway). Yellow flame means there is not enough oxygen pre-mixed with the gas and lots of CO is being produced, despite the fact that the flame is burning freely in air. The oxygen from the air round about the flame can't penetrate sufficiently to prevent CO being produced.

 

Nicely put.

 

Why do so many people think that CO = CO2? Misunderstandings like that can cause all sorts of orrible things!

[mango]

 

We haven't even got mandatory smoke alarms yet.

I, too, thought carbon monoxide was only produced when the combustion was incomplete, which is when the flue is blocked, which in turn sends the products of combustion into the boat?

I was pleased to see both a CO and smoke alarm on an ABC hire boat this year.

 

Gas appliances don't produce much carbon monoxide when working properly. Solid fuel fires produce a lot of carbon monoxide because there is far more fuel than oxygen. I presume that what we see as flames is partly due to carbon monoxide burning where more oxygen is available, further away from the fuel. All you need is a faulty seal, a crack in the stove or chimney, or a blockage for fatal results.

[Loafer]

I was pleased to see both a CO and smoke alarm on an ABC hire boat this year.

 

Gas appliances don't produce much carbon monoxide when working properly. Solid fuel fires produce a lot of carbon monoxide because there is far more fuel than oxygen. I presume that what we see as flames is partly due to carbon monoxide burning where more oxygen is available, further away from the fuel. All you need is a faulty seal, a crack in the stove or chimney, or a blockage for fatal results.

 

That's not entirely true. Our 'Premier' back cabin stove is ALL cracks and unsealed joints. Once it's going, air is sucked INTO all the gaps, as evidenced by my lighter flame held close by. There's a CO alarm in the bed 'ole but it's never alarmed for reasons of the stove being lit.

 

However, sealing all those gaps made the stove much more controllable and easy to 'turn down' at night.

 

Blocked chimney though - that's not good.

[mango]

 

That's not entirely true. Our 'Premier' back cabin stove is ALL cracks and unsealed joints. Once it's going, air is sucked INTO all the gaps, as evidenced by my lighter flame held close by. There's a CO alarm in the bed 'ole but it's never alarmed for reasons of the stove being lit.

 

However, sealing all those gaps made the stove much more controllable and easy to 'turn down' at night.

 

Blocked chimney though - that's not good.

Yes, the chimney effect effectively produces a slight vacuum, so that most leakage will be out rather than in. It's still a good idea to keep door seals clean and in good condition, replace cracked door glass and look for other leaks in case of an accidental blockage. Someone mentioned a loose tarpaulin in this or another discussion.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

A couple of years ago, the better half and I ended up in hospital during a summer camping trip (on my birthday as it happened) due to use of a camping gas heater in the tent.

 

Totally self inflicted but I'd had said heater (and used it safely more times than I can remember) for over 10 years... inside a well ventilated tent. SCHOOL boy error that last time was new tent... more "weather proof" - less ventilation and too much wine to think straight.

 

Zipped up the tent (30ft x 8 ft) about 9pm and watched Skyfall on the laptop, finishing off the box of wine we'd started earlier...

 

Distinct chill in the air so thought we'd leave the fire on in the centre of the tent and retire for the night...

 

about 6 I woke up needing the loo and noticed the flame on the fire had gone blue - turned it off thinking "bugger, the gas is nearly out - 'hope there's enough left to cook breakfast".... other half got up about 8 and went into the other bedroom (read camping toilet) and shortly after that I heard a "thump" and on investigating found aforementioned partner, unconscious on the floor near the loo.

 

Bit of a panic (well lot of a panic actually) trying to call an ambulance but no phone signal - something clicked in my brain about the fire so I dragged us both outside as quicklly as possible... feeling a bit rough myself but presuming it was hangover. Other half put in recovery position and me running around the riverside trying to get a phone signal - when eventually found, 999 dialed only to find estimate time before ambulance would arrive was about 1 hour... later found out there had been industira action over something. On return, other half had come around enough to talk but looked terrible and was crying like a banshee.

 

SO - into car, windows, sunroof open and speedy drive to the nearest A and E I could think of (Friarage hospital in Northallerton) - all a bit vague from there as I passed out in the carpark and the next thing I remember was waking up on a trolley with hi flow oxygen being pumped. Other half was very poorly - me being 2 stone heavier, I could absorb more if with least effect if you follow... there was some talk about being sent to hull for the decompression chamber. We were both sent off to cdu for the night still on hi flow and spent the night being checked ever hour or so.

 

Luckily for us, by noon the doc came and said we could go home and discharged us to the care of our gp. No noticeable lasting issues other than memory problems but that could be down to age anyway.

 

SINCE then - as you might imagine, we've got alarms in the camping gear, take one with us on hire boats and have 2 in the house. I doubt we would be so lucky again.... also, never camp or moor in a place with no signal, or without noting the address (part of the panic not knowing the post code of the camp site) or bridge nearest bridge number / gps data.

 

All in all a scary, humbling experience and one of those times when you realise first hand, how fragile we all are.

 

Test your alarms regularly folks

 

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/stay-safe/carbon-monoxide-%28co%29/recognise-the-signs!/

[Emerald Fox]

Not this, then?

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ed/47/5e/ed475e565f85687ce0cefce78ac8d72e.jpg

[kingswood]

Presumably the CO2 ones go off every time you breathe out?

oppps

[mango]

I imagine fire-breathing dragons died out because of carbon monoxide poisoning.

[pquinn]

Some years ago I allowed another boat to tie up alongside me at the bottom of Cowley lock. They all shot off to The Shovel for the afternoon, and then continued imbibing on their back deck well into the evening.

 

No problem, no excess noise or inconvenience. Then I lit my stove and went to bed.

I was awakned by the sound of my German Shepherd being sick and found the boat full of smoke.

Imagine the panic, being convinced my boat was ablaze I shoved my poor old dog up the steps and onto the deck. We both arrived retching and sick to rounds of applause and much hilarity.

My erstwhile neighbours had decided it was a super jest to slide their empty tinnies down my chimney and see how long before I exited in the afore mentioned manner.

I was declared a bit of a twat when I failed to see the joke and pointed out to them they might have had a much longer wait than they anticipated resulting in them explaining their sense of humour to a Coroner's Court.

 

I shan't finish the tale by describing how I paid them back as I know we have a sensitive bunch on here who don't support the principle that one good turn deserves

a smack in the teeth.

I also found a beer can in my flue.Dont know how long it was there.

[cuthound]

I imagine fire-breathing dragons died out because of carbon monoxide poisoning.

Depends on which fuel they used. If it was hydrogen, then I don't think CO would be produced

[MtB]

I also found a beer can in my flue.Dont know how long it was there.

 

 

Good thing it wasn't in the flue of your stove then!

[1agos]

Where and what level is the best place for a CO alarm. We only have one on the boat at the moment which is 2foot away from the Epping stove at mid height - is that optimum position? It is a Firehawk CO78 from Midland Chandlers.

 

After reading this thread I will be going to get another one today for the bedroom - again should it be high low or mid level.

 

Thanks

Andy

[MtB]

Where and what level is the best place for a CO alarm. We only have one on the boat at the moment which is 2foot away from the Epping stove at mid height - is that optimum position? It is a Firehawk CO78 from Midland Chandlers.

 

After reading this thread I will be going to get another one today for the bedroom - again should it be high low or mid level.

 

Thanks

Andy

 

 

Best place is by the pillow where you sleep, not near the stove.