Runcorn locks - restoration?

[MoominPapa]

We were visiting relatives on Merseyside last week, and went to look at the works and exhibition for the Mersey Gateway project. This is a new cable-stayed road crossing of the Mersey, upstream of the current road an rail bridges between Runcorn and Widnes. The relevance for canals is that as part of the project, the existing road bridge is going to become a local road, and the approach roads to it are going to be drastically altered and many removed. This will do away with the most immovable barrier to re-opening the Runcorn flight which took the Bridgewater's Runcorn arm down to Runcorn docks.

 

My understanding is that the flight itself was buried and not destroyed: certainly there's a nice green corridor obvious on Google sat-view, and the bridge taking the railway over the former arm seems to be intact. If it's a case of digging out the chambers, bit of pointing and hanging some new gates, that would be great.

 

What's also interesting is where you could connect to at the bottom. The line heads straight into the Ship Canal, which would be an option. I wonder if Peel could be persuaded to make simplified and cheaper arrangements for narrowboats to transit between there and Marsh lock, which is a few miles of the Ship Canal with no intervening locks. That would give an alternative route to the Weaver, and a really nice ring, via the Anderton Boat Lift.

 

Even more interesting is the remains of the Runcorn and Weston canal. That would once have given access between the bottom of the Bridgewater flight and the Weaver Navigation and might provide a route avoiding the ship canal. All that's left is a stump at the Weaver end, and what's missing looks like a couple of miles of difficult territory to thread through Runcorn docks, so that seems less likely.

 

Peel holdings don't have a very good history with pleasure boating. They're sitting on acres of water-space on the other end of the Ship Canal which is unused by big ships (some of it is now cut off by fixed bridges) but haven't seen the opportunity that is there to be taken for marinas and boat use by making Pomona Lock boater-operated and giving access to the higher dock areas on a Bridgewater licence. Maybe the local stakeholders need to start pushing?

 

MP.

 

 

 

ETA: looks like there's some local activity already: http://www.unlockruncorn.org/

Edited November 12, 2015 by MoominPapa

[Scholar Gypsy]

You might want to sign this petition: http://www.unlockruncorn.org/

 

That site also has some more historical information, and confirms your understanding that many of the locks (on the old flight, I think) are still there.

[Pluto]

The locks were excavated in 1975 when new bridge approach roads were built, the drains passing down the locks. This is one of the upper locks:

[nebulae]

Cant see any possibility of restoring the new flight,as a housing estate is built on top of it. This lead directly into Runcorn Docks. No chance for the Runcorn and Weston Canal,as the site is now dock roads. The old flight survives in part and can be walked.The upper section is blocked by the bridge access road(above where the two arms joined) The cottages by this pound are still lived in. The basins above Bridgewater House have been fiilled in. Where the old flight joins the Ship Canal it could be possible to open out the canal,but a road bridge would now be needed for the access road to the college. In theory,it might be possible to enter the Weaver through Weston Point Docks,making a short Ship Canal transit,but these docks now belong to Eddie Stobart.

[DHutch]

I've a Smalley you can lend!

 

 

Daniel

[kevinl]

I wonder if Peel could be persuaded to make simplified and cheaper arrangements for narrowboats to transit between there and Marsh lock, which is a few miles of the Ship Canal with no intervening locks. That would give an alternative route to the Weaver, and a really nice ring, via the Anderton Boat Lift.

 

The new Atlantic Gateway project (nearing completion) means shipping on the MSC is going to increase considerably in the near future, if anything narrowboat access is more likely to be stopped or at least limited so as not to interfere with the commercial shipping.

 

Peel holdings don't have a very good history with pleasure boating.

 

On the contrary they have a very good history with pleasure boats, without public subsidy they've kept the Bridgewater open and profitable and very well used mainly due to large number of GRP boats that kept it alive throughout the 60's, 70's & 80's.

 

giving access to the higher dock areas on a Bridgewater licence.

 

A Bridgewater licence already incudes free use of the Pomona lock and the right to navigate the "Upper Reaches" of the MSC and Salford Quays.

K

[GoodGurl]

We were visiting relatives on Merseyside last week, and went to look at the works and exhibition for the Mersey Gateway project. This is a new cable-stayed road crossing of the Mersey, upstream of the current road an rail bridges between Runcorn and Widnes. The relevance for canals is that as part of the project, the existing road bridge is going to become a local road, and the approach roads to it are going to be drastically altered and many removed. This will do away with the most immovable barrier to re-opening the Runcorn flight which took the Bridgewater's Runcorn arm down to Runcorn docks.

 

My understanding is that the flight itself was buried and not destroyed: certainly there's a nice green corridor obvious on Google sat-view, and the bridge taking the railway over the former arm seems to be intact. If it's a case of digging out the chambers, bit of pointing and hanging some new gates, that would be great.

 

What's also interesting is where you could connect to at the bottom. The line heads straight into the Ship Canal, which would be an option. I wonder if Peel could be persuaded to make simplified and cheaper arrangements for narrowboats to transit between there and Marsh lock, which is a few miles of the Ship Canal with no intervening locks. That would give an alternative route to the Weaver, and a really nice ring, via the Anderton Boat Lift.

 

Even more interesting is the remains of the Runcorn and Weston canal. That would once have given access between the bottom of the Bridgewater flight and the Weaver Navigation and might provide a route avoiding the ship canal. All that's left is a stump at the Weaver end, and what's missing looks like a couple of miles of difficult territory to thread through Runcorn docks, so that seems less likely.

 

Peel holdings don't have a very good history with pleasure boating. They're sitting on acres of water-space on the other end of the Ship Canal which is unused by big ships (some of it is now cut off by fixed bridges) but haven't seen the opportunity that is there to be taken for marinas and boat use by making Pomona Lock boater-operated and giving access to the higher dock areas on a Bridgewater licence. Maybe the local stakeholders need to start pushing?

 

MP.

 

 

 

ETA: looks like there's some local activity already: http://www.unlockruncorn.org/

The dock area just down from marsh lock which is blocked off by a very low bridge (not passable) belongs to eddie Stobart who at one time was going to build a marina in the dock area, whether he still has plans for this is yet to be seen.

[MoominPapa]

On the contrary they have a very good history with pleasure boats, without public subsidy they've kept the Bridgewater open and profitable and very well used mainly due to large number of GRP boats that kept it alive throughout the 60's, 70's & 80's.

Fair point.

 

A Bridgewater licence already incudes free use of the Pomona lock and the right to navigate the "Upper Reaches" of the MSC and Salford Quays.

I wonder why the whole area was effectively deserted of pleasure boats when we were there last year with Peckham Poppy?

 

Maybe because Pomoma lock is not boater operated, so has to be booked?

 

MP.

The dock area just down from marsh lock which is blocked off by a very low bridge (not passable) belongs to eddie Stobart who at one time was going to build a marina in the dock area, whether he still has plans for this is yet to be seen.

The low bridge is a way past Marsh Lock, and just after the junction with the Runcorn and Weston Canal, so it wouldn't affect use of that, if it were otherwise possible.

 

For those wishing to explore to the end, there's loads of room to wind immediately before the low bridge.

 

MP.

[nebulae]

I believe that some of the gates from the new flight were salvaged and used in the restoration of the Upper Avon .It is quite possible to moor opposite the entrance to the Runcorn and Weston Canal opposite the chemical works just before Weston Point Dock. We have moored their a couple of times to walk to the mariners church on the dock .We have never been challenged,but this is now a secure area with a gatehouse and security. Many years ago,the towpath carried along past Runcorn Rowing Club and in front of the chemical works .I remember a basin at the end of the Runcorn and Weston Canal with a swing bridge carrying the towpath.(and several sunk boats) This towpath would have lead into the docks.This basin and bridge are long gone,I think to allow coasters to "wind" after loading/unloading at the chemical works.

[MoominPapa]

It is quite possible to moor opposite the entrance to the Runcorn and Weston Canal opposite the chemical works just before Weston Point Dock. We have moored their a couple of times to walk to the mariners church on the dock .We have never been challenged,but this is now a secure area with a gatehouse and security.

We did the same in 2014, but when we were there this year, there was a bizarre "wall" constructed of pallets loaded with bags of garden-centre peat and compost running between the Weaver and Ship Canal banks. My guess is that it's to prevent vehicle access for fly-tipping, but it's an effective pedestrian barrier too. We liberated a few bags to build a bit of a ramp up one side so we could see over the top, but to cross it you'd need to do the same on the far side to get down again.

 

MP.

[CaptAWOL]

We did the same in 2014, but when we were there this year, there was a bizarre "wall" constructed of pallets loaded with bags of garden-centre peat and compost running between the Weaver and Ship Canal banks. My guess is that it's to prevent vehicle access for fly-tipping, but it's an effective pedestrian barrier too. We liberated a few bags to build a bit of a ramp up one side so we could see over the top, but to cross it you'd need to do the same on the far side to get down again.

 

MP.

I think you'll find that you are guilty of pilfering, that area is used for storage, generally it's usually pallets destined for B&Q

It's unlikely that Weston point docks will ever be used again as a dock, I think that due to contamination it is not cost viable to dredge

[ditchcrawler]

 

and just after the junction with the Runcorn and Weston Canal, .

 

 

Hasnt it been suggested that this would form part of the "Ring" up the Runcorn locks

I think you'll find that you are guilty of pilfering, that area is used for storage, generally it's usually pallets destined for B&Q

It's unlikely that Weston point docks will ever be used again as a dock, I think that due to contamination it is not cost viable to dredge

I don't think he took any away

[MoominPapa]

I think you'll find that you are guilty of pilfering, that area is used for storage, generally it's usually pallets destined for B&Q

This stuff was never going to get to B&Q. It had been there so long that the sun had degraded the plastic bags, which were splitting open and plants were growing out of it.

 

MP.

[J R ALSOP]

Went there this year and had a roam around, only a few pallets left now, very open with lots of views on the side of the ship canal

[Heartland]

It would be useful to see if some form of link could be made from the current terminus of the Runcorn Branch and the Weaver Navigation. Such a link would no doubt be of benefit to boaters and provide an additional access to the Weaver.

[nebulae]

The Ship Canal up to Runcorn Docks is still busy with commercial shipping. I can not see how the Ship Canal Co. can allow anything other than the current arrangements from Eastam to Runcorn. Sadly,the Runcorn and Weston canal no longer exists apart from the first lock down to the Weaver and a few yards of canal.The lock keepers house is still lived in.

[Scholar Gypsy]

Maybe an opportunity for an amphibious ship that could swallow up a group of narrow boats and move them from A to B. Hard to see how that would be a viable commercial proposition!

 

A somewhat extreme example of what I had in mind ...

 

Edited November 17, 2015 by Scholar Gypsy

[Paul C]

I can't see the local residents tolerating the loss of the feeder road which currently blocks the canal route, or any further disruptive roadworks which would be needed to possibly reroute it. They're already pig sick of the current roadworks which are basically flattening and improving all the roudabouts in the local area, the central, western and Daresbury expressways as far as the M56. Remember, there's still going to be about 20% of the traffic going over the old bridge, which is approximately what it was actually designed for.

[Laurence Hogg]

The Ship Canal up to Runcorn Docks is still busy with commercial shipping. I can not see how the Ship Canal Co. can allow anything other than the current arrangements from Eastam to Runcorn. Sadly,the Runcorn and Weston canal no longer exists apart from the first lock down to the Weaver and a few yards of canal.The lock keepers house is still lived in.

 

The Runcorn & Weston canal is virtually complete apart from the last section to where the lock flights were. It still runs into Weston Point docks and the section through the derelict lock is in water for the whole distance behind the docks. reinstatement would not be impossible as there seems to be nothing major in the way if a channel was put back.

[MoominPapa]

The Ship Canal up to Runcorn Docks is still busy with commercial shipping. I can not see how the Ship Canal Co. can allow anything other than the current arrangements from Eastam to Runcorn. Sadly,the Runcorn and Weston canal no longer exists apart from the first lock down to the Weaver and a few yards of canal.The lock keepers house is still lived in.

 

True, but simplified arrangements could be provided from Runcorn to Marsh lock on the Weaver, since that section doesn't include any Ship Canal locks and is short enough that narrowboat transits could be be slotted in between the times when larger vessels are moving. With the re-opening of the Bridgewater locks to the Ship canal, that would be enough to provide a new route to the Weaver, and a new cruising ring.

 

MP.

[nebulae]

Sadly,the docks which ran between the new and old flights,no longer exist.Bridgewater House was on an island at one time. Without these docks,and assuming that the Ship Canal Co would not welcome leisure boats into Runcorn Docks,where the new flight of the Runcorn Locks ended I suppose a route through the land at the rear of the college might allow some old basins to be excavated,aalthough tis looks like it could be developed further in the future. ,I can not see how it would be possible to reopen the Runcorn and Weston Canal .I remember Alf. Hayman,the manager of the Bridgewater Department saying that it was necessary to fill in the end of the canal in order to develop Runcorn Docks. For those not familiar with the area,Runcorn Docks are still a busy port. I have walked as near to the route of the canal as is possible without trespassing in the docks.(high fence).I cant see how this section could be re-instated. Yes,the section behind Weston Point Docks could maybe re-instated.(or traffic routed through Weston Point Dock?) There was a lock somewhere on this section,cant remember where. Cant find any evidence of it on the ground,if I was looking in the right place.I think the last boat through was a member of the Bridgewater Motor boat Club in about 1966.(I think information has been posted on this forum in the past) No idea when the last commercial boat went through .For myself,I greatly regret that this interesting complex of waterways has been lost.

[Laurence Hogg]

Sadly,the docks which ran between the new and old flights,no longer exist.Bridgewater House was on an island at one time. Without these docks,and assuming that the Ship Canal Co would not welcome leisure boats into Runcorn Docks,where the new flight of the Runcorn Locks ended I suppose a route through the land at the rear of the college might allow some old basins to be excavated,aalthough tis looks like it could be developed further in the future. ,I can not see how it would be possible to reopen the Runcorn and Weston Canal .I remember Alf. Hayman,the manager of the Bridgewater Department saying that it was necessary to fill in the end of the canal in order to develop Runcorn Docks. For those not familiar with the area,Runcorn Docks are still a busy port. I have walked as near to the route of the canal as is possible without trespassing in the docks.(high fence).I cant see how this section could be re-instated. Yes,the section behind Weston Point Docks could maybe re-instated.(or traffic routed through Weston Point Dock?) There was a lock somewhere on this section,cant remember where. Cant find any evidence of it on the ground,if I was looking in the right place.I think the last boat through was a member of the Bridgewater Motor boat Club in about 1966.(I think information has been posted on this forum in the past) No idea when the last commercial boat went through .For myself,I greatly regret that this interesting complex of waterways has been lost.

 

If you have walked the route how did you miss the lock? Its at the end of the navigation just approx. 300yards south of West rd, gates (remains of) still intact as it joins the Weaver Navigation.

[nebulae]

Yes,I know where that lock is .I was refering to the next lock up on the Runcorn and Weston. Unless my memory is faulty,there was a lock either behind Weston Point Docks or a bit farther towards Runcorn Docks. It is stuck in my memory that the last leisure boat through got stuck at this lock and had to call on the lock keeper(Mr.Cooper?).It is a long time ago,50 years in fact,so I cant be sure.

[ditchcrawler]

 

The Runcorn & Weston canal is virtually complete apart from the last section to where the lock flights were. It still runs into Weston Point docks and the section through the derelict lock is in water for the whole distance behind the docks. reinstatement would not be impossible as there seems to be nothing major in the way if a channel was put back.

This is from the IWA web page

"There have been studies commissioned into the redevelopment of Runcorn docks which might allow an even a more ambitious objective. The Runcorn & Weston Canal used run alongside the docks and if this connection could be re-established it would create a new cruising ring joining the River Weaver to the the Bridgewater Canal without having to venture onto the Manchester Ship Canal. The line of the former Runcorn & Weston Canal does have some obstructions but a redevelopment plan could easily incorporate an alternative route."

[Pluto]

Yes,I know where that lock is .I was refering to the next lock up on the Runcorn and Weston. Unless my memory is faulty,there was a lock either behind Weston Point Docks or a bit farther towards Runcorn Docks. It is stuck in my memory that the last leisure boat through got stuck at this lock and had to call on the lock keeper(Mr.Cooper?).It is a long time ago,50 years in fact,so I cant be sure.

This is Parr Lock, which I think was its name, in 1976.