Runcorn locks - restoration?

[ditchcrawler]

We did the same in 2014, but when we were there this year, there was a bizarre "wall" constructed of pallets loaded with bags of garden-centre peat and compost running between the Weaver and Ship Canal banks. My guess is that it's to prevent vehicle access for fly-tipping, but it's an effective pedestrian barrier too. We liberated a few bags to build a bit of a ramp up one side so we could see over the top, but to cross it you'd need to do the same on the far side to get down again.

 

MP.

[nebulae]

Yes,thank you Pluto for that image of Parr Lock. Dont think I ever knew its name. The spire of the Mariners church,in the background gives a rough idea of its location.Next time I am there,I will have another look for it. As it was still passable(just) in early to mid 60"s the deteriation in 10 years is rather sobering. I would love to think that it could be reopened,but not very likely I suspect. To re-instate the Runcorn and Weston,to access the old flight by Bridgewater House,to re-instate the old Runcorn flight and re-instate the upper flight,as well as carry the flight through(over) the bridge access road would be a mighty undertaking.

[nebulae]

Have looked up the Runcorn and Weston Canal in Bradshaws.,who states that there are(were) two locks between the new flight of Runcorn Locks and the junction with the Weston Canal. .Parrs Lock was 21/2 furlongs from the new flight and Railway Lock was 6 furlongs from the new flight. The entrance to the canal from the Weston Canal was 1 mile 21/2 furlongs from the new flight. No mention of the entrance lock from the Weston Canal? .Looking at Pluto"s picture with the old dock railway bridge in view,I wonder if this might be Railway Lock .More complicated by the fact that the nearest lock to Runcorn was moved in 1876, My Bradshaws is the 1904 edition .Further complicated by the Runcorn end of the canal being enlarged to become the Alfred and Francis Docks.

[Scholar Gypsy]

I had a bit of a play on google earth. I think the derelict lock being discussed is at X, and the "missing" section between A and B?

 

 

 

[Laurence Hogg]

This link shows all three locks and is over a satellite image from today:

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=53.3338&lon=-2.7655&layers=6

[Scholar Gypsy]

This link shows all three locks and is over a satellite image from today:

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=53.3338&lon=-2.7655&layers=6

 

That is a seriously addictive website! Many thanks.

 

I think I got a bit confused between railways and canals.

[Ian Mac]

I believe there were three locks on the Runcorn and Weston, the one LH refered to at the junction with the Weaver navigation at Grid ref SJ49628115 (eight figure references used.) The the lock Pluto refered to as Par Lock at SJ49578195 was probably Railway lock as in Bradshaws, the line can be seen crossing the canal below the lock, and then Fenton lock? (by Fenton Dock, this could be the Par Lock of Bradshaws at SJ49988249. The canal then joined onto the old flight just above the first staircase pair off the Ship canal by Bridgewater house. The New line intersects this line as it goes down and into the eastern corner of the Tidal Dock. There was one lock between the R&W and the Tidal dock This dock is now just a dock off the side of the MSC. INterestingly there was one staircase pair to achieve the same fall on the Old Lock line. The rise of the weston lock is about 4ft if the other two are similar this nearly adds up.

[Pluto]

This is a map of Runcorn, with Parr lock to the right.

 

This is a view further towards Weston Point, with Pluto the dog.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Pluto

[Scholar Gypsy]

Thanks again. I confiused myself my this section on the unlock runcorn website:

 

Such was the great expansion of waterborne merchandise passing up and down them that it was necessary to build a second new line completed in 1828. For over 160 years flats and narrow boats locked up and down them in great numbers. The new line of locks was used for traffic heading to Manchester, while the old line was used for traffic passing down to the Mersey. The Runcorn and Weston Canal was built in 1858–59, providing a connection between Runcorn Docks and the Weaver Navigation.

 

.. and of course this sentence refers

• to traffic from the Liverpool docks heading to Manchester along the Bridgewater canal, before the MSC was built.#
• and then to traffic from say the T&M heading down to the Mersey.

 

I assume the lock from the MSC into the Mersey is out of use as well - it looks like it on the satellite photos.

 

I really must do the trip on a Mersey ferry from Liverpool to Manchester ....

[nebulae]

Done the trip with Coop travel from Manchester to Liverpool. Really enjoyied it. Although I lived in Runcorn for several years and thought I knew the area well,I have learnt much from this thread. Hard to believe that not only the canal,but a whole community including a hotel,parsonage and 20 or 30 houses have been wiped off the map .If I am reading the map right, Eddy Stobart security gate makes the whole area of that community now private land. Looks from the map Laurence has put a link to shows a lock keepers house next to the lock linking to Weston Canal.The house on the other side of the lock is still inhabited.The only remains of what was a self contained community. One of my student jobs was a bin man in this area so I knew it quite well.but it was 50 years ago.

[Pluto]

A few more photos. The first is the bottom of the flight at Runcorn in 1980, seen from a passing oil tanker.

 

The second shows the line of the R&WC through the Francis Dock warehousing circa 1976.

 

The last shows one of the old ICI steamers being broken up at the lock down from the R&WC into the Weston Canal, c1977.

[nebulae]

When we cruised to the end of the Weston Canal a few years ago,I could not relate how the first lock on the R&W looked now,against my memory of the lock about 1975. I remembered a basin full of sunken boats with a towpath swing bridge across the entrance to the basin .I guess the old ICI steaner would have been one of those boats .I can only think the the basin was swept away to create a winding point for coasters still trading to Castner Kelner .Logicaly,they would have carried on through Weston Point Dock to rejoin the Ship Canal,instead of returning to Weston Marsh Lock? On another point,a new development of houses has been built right on top of the new Runcorn Flight.This flight was filled in then dug out to put a drain from Top Locks to Runcorn dock.There were the remains of some old boats in the wide pounds between the locks.I am not a civil engineer,but I dont think I would like to buy a house built on this disturbed land?

[Señor Chris]

Some good photos along the line of the old flight:

 

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/bridgewater/runcornlocks.htm

[Tacet]

Great thread which much improves my poor understanding; I've walked the line of the old flight and reached the end of the Weston Canal/start of the Runcorn & Western - but the connection between the two ends is not easy to identify.

 

The Pennine site has some good information too - but it does suggest that the approach road to the bridge blocked use of the through route in 1960. John Seymour in Voyage into England struggled up the flight in (from memory) 1963; the story of the reputedly the last passage is told in a fine manner. Since reading this book in the early 1970s I have wanted to follow suit. Time will tell.

[Paul C]

Is there any evidence that the approach road might be dismantled/cleared away after the 2nd bridge is built, or is it a mere 'hope'?

[David Mack]

Is there any evidence that the approach road might be dismantled/cleared away after the 2nd bridge is built, or is it a mere 'hope'?

Part of the plan as I understand it. The old bridge will be retained for local traffic only and the main approaches redirected to the new bridge.

[Paul C]

Part of the plan as I understand it. The old bridge will be retained for local traffic only and the main approaches redirected to the new bridge.

 

I look regularly on the Mersey Gateway website (for the road closures etc) since I drive through the area semi-regularly. There's work going on at all the junctions which will be altered to take into account the new bridge, including some of the approach roads on the Widnes side for the old one, but there's nothing at the Runcorn side approach road either currently going on, or detailed on the website. And as I see it, there would still be a valid need for a junction (therefore access road) off the Western Expressway onto the old bridge.

[sueanddaren]

Update

Outline planning has been applied for for the opening up of the link between the Ship canal and the Bridgewater.

 

http://www.facebook.com/groups/unlockruncornsupporters/

 

A boat lift, a set of traditional locks and an inclined plane is what is proposed.

 

unlockruncorn.org

 

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, sueanddaren said:

Update

Outline planning has been applied for for the opening up of the link between the Ship canal and the Bridgewater.

 

http://www.facebook.com/groups/unlockruncornsupporters/

 

A boat lift, a set of traditional locks and an inclined plane is what is proposed.

 

unlockruncorn.org

 

Bring it on!   Under whose auspice?  C&RT have lots of money Mr Parry said some time ago, oh, yes in connection with a dam I believe.

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Bring it on!   Under whose auspice?  C&RT have lots of money Mr Parry said some time ago, oh, yes in connection with a dam I believe.

 

Put the gripes away, as neither of the waterways are CRT controlled.

 

It's all Peel, under either the Bridgewater or the MSC, so if it ever happens it will cost £250 a go to do the ring from Pomona to Runcorn and over £100 to do Runcorn to Ellesmere Port or Weston Marsh.

[Heartland]

It would be nice to see the original locks restored and these comprise 5 double staircase locks. These were built before the whole line to Preston Brook was finished and the battle to get the intermediate part made has been discussed both by Gordon Biddle and Peter Lead in their books.

 

A ring created to link the Weaver with the Runcorn Locks and controlled by the CRT may be the option, however unlikely it presently would seem. This would be route that most boaters could use and also be away from the Ship Canal, whose rates for boaters have been highlighted in this thread. 

[dmr]

So what is the plan? Locks, a LIFT AND an INCLINED PLANE?   or are these possible alternatives?.

We had a look a couple of year ago and much of the old locks are still there so fixing the locks would be logical.  The wheel thing in Scotland has proved a successful visitor attraction but lifts are big and expensive, would that work in Runcorn? Better to go for locks now than a risky scheme that might never get delivered.

 

Is there any possibility of connecting with the Weaver without involving the ship canal?  This would be so much better, though looking at Google Earth suggests its not really possible without a Rochdale type effort.

 

Sorting out long term low cost access to the ship canal is crucial to this project but not really mentioned, spending a fortune on a lift and just hoping Peel will oblige is not wise, Peel are not like that, in fact it might all be better if CRT could take over the Runcorn arm all the way down to Preston Brook.

 

.................Dave

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, dmr said:

it might all be better if CRT could take over the Runcorn arm all the way down to Preston Brook.

 

And then also up to Castlefield and Leigh ...

[dmr]

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

And then also up to Castlefield and Leigh ...

I believe they have exploratory talks from time to time but I imagine that Peel drive a hard bargain, probably something like "you take over the maintenance cost but we keep all the land, property and anything else that might generate revenue". Peel are a ruthless property development company and that is their only interest in the canal.

 

..................Dave

[Heartland]

Having the CRT take over the Runcorn branch does make sense and there is a precedence in history where the Original act was from the Trent to the Mersey.