H & S in a marina

[lesrollins]

Thank you for your replies.

I have been in the marina for just over a year and feel that it as been allowed to become " a little worn " The pontoon/jetty comprises of wooden boards with small lathes on every other board. Some boards have been replaced and the lathes are being replaced with thin anti slip strips. There is and hand rail along the pontoon/jetty. The boards are very slippery when wet and the lathes cause a trip hazard. My boat is moored at one of the furthest points from the car park due to its length. Close to my boat is a yard which is let out by the marina to a couple of businesses which as a locked gate to allow access to the sheds. This area also contains the elsan point. I have asked for a key to the gate to allow easy access rather than risk of injury whilst the jetty is having its work done. And looking at some of the boards which have deteriated over years rather than months I am not sure how long the work may take. I know certain people who have health problems that have got keys to the gate but they have insisted no more keys will be given out. I have a loss of left leg which I have had since the age of 17 I have never claimed any disability and worked all my life but sometimes there are certain situations that are a little more difficult than compared with an able bodied person. I know that able bodied people have also slipped and one girl actually fell into the canal but wether she slipped or misjudged I am not sure. The only answer I got was that in certain words if the marina is not suitable we will be sorry to see you go

[CDS]

what part are you struggling to believe? It's quite simple really I take responsibility for my own actions and don't try to blame my bad judgements or mistakes on someone else, if your mooring is a bit dodgy you can stay and improve it,or move on until you find what you want, or the modern choice stay there moaning, then try and sue someone when you fall over the thing you have been moaning about for the last year

A capitalist owns a marina where I moor a boat,its my responsibility to maintain it for him?

[craftycarper]

Thank you for your replies.

I have been in the marina for just over a year and feel that it as been allowed to become " a little worn " The pontoon/jetty comprises of wooden boards with small lathes on every other board. Some boards have been replaced and the lathes are being replaced with thin anti slip strips. There is and hand rail along the pontoon/jetty. The boards are very slippery when wet and the lathes cause a trip hazard. My boat is moored at one of the furthest points from the car park due to its length. Close to my boat is a yard which is let out by the marina to a couple of businesses which as a locked gate to allow access to the sheds. This area also contains the elsan point. I have asked for a key to the gate to allow easy access rather than risk of injury whilst the jetty is having its work done. And looking at some of the boards which have deteriated over years rather than months I am not sure how long the work may take. I know certain people who have health problems that have got keys to the gate but they have insisted no more keys will be given out. I have a loss of left leg which I have had since the age of 17 I have never claimed any disability and worked all my life but sometimes there are certain situations that are a little more difficult than compared with an able bodied person. I know that able bodied people have also slipped and one girl actually fell into the canal but wether she slipped or misjudged I am not sure. The only answer I got was that in certain words if the marina is not suitable we will be sorry to see you go

. If your not happy there move on, if more people did this the crap marinas would soon be empty and have the choice of improving things or going bust

[Jerra]

. You work and make a living from H and S I,m guessing, I was brought up by my nan, who survived for 100 years,saw two world wars the coming of the motor car, mans first flight, and loads of other things that make you proud to be a human, all those things happened completely unhindered and unaffected by H and S, all I see in your modern H and S world is a noose slowly tightening around the neck of the human animal, a classic example that we all see is mans lack of ability to cross an empty road unless the green man flashes and bleeps to allow it, kids have learnt not to touch the fire by burning there fingers for years and years, but not for much longer because they are so wrapped in cotton wool they will never be allowed to burn there finger, it's all just dumbing down the human being until we are just brain dead tax paying zombies that only jump when we are told to, sorry but I will carry on making my own decisions for as long as I possibly can thanks,

So it is purely coincidence that work related deaths have more or less halved in the last 20 years? Nothing to do with H & S at all?

[craftycarper]

A capitalist owns a marina where I moor a boat,its my responsibility to maintain it for him?

or move if your not happy, I think there may be a little bit of a class war issue here, a bit like the fat lazy types that live in council houses and refuse to do any home improvements because it's not there responsibility, if you want to live in shit, no one is stopping you in much the same way as they would not stop you if you wanted to make your space a bit better, after all it's you that has to live there not your capitalist landlord, your choice

So it is purely coincidence that work related deaths have more or less halved in the last 20 years? Nothing to do with H & S at all?

can't actually find the bit were I said that

[Machpoint005]

So it is purely coincidence that work related deaths have more or less halved in the last 20 years? Nothing to do with H & S at all?

 

I might add that it's purely coincidence that the death and serious injury rates in construction and agriculture industries are the highest, and these same industries have been the slowest to embrace 21st century H&S standards?

 

take up

[mayalld]

A capitalist owns a marina where I moor a boat,its my responsibility to maintain it for him?

 

No, but you can maintain it for yourself.

 

Add a safety ladder for your own use, and when you leave you take the ladder with you.

 

When I moored at New Mills, the pontoons were very ramshackle. One boater decided he wanted a nice pontoon, so he rebuilt his own pontoon (with their approval).

 

A month later, they announced that they needed to move boats around, and he was allocated to a different pontoon. By some strange co-incidence, their show boat was allocated to the nice new pontoon.

 

Colin didn't say a word. He just went back to his boat and started dismantling his new pontoon, and responded to their query as to what was he doing by telling them that he was moving his stuff to his new mooring.

[craftycarper]

Its hard to believe we had two thirds of the world under our control,nowadays you couldn't find enough Englishmen to invade the Isle of Man

I know I'm not the sharpest chisel in the box, but sorry if I fail to see any relevance between the British empire and health and safety, personally I have know interest in invading anyone, and empire building has been a massive failure since it started, we just have not learned that yet

[Jim Riley]

As a capitalist landlord I would rather do the work myself, quality control etc. A recent tenant "improved" the decor without asking, purple gloss paint on chimney breast and alcoves. Took several hours and coats of paint to cover. He lost his deposit.

There's also the question of liability, if you replace a pontoon plank and it fails you are liable.

[Jerra]

can't actually find the bit were I said that

You didn't but the implication was that H & S was useless and holding things back. If you were a relative of one of (still sadly too many) people who die because of work related deaths you might wish H & S was ven more powerful and active.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[craftycarper]

You didn't but the implication was that H & S was useless and holding things back. If you were a relative of one of (still sadly too many) people who die because of work related deaths you might wish H & S was ven more powerful and active.

 

Just my opinion of course.

well sadly I,m not but I am a relative of someone that's just been fined £26,000 because he employed someone on the back of a pack of lies, who then fell from a scaffold that he had made unsafe by removing all the decking boards after a liquid lunch, oh and he decided not to wear the safety harness that he had been supplied, the victim now drives around in a brand new Audi convertible, while my lad has had to sell the company to settle the legal bills, seems like a really good system can't believe I fail to embrace it at face value, the only people really benefiting from it are the lawyers and scammers sorry but that's my view of it

[GreyLady]

well sadly I,m not but I am a relative of someone that's just been fined £26,000 because he employed someone on the back of a pack of lies, who then fell from a scaffold that he had made unsafe by removing all the decking boards after a liquid lunch, oh and he decided not to wear the safety harness that he had been supplied, the victim now drives around in a brand new Audi convertible, while my lad has had to sell the company to settle the legal bills, seems like a really good system can't believe I fail to embrace it at face value, the only people really benefiting from it are the lawyers and scammers sorry but that's my view of it

That would Infuriate me, I see why your a bit pisst off In this thread.

 

understandable

[tree monkey]

well sadly I,m not but I am a relative of someone that's just been fined £26,000 because he employed someone on the back of a pack of lies, who then fell from a scaffold that he had made unsafe by removing all the decking boards after a liquid lunch, oh and he decided not to wear the safety harness that he had been supplied, the victim now drives around in a brand new Audi convertible, while my lad has had to sell the company to settle the legal bills, seems like a really good system can't believe I fail to embrace it at face value, the only people really benefiting from it are the lawyers and scammers sorry but that's my view of it

And on the other hand

 

I work in a bloody dangerous industry and my previous role was in an even more dangerous sector of my industry and I have seen H&S improve the equipment and work methods massively.

with out that drive I doubt half the inovations that are now in daily use would exist.

Yes sometimes stuff can get taken too far but I for one am grateful for it all overall

[Tim Lewis]

Thank you for your replies.

I have been in the marina for just over a year and feel that it as been allowed to become " a little worn " The pontoon/jetty comprises of wooden boards with small lathes on every other board. Some boards have been replaced and the lathes are being replaced with thin anti slip strips. There is and hand rail along the pontoon/jetty. The boards are very slippery when wet and the lathes cause a trip hazard. My boat is moored at one of the furthest points from the car park due to its length. Close to my boat is a yard which is let out by the marina to a couple of businesses which as a locked gate to allow access to the sheds. This area also contains the elsan point. I have asked for a key to the gate to allow easy access rather than risk of injury whilst the jetty is having its work done. And looking at some of the boards which have deteriated over years rather than months I am not sure how long the work may take. I know certain people who have health problems that have got keys to the gate but they have insisted no more keys will be given out. I have a loss of left leg which I have had since the age of 17 I have never claimed any disability and worked all my life but sometimes there are certain situations that are a little more difficult than compared with an able bodied person. I know that able bodied people have also slipped and one girl actually fell into the canal but wether she slipped or misjudged I am not sure. The only answer I got was that in certain words if the marina is not suitable we will be sorry to see you go

 

One of the basic tenets of modern helath & safety legislation is that you are as responsible for your safety as your landlord/employer. If you see something that is dangerous but ignore it and have an accident you are as responsible as anyone for the accident. All our sites have posters up saying 'This person is responsible for your safety today' they are above mirrors.

 

Tim

[lesanne]

I would politley write to the marina highlighting the areas that could benefit from some improvement and ask for specific replies to your comments, all nice and friendly of course.

After that, if you don't feel you have been treated professionally there are a number of avenues you can follow. If there are serious safety issues we all have a duty of care to highlight them for yourself and others who use the facility.

As said earlier, the marina operators also have a duty of care to its users.

I woulnt feel too bad about exposing them if that duty is neglected.

Having said that, if they do make substantial improvements, expect the fees to go up.

[PaulG]

The British Marine Federation publish a useful guide to marina H&S:

 

http://www.onboardonline.com/assets/HSE-Guide-4-Marinas-and-Boatyards.pdf

 

This deals with many of the issues that you raise.

 

I'd give them a copy (anonymously if you fear retaliation!).

 

If you wanted to be more specific, you could just print up the relevant pages...

[Dave_P]

. You work and make a living from H and S I,m guessing, I was brought up by my nan, who survived for 100 years,saw two world wars the coming of the motor car, mans first flight, and loads of other things that make you proud to be a human, all those things happened completely unhindered and unaffected by H and S, all I see in your modern H and S world is a noose slowly tightening around the neck of the human animal, a classic example that we all see is mans lack of ability to cross an empty road unless the green man flashes and bleeps to allow it, kids have learnt not to touch the fire by burning there fingers for years and years, but not for much longer because they are so wrapped in cotton wool they will never be allowed to burn there finger, it's all just dumbing down the human being until we are just brain dead tax paying zombies that only jump when we are told to, sorry but I will carry on making my own decisions for as long as I possibly can thanks,

You guess wrong then. I tend to agree with a lot of what you say. Wrapping children in cotton wool is a bad thing IMO. However, paying a business for goods or services places both a moral and legal responsibility on the provider. Its a completely different thing. I'm glad your nan lived for 100 years, she was one of the lucky ones. It doesn't change the fact that, when she was born, thousands of people died every year at the hands of unscrupulous employers who were laughing all the way to the bank.

 

I'm not one for guessing, but since you did, maybe I'll guess that you're one of those unscrupulous employers, or are descended from them (but you know what they about assuming things).

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

I just read the rest of thread. It seems I wasn't far wrong then. Again, sympathies for your relative but if you want to run a business, you have to take the responsibilities which go with it.

 

FYI, I was in line to inherit a 100 year old family construction business, except my dad and and NIgel Lawson conspired to run it into the ground 20something years ago. Not that I'm bitter or anything

Edited November 26, 2015 by Dave_P

[lesanne]

what part are you struggling to believe? It's quite simple really I take responsibility for my own actions and don't try to blame my bad judgements or mistakes on someone else, if your mooring is a bit dodgy you can stay and improve it,or move on until you find what you want, or the modern choice stay there moaning, then try and sue someone when you fall over the thing you have been moaning about for the last year

No offense Mr Carper, but if the if the original poster's mooring is in disrepair he will have no business fixing it himself as it does not belong to him.

[Graham Davis]

Thank you for your replies.

I have been in the marina for just over a year and feel that it as been allowed to become " a little worn " The pontoon/jetty comprises of wooden boards with small lathes on every other board. HOW HIGH ARE THESE LATHS?

Some boards have been replaced and the lathes are being replaced with thin anti slip strips. NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

There is and hand rail along the pontoon/jetty. NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

The boards are very slippery when wet OBVIOUSLY, BUT IT APPEARS THAT THINGS HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE TO MITIGATE THAT PROBLEM.

and the lathes cause a trip hazard. HOW HIGH ARE THESE LATHS?

My boat is moored at one of the furthest points from the car park due to its length. Close to my boat is a yard which is let out by the marina to a couple of businesses which has a locked gate to allow access to the sheds. SURELY THAT PROVIDES SECURITY FOR THAT BUSINESS?

This area also contains the elsan point. SEEMS REASONABLE

I have asked for a key to the gate to allow easy access rather than risk of injury whilst the jetty is having its work done. ERR. WHAT WORK IS BEING DONE?

And looking at some of the boards which have deteriated over years rather than months I am not sure how long the work may take. SO THEY ARE DOING MAINTENANCE WORK AT THE MOMENT?

I know certain people who have health problems that have got keys to the gate but they have insisted no more keys will be given out. HAVE YOU ASKED FOR AN EXPLANATION OF THAT DECISION?

I have a loss of left leg which I have had since the age of 17 I have never claimed any disability and worked all my life but sometimes there are certain situations that are a little more difficult than compared with an able bodied person. I'M SORRY TO HEAR THAT BUT REALLY IT HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH THIS MATTER

I know that able bodied people have also slipped and one girl actually fell into the canal but wether she slipped or misjudged I am not sure. SO NOT RELEVANT WITHOUT MORE DETAILS.

The only answer I got was that in certain words if the marina is not suitable we will be sorry to see you go

Edited November 26, 2015 by Graham Davis

[magictime]

Deleted - straying into the area of speculation about identifiable people/employers involved in legal action over H & S.

 

Craftycarper, can I suggest that the specific figure you quote for the fine received by your relative makes such speculation too easy & potentially enables the identification of the person you accuse of telling lies & falling after a "liquid lunch".

Edited November 26, 2015 by magictime

[CDS]

I know I'm not the sharpest chisel in the box, but sorry if I fail to see any relevance between the British empire and health and safety, personally I have know interest in invading anyone, and empire building has been a massive failure since it started, we just have not learned that yet

Wouldn't have guessed that.Your the one raising the past.

 

 

No, but you can maintain it for yourself.

 

Add a safety ladder for your own use, and when you leave you take the ladder with you.

 

When I moored at New Mills, the pontoons were very ramshackle. One boater decided he wanted a nice pontoon, so he rebuilt his own pontoon (with their approval).

 

A month later, they announced that they needed to move boats around, and he was allocated to a different pontoon. By some strange co-incidence, their show boat was allocated to the nice new pontoon.

 

Colin didn't say a word. He just went back to his boat and started dismantling his new pontoon, and responded to their query as to what was he doing by telling them that he was moving his stuff to his new mooring.

Strange world when I pay for a service to be supplied then do it myself.Someone rents from a private landlord,water pours through the roof,

you really do talk some rubbish

Edited November 26, 2015 by CDS

[craftycarper]

Deleted - straying into the area of speculation about identifiable people/employers involved in legal action over H & S.

 

Craftycarper, can I suggest that the specific figure you quote for the fine received by your relative makes such speculation too easy & potentially enables the identification of the person you accuse of telling lies & falling after a "liquid lunch".

I don't care if it leads to being identified its all true and was proven, the £26 grand was the best deal we could have hoped for, had the case been lost it would have had another 100k stuck on it

Wouldn't have guessed that.Your the one raising the past.

 

 

Strange world when I pay for a service to be supplied then do it myself.Someone rents from a private landlord,water pours through the roof,

you really do talk some rubbish

fix it or cry it's still your home and your choice, but as is becoming quite clear you would rather moan,

[Dave_P]

I don't care if it leads to being identified its all true and was proven,

This one?

 

Bristol-based Tubular Access Scaffolds Limited has been fined more than £26,000 after an employee fell nine metres.

Bristol Magistrates’ Court heard how a man was dismantling a scaffold structure when he fell, causing life-changing head injuries.

An investigation by the Health & Safety Executive (HSE) into the incident, which occurred on 23rd July 2013, at Berkley Crescent, Clifton, found no evidence of any preventative measures taken by the company before the incident.

Tubular Access Scaffolds Limited, of Duckmoor Road, Ashton, was fined a total of £26,250, after pleading guilty to offences under Regulation 4(1) of the Work at Height Regulations 2005.

HSE principal inspector Helena Tinton said after the hearing: “If the company had managed a safe system of work with properly trained and equipped scaffolders, then the employee would not have suffered such terrible injuries.”

 

What's true then? That your relative's company did not operated safe systems of work, did not adequately train their staff and did not properly equip them? If so, they're lucky the victim wasn't killed and a charge of corporate manslaughter brought.

[Guest]

...mmm linky no worky.

Edited November 26, 2015 by MJG

[Loafer]

Its hard to believe we had two thirds of the world under our control,nowadays you couldn't find enough Englishmen to invade the Isle of Man

 

Who would want to do that!